valaya

With any luck you won't be seeing, hearing, or feeling anything soon since you'll be DEAD! That could be the best way for you to protect the environment...obviously you're far too weak minded to defend the great country you're so fortunate to be a part of! [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-22-2001).]

Heavy or what? Is the only solution to fight fire with fire and slaughter the lot of them? Are there any Muslims on the forum we might hear from? Also, does anyone know why so many American blacks take up this `religion`?

Heavy or what? Is the only solution to fight fire with fire and slaughter the lot of them? Are there any Muslims on the forum we might hear from? Also, does anyone know why so many American blacks take up this `religion`?

Interesting to see how many new Hollywood `blockbusters` had to be withdrawn or discontinued, because they reflected this event in one way or another...

Haribol Maitreya prabhu, thank you for your belated support. There's more to this than you know or I can tell here. I do go out on a limb often and need some confirmation occasionally that I'm not just way out there, or making a fool of myself for nothing. What one stranger believes means little, but it still was a shock. The lack of reaction from this forum, when I specifically pleaded for it, meant much more. Usually I'm quite capable of defending myself and others as well, however this is a stressful time and what makes it more difficult for me, in fact impossible right now, is the continuing battles on these forums. No need to mention names, but the viciousness sometimes gets to me. So just when I'm in the thick of it all, trying to keep something together amongst those whom I respect as devotees, another one broadsides me with malicious slanderous accusations, as if my attempts at unity somehow meant I was putting down Srila Prabhupada! What the hell??? I'm never certain of my own motivations, after all I am the most fallen, so it threw me for a loop. I would have preferred to be caught in mid-air to landing in an embarassing splat, then being handed a shovel and told I should clean myself up! Those who are so sure of themselves that they never need affirmation usually end up being obnoxious or fanatics or both. Others just don't care enough to commit themselves to anyone, though they may cling ferociously to some philosophy that apparently justifies their position. It's not my desire to criticize anyone, nor do I wish to involve myself uselessly in endless conflicts. Unless at least a little positive progress is evident in some way, shape or form how am I to know what's happening or what my involvement should be, if any? It's not as if I'm in direct communication with Supersoul or even have devotee association here to talk things over with. Everyone advises me to stay away from these forums like they were poison. Maybe they actually are, but some of us are stuck here with each other, aren't we? So what to do? Wait for Sri Guru to save us from bashing one another? Personal participation from that level is conspicuous by it's abscence! We're all we have, prabhus...and the whole world (many devotees anyway) is watching this little arena or experiment or whatever, including the entire parampara and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. Don't you think we could do a little better somehow or other? valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-22-2001).]

Dear Jayaradhe prabhu, Thanks for what I felt as encouraging hugs. I know, many may consider me wimpish or worse, but I have many sides. Few could ever appreciate them all. First they would have to recognize those same sides in themselves. Love ain't easy, for us or for Her...I know who I belong to, whatever I may appear to be, and that's what is truely important to me. valaya RR

It is most unfortunate that we appear unable to share each others' loads, because therein lies the secret of connecting; not only with each other, but also with Sri Guru and Srimati Radharani. One who can abandon another to their fate, rationalize from a distance or, worst of all, justify their lack of personal involvement while preaching from scripture, really has no connection at all. Those who are willing to risk everything out of love, who in fact have no choice because their hearts overide their minds, who in spite of realizing their complete lack of any qualification still attempt to help in any way they can, are actually possessed by the service attitude that can lead quickly to pure devotion. All that is then required is to dovetail with the devotees, gurudev and Sri Radha. The way, the means and the end are here and now for all to surrender to. Otherwise it is possible to linger about for countless lifetimes, taking what is of use to the false ego and remaining detached from reality internally, while going through the motions externally; all the while choosing what is pleasurable and avoiding that which brings pain or discomfort. That is the difference between religion and relationship, personal and impersonal. Sacrifice is one thing, but for what and for who? In the end those who hold onto their little selves will lose everything while those who are somehow able to give up themselves, as opposed to simply give of themselves, will achieve realization of the higher self. That is the gist of what Lord Jesus said and, of course, it holds true for all on the path of devotional service as well. What's to lose? Everything! What's to be gained? More than could possibly be imagined from our fearful limited vantage point in this miserable world. Faith, prabhus, not in ourselves, but in that highest Love Divine which has been spread before us like a feast; not to devour for ourselves, but to give away to each other. Is it not obvious by now that I cannot take sides with devotees one against the other? My pleaful efforts on behalf of unity are, to be honest, totally selfish, because disunity tears me apart! To be accused of calling Srila Prabhupada sectarean because I'd posted an article emphasizing the need for non-sectareanism was a complete shock to me! Then, in spite of my request here, to have no one respond was deeply painful. Finally, Audarya lila prabhu stepped in. Is he really the only one that can understand where I'm coming from, what I'm attempting and who I'm trying to serve? Or is he just the only one who gives a damn?! I'm willing to accept the risks and give the emotional committment, but not if none of this is making any difference whatsoever. Sure, I know, don't be attached to the results. Well if I wasn't attached then how could I be connected, let only committed? Come to think of it, if this madness continues much longer I'm afraid I'll soon have to commit myself for professional help in a mental hospital. At least it beats suicide, or does it? Besides, it's the only vacation I can afford! Maybe I could learn something there to apply here, eh? valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-22-2001).]

Have no idea what either of you are talking about. Without increasing understanding, what is the point of further communication? Believe it or not, I don't talk just to hear myself speak or post here for any reason except to connect with others. Should I conclude that is not happening in any productive sense, I will simply leave you all to your seemingly endless squabbles and continue my chanting alone. I have no taste for most of this, only the dwindling hope that something real might come out of it. I'm sure you might be able to explain a lot, Maitreya, but of course you don't want to even take the personal risk of Emailing me privately, let alone speaking by phone. Love overcomes fear, as well as the urge to poke, provoke and generally disturb others. Looks like I can't participate without getting caught-up in the negativity that always seems to be lurking here, ready to pounce. Who needs it? Feel free to answer on this forum or by Email: amanpeter@hotmail.com should the inclination strike any of you. Blame me if you like, it's `just another brick in the wall`. valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-22-2001).]

Seems Audarya lila prabhu was the only one to respond on Dharma-mela with any understanding. Actually, no one else had anything to say at all. Guess the rest of you must have missed my posts there and the one above, or perhaps you agreed with my accuser. Maybe no one even cared or wanted to get involved, for whatever reason. So why do I bother with anyone here, anyway? valaya RR

I'm sure I'm missing plenty here, but not at all sure I want to find out what...

Only time will tell...

Only time will tell...

If you first let all the air out of your lungs, then completely submerge and take a full deep breath while remaining underwater, you will lose the most weight, in fact your entire body... No butts about it!

I'm sure Talasiga doesn't always intend to be disrespectful, methinks he's just got a shoulder under his chip... [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-21-2001).]

Thanks for that, BB prabhu. Let's hear it for the NCOs! Knew one regimental sergeant-major that used to press his shoelaces! Remember basic training? Our corporal called us `sir` and treated us like `shit'! When he said `HYAH!` we jumped alright! Some rose to the challenge, most didn't...

Thanks for that, BB prabhu. Let's hear it for the NCOs! Knew one regimental sergeant-major that used to press his shoelaces! Remember basic training? Our corporal called us `sir` and treated us like `shit'! When he said `HYAH!` we jumped alright! Some rose to the challenge, most didn't...

Old soul perhaps, but happy never! Interferes with my sadhana!

Only the genuine prophet knows...or does he? Now you're getting me confused! Could Talisiga be haunting us with some strange Aussie bush-magic? Do you think he's preparing himself for an all-out poetic assault when he returns? Should I be studying the Theasaurus and my Oxford Book of Quotations? Nah, japa will have to do!

Dear Mr.Dasanudas, Of course all must follow their own hearts. No criticism of anyone, except perhaps my former self, was intended. Still, without the close physical association of the devotees which she always seems to feel the need for, JRdd might reasonably be expected to become influenced, to some extent, by her immediate environment. Was that not already hinted at in the post she directed at me, seeking reassurance in her convictions regarding America's stand in the coming struggle? I do respect courageous pacifists, but as far as I know, that is not the stance of devotees. We have our way and others have their's which is fine so long as our personal faith is not weakened through subtle or overt influences. I thought it appropriate to mention the mode of goodness as a potential attachment under the circumstances. My opinions on anti-Vietnam sentiments and their effect on individuals in the military are from personal experiences which I do not want to see repeated. Nor is this a war the world can afford to lose, in my humble opinion. HARIBOL! valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-21-2001).]

Was that really a `burning bush` or all that poetry that his wife forced him to toss out 'cuz it was cluttering up the house? (chuckle!)

Does anyone remember the Christian guy who was bicycling with his girlfriend, then suddenly left her to head out into the desert with just his bible for 40 days. God showed him where to dig for water, I think, though he was not always successful. Finally he had `a vision of God's love for all of mankind` and he left the bible, because he felt it was no longer necessary. Don't remember how he left the desert, but he married his girlfriend and is now happily married, still appreciating God's love for all.

Mayadevi and Radharani are opposite sides of the same coin--spend Her wisely! Now I appear to be under attack on Dharma-mela for reposting an anti-sectarean article from VNN. Ignorance in the guise of devotion. Makes me wish I'd never gotten involved in any of this. Better to have become a moral atheist. Cheap words in supposed glorification of Sri Guru do not a disciple make, prabhus. Nor does condemnation of another automatically prove one's superiority, in fact quite the opposite. Still, I'm at a loss for words. If anyone would care to check out the article and it's aftermath, including my explanation, perhaps they could support or advise me. RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-21-2001).]

jndas has blocked access to our Email addresses, even if we've selected that we want them to be viewable. I would prefer mine available to all members. Think it was because some complained of bulk mailings by at least one former member, who shall remain unnamed...

I've started a spin-off from the `Bizarre` thread, because this subject appears worthy of separate discussion. valaya ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From jagat (on `Bizarre thread`): IP: Logged _____________________________ valaya Member posted 09-21-2001 10:12 AM From jagat: quote: Is it time to talk of a "white man's burden" again? ********************** From valaya: More the burden of democracies I would say, in this increasingly educated age. The two must go hand in hand. Democracies require an educated electorate to mature and other democracies to interact with. Thus the growth of capitalism is synonymous with democratic governments, bringing the many material advantages desired by all. People remain oppressed and ignorant because they have been taught that it is their lot in life, for whatever reason. True emancipation for everyone must be our common goal as only then will the concept of spiritual freedom as devotional service become widely accepted. Otherwise the proper motivation will usually not be present, because one cannot give up what one doesn't possess. Religion in that case is generally simply the desire for liberation from physical circumstances, rather than material conciousness itself. As Suryaz prabhu has so clearly pointed out previously on this forum, real Bhakti requires the exercise of free will in every sense of the word. HARIBOL! RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-21-2001).]

From jagat: More the burden of democracies I would say, in this increasingly educated age. The two must go hand in hand. Democracies require an educated electorate to mature and other democracies to interact with. Thus the growth of capitalism is synonymous with democratic governments, bringing the many material advantages desired by all. People remain oppressed and ignorant because they have been taught that it is their lot in life, for whatever reason. True emancipation for everyone must be our common goal as only then will the concept of spiritual freedom as devotional service become widely accepted. Otherwise the proper motivation will usually not be present, because one cannot give up what one doesn't possess. Religion in that case is generally simply the desire for liberation from physical circumstances, rather than material conciousness itself. As Suryaz prabhu has so clearly pointed out previously on this forum, real Bhakti requires the exercise of free will in every sense of the word. RR