jaguar

I know what u felt coz I had similar experience. But my contention is that if u don't have mind and intellect how do you think. Consiousness alone cannot think just as Conciousness cannot see without the sense of seeing. Ofcourse needless to say, the the Mind and Intellect may not necc. look like our brain or heart or for that matter they may not be seperate but intrinsic. Considering the unimaginable definations given to describe 'The Self', it becomes even more difficult to explain this point. But while meditating, I could feel the neccesity of 'The Self' to have a Mind and Intellect though they are distinct from Pure Consiciousness but still there somewhere in subtle form otherwise 'The Self' could not have thought or had a desire to create this world as the Vedas say. Subtle form or Subtlest it has to be there. The reason this thread came up was, contrary to my observations in meditations, the quoted Text in the opening message claims contrary and wanted to know if someone had been this deep and have found the perspective which I feel is diff. of the author of those text from mine only, rest we both agree.

Yes I have that too by Baba's grace and will.

Avadhoot Baba Shivananji is my Guru. I have Sanjeevani Diksha from him.

Swami Sukhabhananda (www.prasannatrust.org) comes regularly on Astha and Sanskar on sun around 9:00 pm on Sanskar generall wearing Saffron Kurta and sometimes Saffron Shawl. On somedays(gen. weekdays) on Astha at 11:00 pm (see astha timetable ticker). In anycase the abv website shud give u ample details. What I like abv swamiji is his authentic, well research, non-dogmatic teachings. U have to hear him to know what am talking abt.

Translations moving around on the web is by one John Richards and there is another by Bart Marshall(there cud be more). Bart marshall is silent on "I am not the body or the mind or the intellect nor are they mine" but Richard's translation spells this out. Bart Marshall says "I am not the body or the mind" which we all agree and know. hmmm so there is difference in translation either purposely or by mistake. In either case, personally I would not like to go with something I don't agree with until I experience it myself. I would want to mediate on it, "experience this myself" only then I will believe it. If I start reading 100s of books,scriptures,articles and opinions, I will end up nowhere. So have decided to be with Swami Sukhbodhana's explanation about Vedanta which incl. Adi + Gita in it + the fact that I have experienced it myself in meditation so I can definately vouch for it to be true until another experience comes forth which can stand the test.

Yes I agree to all that u mentioned above BUT my question was NOT on the identity of the Soul but on the identify or ownership of other aspects particularly Mind and Intellect. Ego as Ramana Maharishi puts it is false self or the "I" thought wrongly associated with the body and material aspects is anyways not my concern, but Mind and Intellect are more important to discuss as most books tend to only concentrate and go ga ga over soul completely belittling these other aspects particularly Mind and Intellect. Remember in such discussions, we always have the attitude that Mind and Intellect are polluted, unholy, corrupt, bad, sinful etc etc and thus we tend to discard them outright but forget that there are pious Mind and Intellect to. If not so, why do u even have to control and Mind and the Intellect as we have already assue them to be unworthly and all the text loudly claim that Self cannot be known by Mind or Intellect as it is above them. So I specifically want to know the Position or relevance of these subtle aspects in the travel of Self Realisation. I know they are not the Self but we need to control them if they are not mine, not me, completely unholy where as the soul is Holy blah blah, why bring it under control? if it is such a Taboo. This should automaticall strike a bell in ur Mind that they are relevant but what and how? This is the subject matter of this Thread.

but if Ashtavakra Gita is Advait and Adi Shankara being the proponent of Advait, how can their views be different. The former says "Mind and Intellect are not mine" and Adi says they are mine but not me.

Sonic Yogi said: As far as what is "ours" not even our own soul is really ours as the soul is a separated energy of Krishna and is therefore technically his. So it effectively means that you don't exists at all independently or are not Eternal-Eternal but are relatively Eternal i.e as long as this Universe or Kalpa exists and thus on Pralay you don't exist, which contradicts that the Soul is Unborn and external and will thus never die as we never know we will be in next Kalpa as we will never be we. Infact if u try to read it, you can say everything in the Bhagwat Gita from the Advaita point of view also. Simply reply the "I" in BG that Krishna says to the "Self"/Soul. Ofcourse Krishna is a Self Realised Soul and thus we can view it that the "I" in BG is refered to the Self/Soul and not the Krishna the Person/Entity merely.

Actually ur answer is in direct contrast with "sambya". You say In dvaita, one says, " I am not the mind and intellect, nor they are mine. In advaita, one says, " I am not the mind and intellect but they are mine." sambya says so i think "I am not the Mind or Intellect, but they are Mine" would be a dualistic explanation . and "I am not the Mind or Intellect, Nor are they Mine" is a perfect non dualistic explanation . more so because ashtavakra gita is a advaitist text . So for the benefit of all let me make my doubt more clear, I AGREE THAT "I am not the mind nor the intellect". Till here I agree. I also agree that I am the soul. BUT because of difference of opinion, of the quoted texts, one of them ashtavakra "further" says "..that nor are mind and intellect mine" whereas adi shankara, swami sukhbodhana, and many be more say "...mind and intellect are mine though I am not them". This is my crux of confusion so if u now read the doubt, my question has two part of which I have already clarified that I 1000% agree I am the soul, but the second part of causing confusion. On further pondering I discover that they are saying the same thing but from different perspective. Please correct me if I am wrong but due to the fact that in advait Soul == God/ParaBharman, I am the soul and thus God and since nothing exists in this world other than the self, the mind and intellect are created out of me say but my power etc but they are not me. Swami Sukhbodhananda puts this beautifully saying that "This Shirt is Mine, but I am not this shirt", This car is mine but I am not the car, This House is mine but I am not the House, and if you still don't understand then "This donkey is mine,..." you get the picture. Now coming to Dvaita, it is said that Krishna is the Supreme and Mind and Intellect are made from this Powers which if you re-read my above paragraph is the same thing from different perspective. The only subtle but critical point that now comes up now is that if though we have bringed the gap in perspective reg. Mind and Intellect and Ego blah blah, we are not able to bridge the gap between Soul as per Advait(God) and Dvaita(Soul is one of the power of God Krishna). hmmm interesting discussion, but we need to iron this out because if Self is the Ultimate truth, then there can simply be no two Truths.

Hello all, Regarding the Self, there are contradictory opinions on Mind and Intellect. Some say that "I am not the Mind or Intellect, Nor are they Mine" (AshtaVakra Gita), and some say "I am not the Mind or Intellect, but they are Mine" (Swami Sukhbodhananda who often quote Adi Shankara besides Bhagwat Gita) and thus I presume Adi Shankar and/or Bhagwat Gita says so. I agree to the first part of both but the second part confuses me. Since we all agree Mind is powerful(otherwise why do u need to bring it under control) and important, I wanted to know which one of the above two is true. If someone can quote some Authentic Text(pls no round round discussion like Mind is just a collection of thoughts) and/or put forth a more logical explanation to the perspective the authors to the above texts are coming from then I would be further Enlightened.

Thanks vipvats, Please PM me ur emailid.

Hi, I am jobless and facing tough financial and personal difficultities from the past one year. Please look at my Horoscope and tell me why and how to come out of it. I am jobless since july 2008 and still no hope. Please it is a request to help. DOB: 27/11/1976 TOB: 16:10. (4:10 pm) Place: Mumbai. Thanks and God bless you.

Maha Mrityunjay Mantra is a mantra that has potency beyond comprehension to heal. It has powers to even bring dead to life and it the final solution to anyone fearing death. You can keep an audio mp3 playing to feel its usefulness.

can you please detail more about what is Sri vidya, benefits/powers etc and how it has helped you.

No one to help?