Leaderboard

I don't know if there is such a being as Allah. If he/it exists, he/it may be a Jinn or some other sort of demon. But Allah is not Krishna. Allah is not Rama. Allah is not Yahweh. Allah is not God.

Fayarus, Do you really think people from other religions who call Allah by other names like Rama or Jesus going to hell?It would be interesting to know whatIslam says about other practises. Very best regards from Joy [This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 07-22-2002).]

Is Mohammed really a prophet ??? No he is the biggest child abuser, surpassing every one, a biggest rascal as confirmed in the bhavishya puran, what is the fun of marrying the 4 year old girl, I ask Fayarus ?? whatever deeds he has done, shows that he was the most lusty person on the earth. marrying so many people just to gratify his libido. Does all these symtoms belong to a prophet ?? Not to us atleast, but may be to thugs, looters, hooliguns etc. to whom he has preached his religion, to destroy the mankind. Islam teaches to kill animals & to eat it to satisfy their toung, to kill non muslims, just because they are not following islam. presently muslims are the real trouble-maker through the world, wherever they go they just create problem for others in the name of jihad, they came to india attacked it alooted them killed so many people, raped many women, does islam preaches all these things ?? They are the most horrible creatures on this planet. Hari Bol, Sushil [This message has been edited by sushil_kanoria (edited 07-21-2002).]

Hare Krishna, Fayarus, U asked many questions on Ramayana and on stories about Lord Shiva. Every Hindu knows that those acts apparently appears to be human in nature. According to vedic religion GOD himself comes among humans in the form of a human being or other creatures to teach men and women the true way of dharma. As far as Ramayana is concerned GOD himself appeared as per the wishes of the DEVAS(divine beings) to protect not only men but this whole universe from the evil which the race of rakshasas(Ravana's race) had caused. Rakshasas are not humans or Devas. Since he took a human form(only apparently) he had to behave like one. It does not mean HE is an ordinary human being. Only the best among men really know who HE IS. Fayarus, you can believe whatever u want. But your hypocricy and insincerity to know vedic religion comes to light always. You asked for the proof of bridge built by Lord Rama. Atleast 6 years back I saw on Sun TV(Tamil TV) that somebody had found a bridge made of stone (pebbles) near the coast of Rameshwaram. I do not have more information on this. Let me ask you a question. Did you ever ask yourself for the proof that whether Quran is really from GOD ??? Is Mohammed really a prophet ??? What proof do you have. I have the following reasons it is not from GOD. My aim is not to hurt anybody. But U asked for it. ------ Is GOD so desperate to seduce people with presents of virgin women and even immortal boys. http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/noble/nobae056.htm 56. Al-Wâqi'ah 10. And those foremost [(in Islâmic Faith of Monotheism and in performing righteous deeds) in the life of this world on the very first call for to embrace Islâm,] will be foremost (in Paradise). 11. These will be those nearest to Allâh. 12. In the Gardens of delight (Paradise). 13. A multitude of those (foremost) will be from the first generations (who embraced Islâm). 14. And a few of those (foremost) will be from the later time (generations). 15. (They will be) on thrones woven with gold and precious stones, 16. Reclining thereon, face to face. 17. They will be served by immortal boys, 18. With cups, and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, 19. Wherefrom they will get neither any aching of the head, nor any intoxication. 20. And fruit; that they may choose. 21. And the flesh of fowls that they desire. 22. And (there will be) Houris (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), 23. Like unto preserved pearls. 24. A reward for what they used to do. There are many such verses. I do not wish to go through all that. ------- 8. Al-Anfâl 12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes." So Allah, the almighty GOD himself, is asking (whatever this particular situation may be) his followeres to kill (striking at neck) those disbelievers and then smite their fingers and toes. This looks like a way of torturing the victims to me. Why is this GOD of yours so hell bent on torturing the disbelievers. Is he so unable to convince the poor human beings that he is the only GOD, that he chooses to convince them by torturing them. In Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna teaches Arjuna to fight against against those who cause adharma, but never tells Arjuna to torture and terrorize his enemies like it is described in quran. By the way why not Allah himself kill these disbelievers. What is the necessity to send a messenger(Mohammed) and then create followers through him and then ask these folllowers to kill them. It all seems foolish to me. One strike from a lightning will suffice.

"I can't believe your words. Indian trend to connect all kinds of civilizations to themselves. Chinese are the same as you. So I believe all other peoples are the same, too." Not true my friend. It is not the Indian trend to connect all other civilisations with theirs. If Indians are one thing, they are (generally speaking) fairly ignorant about their own ancient civilsation. Only now are there people doing some research into ancient Indian civilsation. For too long, people have clung to useless theories e.g. aryan invasion hypothesis. But anyway, the truth will emerge. BTW, you are free to disbelieve what i have posted. I am not asking to believe in it. But do me one favour, read the article and others, do a bit of ground research, and then decide to completely refute these ideas.

Vedic Past Of Pre-Islamic Arabia By a Vedic Researcher Many centuries before prophet Muhammad and the advent of Islam, Arabia or Arabistan was an extremely rich and glorious center of Vedic civilization. In this article, I will prove to you point by point that pre-Islamic Arabia was in fact a flourishing civilization which revered Vedic culture. In fact the Black Stone at the Kaaba is the Lingam of Lord Shiva. Millions of Muslims kiss this sacred emblem of Lord Shiva every day. In learning about this most ancient heritage, let's begin with the word Arabistan itself. Arabistan is derived from the original Sanskrit term Arvasthan which means The Land of Horses. Since time immemorial proponents of the Vedic culture used to breed exceptional horses in this region. Thus eventually the land itself began to be called Arva (Horses) -Sthan (place). The people who lived in this land were called Semitic. Semitic comes from the Sanskrit word Smritic. Arabs followed the ancient Vedic Smritis such as Manu-Smriti as their revered religious guides and thus they were identified as Smritic which has been corrupted into Semitic. At that time the Uttarapath (Northern Highway) was the international highway to the North of India. It was via Uttarapath that Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries drew their spiritual, educational and material sustenance from India. Besides, this Sea-links were formed with India at least 800 years before the advent of Islam. Basra was the ancient gateway to India because it was at this port that the Arab lands recieved Indian goods and visitors. At that time the spoken language was Sanskrit, which later dwindled into the local variation that we now call Arabic. The proof of this is that thousands of words that were derived from Sanskrit still survive in Arabic today. Here is a sampling of some: Sanskrit, Arabic, English: Sagwan, Saj, Teakwood/ Vish, Besh, Poison/Anusari, Ansari, Follower/ Shishya, Sheikh, Disciple/ Mrityu, Mout, Mortal/ Pra-Ga-ambar, Paigambar, One from heaven/ Maleen, Malaun, Dirty, soiled,MALevolent/ Aapati, Aafat, Unfortunate, Karpas, Kaifas, Cotton/ Karpur, Kafur, Camphor/ Pramukh, Barmak, Prominent Chief/Naranga, Aranja, Orange. Even various kinds of swords were referred to as Handuwani, Hindi, Saif-Ul-Hind, Muhannid and Hinduani. The Sanskrit Astronomical treatise Brahma-Sphuta-Siddhanta in Arabic translation is known as Sind-Hind, while another treatise Khanda-Khadyaka was called Arkand. Mathematics itself was called Hindisa . The Arabs derived technical guidance in every branch of study such as astronomy, mathematics and physics from India. A noted scholar of history, W.H. Siddiqui notes: "The Arab civilization grew up intensively as well as extensively on the riches of Indian trade and commerce. Nomadic Arab tribes became partially settled communities and some of them lived within walled towns practised agriculture and commerce, wrote on wood and stone, feared the gods and honored the kings." Some people wrongly believe that Arabs used the word Hindu as a term of contemptuous abuse. Nothing could be further from the truth. The people of pre-Islamic Arabia held Hinduism in great esteem as evidenced from the fact that they would endearingly call their most attractive and favourite daughters as Hinda and Saifi Hindi. The fact that Arabs regarded India as their spiritual and cultural motherland long before the damaging influence of Islam is corroborated by the following poem which mentions each one of the four Vedas by name: (Note The English translation) "Aya muwarekal araj yushaiya noha minar HIND-e Wa aradakallaha manyonaifail jikaratunOh the divine land of HIND (India) (how) very blessed art thou! Because thou art the chosen of God blessed with knowledgeWahalatijali Yatun ainana sahabi akha-atun jikra Wahajayhi yonajjalur -rasu minal HINDATUN That celestial knowledge which like four lighthouses shone in such brilliance - through the (utterances of) Indian sages in fourfold abundance.Yakuloonallaha ya ahal araf alameen kullahum Fattabe-u jikaratul VEDA bukkun malam yonajjaylatunGod enjoins on all humans, follow with hands down The path the Vedas with his divine precept lay down." "Wahowa alamus SAMA wal YAJUR minallahay Tanajeelan Fa-e-noma ya akhigo mutiabay-an Yobassheriyona jatunBursting with (Divine) knowledge are SAM & YAJUR bestowed on creation, Hence brothers respect and follow the Vedas, guides to salvationWa-isa nain huma RIG ATHAR nasayhin Ka-a-Khuwatun Wa asant Ala-udan wabowa masha -e-ratunTwo others, the Rig and Athar teach us fraternity, Sheltering under their lustre dispels darkness till eternity" This poem was written by Labi-Bin-E- Akhtab-Bin-E-Turfa who lived in Arabia around 1850 B.C. That was 2300 years before Mohammed!!! This verse can be found in Sair- Ul-Okul which is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It was compiled in 1742 AD under order of the Turkish Sultan Salim. That the Vedas were the religious scriptures to which the Arabs owed allegiance as early as 1800 B.C. proves not only the antiquity of the Vedas but also the existence of Indian rule over the entire region from the Indus to the Mediterranean, because it is a fact of history that the religion of the ruler is practised by his subjects. Vedic culture was very much alive just before the birth of Muhammad. Again let's refer to the Sair-Ul-Okul. The following poem was written by Jirrham Bintoi who lived 165 years before the prophet Muhammed. It is in praise of India's great King Vikramaditya who had lived 500 years before Bintoi. "Itrasshaphai Santul Bikramatul phehalameen Karimun Bihillahaya Samiminela Motakabbenaran Bihillaha Yubee qaid min howa Yaphakharu phajgal asari nahans Osirim Bayjayholeen Yaha sabdunya Kanateph natephi bijihalin Atadari Bilala masaurateen phakef Tasabahu. Kaunni eja majakaralhada walhada Achimiman, burukan, Kad, Toluho watastaru Bihillaha yakajibainana baleykulle amarena Phaheya jaunabil amaray Bikramatoon" - (Sair-ul-Okul, Page 315) "Fortunate are those who were born during King Vikram's reign, he was a noble generous, dutiful ruler devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time, We Arabs oblivious of divinity were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting & torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for its life in the cruel jaws of a wolf, we Arabs were gripped by ignorance. The whole country was enveloped in a darkness as intense as on a New moon night. But the present dawn & pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favor of that noble king Vikram whose benevolence did not lose sight of us foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred culture amongst us and sent scholars from his own land whose brilliance shone like that of the sun in our country. These scholars & preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made aware of the presence of god, introduced to his secret knowledge & put on the road to truth, had come to our country to initiate us in that culture & impart education." Thus we can see that Vedic religion and culture were present in Pre-Islamic Arabia as early as 1850 B.C., and definitely present at the time of Mohammed's birth. In his book Origines, Volumes 3 & 4", Sir W. Drummond adds "Tsabaism was the universal language of mankind when Abraham received his call, their doctrines were probably extended all over the civilized nations of Earth." Tsabaism is merely the corruption of the word Shaivism which is Vedic religion. On page 439 of this book, Sir Drummond mentions some of gods of pre-Islamic Arabs, all of which were included in the 360 idols that were consecrated in the Kaba shrine before it was raided and destroyed by Muhammad and his followers. Here are some of the Vedic deities and their original Sanskrit names: Arabic SanskritEnglish Al-Dsaizan,Shani,Saturn/Al-Ozi or Ozza,Oorja,Divine energy/Al-Sharak,Shukra,Venus/Auds,Uddhav-Bag,Bhagwan,God/Bajar,Vajra,Indra's thunderbolt/Kabar,Kuber, God of wealth/Dar,Indra,King of gods/Dua Shara,Deveshwar, Lord of the gods,Habal,Bahubali,Lord of strength,Madan,Madan,God of love/Manaph, Manu,First Man/Manat, Somnath, Lord Shiv/Obodes,Bhoodev, Earth/Razeah,Rajesh,King of kings/Saad,Siddhi,God of Luck/Sair,Shree,Goddess of wealth/Sakiah,Shakrah,Indra/ Sawara,Shiva-Eshwar, God Shiva/Yauk, Yaksha, Divine being/Wad,Budh,Mercury/ The Kaba temple which was misappropriated and captured by Muslims was originally an International Vedic Shrine. The ancient Vedic scripture Harihareswar Mahatmya mentions that Lord Vishnu's footprints are consecrated in Mecca. An important clue to this fact is that Muslims call this holy precint Haram which is a deviation of the Sanskrit term Hariyam, i.e. the precint of Lord Hari alias Lord Vishnu. The relevant stanza reads: "Ekam Padam Gayayantu MAKKAYAANTU Dwitiyakam Tritiyam Sthapitam Divyam Muktyai Shuklasya Sannidhau" The allusion is to the Vamana incarnation of Lord Vishnu whose blessed feet were consecrated at three holy sites, namely Gaya, Mecca and Shukla Teertha. Worshipping such carved, holy foot impressions is a holy Vedic custom which convert Muslims are inadvertently perpetuating. But in doing this they delude themselves and mislead others that these foot-impressions which are on reverential display in several mosques and tombs around the world are in fact Muhammad's own. There are several snags in this argument. Firstly worshipping a foot -impression amounts to idolatry and should therefore be taboo for a true Muslim. Secondly Muhhamad disclaimed having performed any miracles. Therefore there can be no foot-impression of his on stone. Thirdly foot-impressions must always be in pairs like shoes. Yet in most of these shrines, it is usually a single footprint which suggests that Muhammad walked on only one foot. Another question that crops up is whether the foot-impression is of the same size and foot in all the shrines. The fact appears to be that when the Vedic Kaba shrine in Mecca was invaded by Muhammad, the pairs of foot impressions of Vedic deities there were plundered and later traded to the gullible and devout as Muhammad's own footprints for some favour, reward or personal gain by unscrupulous clergy. That is why they are single and not in pairs. The Black Stone which is the Shiv Emblem (also known as Sange Aswad which is a corrupted form of the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta--meaning non-white stone) still survives in the Kaba as the central object of Islamic veneration. The Shiv Ling at The Kaba. It was broken in seven places and now is held together by a silver band. All other Vedic Idols could be found buried in the precincts or trampled underfoot in labyrinthine subterranean corridors if archaeological excavations are undertaken. The Black Stone has been badly mutilated, its carved base has disappeared and the stone itself is broken at seven places. It's parts are now held together by a silver band studded with silver nails. It lies half buried in the South Eastern portion of the Kaba Wall. The term Kaba itself is a corruption of the Sanskrit word Gabha (Garbha + Graha) which means Sanctum. In addition, in the inscriptions from Hajja and its neighborhood was found a votive vessel dedicated by members of two tribes called Rama and Somia. Rama and Soma are Vedic deities, Rama is of the Solar dynasty and Soma is of the Lunar Dynasty. The moon god was called by various names in pre-Islamic times, one of them was Allah. Allah had 3 children, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. Al-Lat and Al-Uzza were both feminine deities. Alla is another name for the Hindu goddess Durga. It is obvious that the goddess Al-Lat was Alla (Durga) and Al-Uzza was Oorja (energy or life force also known as Shakti). Manat was none other than Somnath which is another name for Lord Shiva. One significant point to note that Soma in Sanskrit means Moon and Nath means Lord. Thus the Kaba itself was dedicated to the Moon God Somnath alias Shiv and the word Somnath was corrupted to Manat. The famous Black Stone is none other than the ShivLing of Makkeshwar alias Mecca. Lord Shiva is always shown with a crescent Moon on his head and every Shiva temple is supposed to have a sacred water spring representing the Ganges. The Crescent Moon pinnacle of the Kaba and the Zamzam spring (actually Zamza from Ganga) are irrefutable testaments to the Vedic origins of the Kaba. Maqam-E-Ibrahim or more appropriately the pedestal of Brahma. Muslims from all over the world pay homage to this shrine. This shrine is actually the pedestal of Brahma. Notice that the word, Ibrahim is actually a corruption of the word, Brahma. The octogonal grill which is a Vedic design, protects the holy footprints which represent the start of the creation nearly 2000 million years ago. Before it was captured by the Muslims it was an international shrine of the Vedic trinity. In fact the names of the holiest of Muslim cities Mecca and Medina come from the Sanskrit words Makha-Medini which means the land of Fire-Worship. Even the most ancient names of these 2 cities were Mahcorava- which came from Mahadeva (Lord Shiva) and Yathrabn - which came from Yatra-Sthan (place of pilgrimage). Islam came into being about 1372 years ago. It is well known that over 7500 years ago, at the time of the Mahabharat War, Kurus ruled the world. The scions of that family administered the different regions. Prophet Muhammed himself and his family were adherents of Vedic culture. The Encyclopedia Islamia admits as much when it says: "Muhammed's grandfather and uncles were hereditary priests of the Kaba temple which housed 360 idols!" According to Arab traditions, Muhammad is a title. We do not know what name his parents had given him. We do however know that the central object of worship which survives at the Kaba today is a Shivling. That was allowed to remain there because that was the faceless family deity of Muhammad's family. One of the original names of Lord Shiv is Mahadev (The Great God) therefore it is entirely possible Muhammad came from Mahadev. This appears fairly certain because the Arabs still have a Mahadevi sect. Moreover the title Mehdi of a Muslim chief is also a malpronounciation of the term Mahadeva. According to Sanskrit etymology the term Muhammad implies 'a person of great inspiration' - 'Mahan Madah yasya assau Muhammadah' In a hostile sense it also implies 'a person of a proud and haughty temperament'. The Qurayshi tribe into which Mohammed was born was particularly devoted to Allah and and the three children of the Moon God. Therefore when Muhammad decided to spread his own Divine religion, he took innumerable aspects of the daily Vedic culture that surrounded him and applied them to suit the temperment of his era.

Is the forum long gone,, I've been new here for a while and I just notice the activities on this forum and see that most of the topics and reply here are beyond or more than 5 years old, I wish I am wrong because I find this forum very nice and informative.