Bee

He is not half educated because he said so... See...spiritual leaders" who are disturbed by the tides of material existence cannot know Him fully" http://vedabase.net/iso/13/en1

Hey bhaktajan. First of all I am not a "himself and his homeboys" because I am a girl. And I never heard of the word "CONHERENTCY". I even tried to look in the dictionary. I don't care if you call Allah as Krishna, but to put down the rest demi-God worshippers...well its very unsettling... . You have to read the covers of some of those books, thats where it says Krishna is Allah, Buddha, Jenovah... And peeps, forgive me if I come across as angry because actually I am but at something else... not having a good day and I know I shouldn't take it out on people....but I still like to debate and these debates usually upset everyone.

Dear Mike, it is not as easy as you think. To me they are all forms of Brahman, regardless of whether Prabhupada thinks I am a “mayavad”. I cannot separate them in my mind. I always thought that Krishna is Brahman (the actual source) and you can worship Brahman in any form like Krishna. But reading the Gita (more specially the “as it is” version) I came across something entirely different to what I have been taught from birth. This is what I was saying. I agree with you, but I have encountered a whole host of people on the net who will call this form of worship “mayavad”, and I am inclined to think majority of these comments are coming from ISKCON followers because they keep quoting Prabhupada. I have never encountered such comments before. If I believe something different to them, then I am automatically a “mayavad” and foolish. I always thought Hinduism meant that “all paths are equally valid and true” but obviously this is not the case according to many Hindus. Thank you. I never disagreed with that because Lord Krishna is Brahman and everything emanates from Brahman. Shiva, Durga, etc are also Brahman. They are all supreme. You need not go further than that. The Rig Veda says that "Truth is one, the sages call it by many names." What troubles me most about ISKCON is that they put Jehovah, Buddha, Allah up there as being the same as Krishna but the rest are unintelligent, mayavadi worshippers of “demi-Gods” or Devas. Well I will continue to remain unintelligent.

Ufff , seriously this is confusing . I give up. I have tried my very best to seperate these Gods in my head but I cannot. Refering to them as demi-Gods is also very demeaning. Yes I cringe too everytime I hear it. For one thing, my family are not Vaishnavas. They worship one God, not for any material benefit. My favourite God is Krishna, but the problem arises when I have to accept that my family are foolish and stupid for worshiping another God. I cannot think of them like that. For me, this is like trying to take joy from a faith which tells me that my good parents are going to hell for worshipping the wrong "God". Where is the spirtuality/peace in this? I am no better than my parents, and I do not want to end up with an ego over my head saying I am superior and more clever than my parents for worshipping right God over "demi-God". And to be honest, I have noticed some people with such ego over their head. Sorry about the rant there but this is seriously very confusing.

There is nothing wrong with debate, thats what a forum is for, and for someone like me who is clueless. In the Rig Veda it says "Truth is One, but sages call It by many names." I just find it wrong that ISKCON put Allah, Jehovah, Buddha up there with Krishna but Shiva and others are put down to "demi-god" status. I don't know the mind of Prabhupada so I can't comment on him but his aim was after all to promote Krishna Consciousness. And I have also myself questioned the authenticity of the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharta because it does not belong to the canon of vedas or upanishads. I don't claim to know or understand the truth, why else would I be here.

Different stories seem to glorify different Gods as supreme. Puranas (which inlcude the Srimad Bhagavatam) are actually not authentic as I have been told. Only the Vedas and Upanishads are authentic Hindu scriptures . Puranas were written for those who could not grasp the philosophy of Hinduism and the stories may contain hidden meanings in order to make it easy for others to grasp. Brahman is the creator, preserver and destroyer itself. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are just different names for Brahman. So yes, all of them are Supreme because all of them are one (Brahman). Put it this way: What is Brahman without Shakti What is Shiva (Brahman) without Parvati (his Shakti) What is Vishnu (Brahman) without Lakshmi (his Shakti) What is Brahma (Brahman) without Saraswati (His Shakti) Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma are names for Brahman. And Parvati, Lakshmi and Saraswati are the names for Shakti.

What does this mean? I would appreciate definitions

Thank you for clearing that up. I did not say that Brahman is impersonal or personal. As for your quote, please go to my quote as I have changed it a bit. This is why I was so confused. " Bhagavad-gītā 7.23 anta-vat — perishable; tu — but; phalam — fruit; teṣām — their; tat — that; bhavati — becomes; alpa-medhasām — of those of small intelligence; devān — to the demigods; deva-yajaḥ — the worshipers of the demigods; yānti — go; mat — My; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yānti — go; mām — to Me; api — also. Emphasis is on the word “also” at the end. It seems to say that “those of small intelligence worship devas and their fruits are temporary and limited. Those who worship devas go to the devas and my devotees go to me also. It seems as though he is calling himself a deva. So you are right, Prabhupada has called all the others demigods in order to promote Krishna Consciousness. I think that maybe its trying to say that one shouldn't approach other devas thinking they'll derive different benefits from them because they are ultimately getting their benefits from the same source -- which is Brahman (who is also the source of the devas and sages including Krishna)

Hello, I’m sure this question has been asked many times but I need some clarification because I am very confused. Bhagavad-gītā 7.23 SYNONYMS anta-vat — perishable; tu — but; phalam — fruit; teṣām — their; tat — that; bhavati — becomes; alpa-medhasām — of those of small intelligence; devān — to the demigods; deva-yajaḥ — the worshipers of the demigods; yānti — go; mat — My; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yānti — go; mām — to Me; api — also. Can you clarify the use of the word “also” at the end? It seems to say that “those of small intelligence worship demigods (devas) and their fruits are temporary and limited. Those who worship demigods go to the demigods (devas) and my devotees go to me also.” I do not fully understand the meaning behind demi-god. I have taken it to mean that one should not approach other Gods thinking that they are separate than Brahman (because Brahman is Krishna and so is Shiva, Kali etc). If you think you are going to get more benefit by worshiping Shiva, Kali, than by worshiping Brahman (the source) then you just entered demi-god worship but if you think they are same with different names and forms then it is not demigod worship because you know that all your prayers are being answered from the same source. I know that Puranas like Sriman Bhagvatam glorify Vishnu as the supreme being. But I have also been told that Puranas are not authentic scriptures and the real scriptures are Vedas, Upanishads and Geeta. I was told Puranas were written for those people who could not grasp the deep seated philosophy of our Dharma so simple stories with hidden meanings were given to the illiterates, farmers, etc in order to help them understand the concepts better. I don't know how true this is but many other writings seem to glorify other gods as well. Edit : Sorry for making this so long. Hope I didn't confuse anyone...

Yes but did they force anyone to listen them in the middle of the street? No. What I mean is that it is a bad idea to preach to those who don't want to listen to it. I hope they don't start going door to door. Religion is not a business product and I wish they'd stop treating it like one.

Swami Narayan is supreme to those who worship him most, Krishna is supreme to the Hare Krishnas who worship him most, Shiva is Supreme to the Shivates who worship him most. Most of them focus all their energy on one God. To me they are Hindus if that is how they want to define themselves, but I dislike the fact that they preach. It just doesn't seem like a Hindu kind of thing to do.

I don't claim to know the truth but I go by my understanding. And maybe you're right with your interpretation and I can’t understand it. But you can’t see through the eyes of others either so you'll never understand why things makes sense to them. If I go to one Guru, he will tell me one thing. If I go to another, he will tell me another thing. People interpret scriptures in different ways and this does not only happen in Hinduism. Why else do you think there are many denominations in Christianity and Islam? Each denomination will tell you they have authority over the truth. If you go to a priest of one denomination, he will tell you one thing. If you go to another, he will tell you something else.

Because cleverclogs, those of us who don't see things your way are not really clever . We should all come to the same conclusions as yours with our interpretations or else there must be something wrong with our brains.

But you cannot assume that the scriptwriter was an atheist. And we cannot assume that all these people targetting Vaishnavas are atheists. Most people have a problem with missionaries. Krishna missionaries would have a problem with missionaries of other faiths, just as a Christian missionary would have a problem with missionaries of other faiths. Neither want to be preached at about alternative religions but both want to preach theirs. Atheists are mocked all the time for being “satan” worshippers. They are officially the most despised and distrusted minority in the United States. But as long as the hatred is not directed at us and our beliefs, we don't really care do we.

There is nothing wrong with praying to Krishna, but do not involve yourself with ISKCON or any missionary movement like it. Many missionaries behave as if we are not God Conscious until we see things THEIR way, because only THEIR way is the right way. And if we don’t see things THEIR way, then WE must be stupid.