Haridasdasdas

I thought I'd add that a Gujurati friend of mine told me once that the vegetable ghee in india often contains not just animals fats, but cow fat too. I don't know the truth of this, or how prevalent it is. It is my understanding that ghee available in Europe, both vegetable and butter, is vegetarian.

Prabhupada never said to end dairy consumption. He said to always offer dairy products to Krishna to relieve the suffering of the cows.You've twisted his words to suit your own agenda, in the same way you previously twisted my words to pretend that I said Vaisnavas need to drink milk. I also do not care in the slightest for your swearing and insinuation of such. I have not approached you as an enemy, I have tried to talk with you, and you attack me with 'FU'. It doesn't raise the bar of the conversation. Neither does posting the same topic again and again all over the forums. That comes across as obsessive, and fanatical. For the record, I recall in the first one of these threads you made a few months ago, you said that people who supported the dairy industry were cow killers. You can search it up if you like. Prabhupada supported the dairy industry. Therefore I am not taking you out of context in any way if I say that you are making a very direct attack on Srila Prabhupada. I can't imagine that I have much else to say on this matter, and please excuse me if I take a while to reply, because I may be away for a few days.

So Prabhupada is a cow killer, because he bought dairy products? This is what you are saying. Why do you link to a site of the books of someone who by your definitions is a cow killer? Why have you posted this so many times about not taking dairy, when the real reason why you don't is due to your lactose intolerance? Can you understand why you don't come across as an emotionally stable individual?

He would accept what Prabhupada said, since he is Prabhupada's disciple.

People would stop breeding them. Now stop pretending that your desire to enjoy your senses is anything else than just that. After you accept this, you can change. Many of the people on this forum were once meat eaters, and they have accepted meat eating as the pointless activity which it is, and discarded it. Do you think Adi Sankara was a meat eater? What about Sri Caitanya? Sai Baba? Meat eating is what you do when there is nothing else to eat. Fortunately, there is plenty else to eat for everyone in the western world. Stop the pretending, and face the facts. Also, Balaram is not the opposite of Krishna, where did you get that idea from? They aren't YIN and Yang, that Chinese philosophy. Please stop making things up.

I guess it all boils down to how much you believe in the Bible really. I don't think you'll find many Hindus who do.

There's more than one version of the Valmiki Ramayan, you know that? Stupid Troll.

Prabhupada's disciples asked him if they should still buy milk products from commercial dairies involved in the meat industry. He said we should take it and offer it to Krishna, until we can get it all from cow protection efforts of our own. So basically you haven't answered my question, and didn't really understand it in the first place.

When I said a Gaudiya I meant a follower of Prabhupada, Narayan Maharaj etc. So how can a follower of Prabhupada decry something that Prabhupada did? Where is the consistency? I am not saying you do or don't have to take any dairy products. I am saying that saying dairy is unethical is contradictory to the teachings of Prabhupada, and anybody who claims to follow him should be aware of that. How can a person accept Prabhupada as Jagat Guru, and then say, 'oh, but he was wrong about milk products, he was supporting cow slaughter, he was a bad person'? So basically you think Prabhupada was an unethical person. Am i wrong? EDIT: Just to let everyone know, theist is lactose intolerant as he said in the previous thread. So he can't take dairy products. Correct me if I am wrong. Theist: If you can prove to me that your stance does not contradict Prabhupada, and does not condemn him as a supporter of killing, then I shall fully accept what you say, and I shall stop buying dairy products immediately. That is my promise.

Yea, that's one of many arguments from a vedic perspective. As well as that you have the basic ethics of it, you are killing unnecessarily for no reason other than to satisfy your senses. When you have plenty of other food available, it's not easy to justify meat eating. Many meat eaters will come up with this argument or that argument, but would they wear fur? Usually not. Why not? Because they think it is cruel to kill an animal for your own enjoyment. Okay then, but what is meat eating? It is proven scientifically as not only unnecessary for good health, but also very impractical unless you live in a desert or on a tropical island or something and you just cant grow crops. I'm not even going to talk about the environmental implications, it's just an all round bad idea (but you probably won't get a disease). Good people, bad habits, that's what I say.

Well in a civilized society, the cow is fed, and after that, the cow is milked and humans take the remainder. Between that time and the next feeding time of the calf, the mother will have produced more milk. I've seen this practiced, and cows provide loads of milk anyway, more than a calf can drink. What was Krishna's childhood occupation?

All I know is that Prabhupada said that devotees should take dairy milk, and that it would be much better if they could establish goshallas themselves, Laxshmi allowing. As far as I understand, Narayana Maharaja and Sridhar Maharaj made similar statements. Prabhupada was well aware of the sidelines of the dairy industry, etc, but he still said, we shall take milk and offer it to Krishna. So I couldn't call it intellectually consistent for a Gaudiya Vaisnava to be a Vegan on ethical grounds. To me, Veganism would be a condemnation of Prabhupada, saying that he is like a meat eater etc.

I can tell you with reasonable certainty that most Iskcon devotees don't practise celibacy within marriage. Personally I've never seen it as some big sin to, unless you made a vow not to (ie initiation), but it simply isn't Krishna Conscious. Then again, neither is going to the cinema, or other activities like that. In the Bhagavatam 3rd Canto, even the sage Kashypya gives into lust for his wife, so don't feel bad or guilty. Then again, Prabhupada says in that purport that children born of lust are more likely to be demoniac by nature, like Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakasipu in that example. So, do what you can really. Just don't get into guilt spirals or anything like that. If you cannot cultivate celibacy, then it will be much easier to cultivate humility. Just my input, I'd recommend that you get other people's opinions.

What gave you that impression? Yea maybe if you aren't a lawyer or a doctor you won't get moksha either. Not if you don't finish your greens either!

Well the intention is noble, but I think it would be better to give everyone the same rights, if there is some special marriage ceremony for muslims, allow everyone to have it, etc. Do you understand what I mean? I don't think the religion thing is that bad, it's just the principle of it.