Sensible _bloke

Comparison is not blasting. It is Just that... comparison. I never compared Ramana and Babaji, I compared your Vaishnava with ramana.... Ramana who gave No Gyan and transmitted EXPERIENCES (no Fiya from mouth) versus "this God better than that" statements by the vaishnava in question. Every "Body" is defective.. that is the whole point.... I dont see how Siddhi or anything that you say has anything to do with the conciousness.. The goal of Kriya Yoga or any yoga is to Yoke ... Go back to the source...the bodies are steps on the way which is what yogananda's master spoke of... You can continue with your obfuscation and twisting out of context... In any case I guess it is too much to expect anything else from a Dwaitin. You Choose not to believe Vivekananda,... But expect people to accept your version of scriptures... Sorry bloke it does not work that way... As expected no answer for my direct comparisons. And this REAL meaning of VEDA, REAL Meaning for the Gita.. makes me think that this REAL just belongs to a particular sect of vaishnavas which makes it a few dozen years old... In any case all the best... continue your REAL theories. I guess that gentleman who warned me about talking to your group was right after all... Im Off to find a River......

You seem to read bits and pieces of all books (May be the bits and pieces that you are supposed to read). In any case let me explain. Ramakrishna could not reach nirvikalpa Samadhi since he was drunk with love for the divine mother. Then along can an Advaitin called Totapuri. He had to force Ramakrishna to remove the image and attachment to Yogamaya. He in fact describes it as cutting apart the mental image to enter the undivided state. The Practical fact is many people have done it. If you read Mahavatar Babaji's message (FULLY), he talks about jumping into the infinite current, but is deliberately holding on to an individual consciousness. And Some one being born as a Girl.... Where did you get that from? Even if...So what? For liberal free thinking people, a Girl is as good as a guy....

Dear Mr. Expert... Thank you for Your enlightening discourse. But as usual even the definition that you propound is twisted and in line with your ISKCON school of thought... samadhi: (Sanskrit) "Enstasy," which means "standing within one's Self.Sameness; contemplation; union, wholeness; completion." Samadhi is the state of true yoga, in which the meditator and the object of meditation are one. Of course Samadhi is achieved by Yoga... What did you think..? Through Reading Puranas??? ----------------------------- I will substitute experience with printed paper, and as a group seek to twist things out of context, Just to prove a point that I have not internalised the TRUE Bhaktha, Bhaktajan

What ever the view be...it is irrelevant. I was wonderstruck at your level of intolerance.. Any way since you have the total mercy of Bhagwan, all the best. I am talking about the experience that thousands of people had with Ramana. It is an experience... not a proclamation. It will not obviously make sense to a book trotting theorist. I dont care about your vedic evidence, I care only about experience and do not to your version of the truth. I will give you a proof that is for all to see... day to day proof ...... I had written about some proof I had on a Guru... But the moderator who allows all and sundry views about any other spiritual Guru, seems to have a soft corner for this particular Guru and deleted my post. Let me reword it and see if this is acceptable. Proof 1: Any method needs to produce bliss and tolerance. Ramana for instance could never be provoked and never called people names if they refuted his views (against some other Gurus Who used Rascal and Fool as their Signature) Proof 2: Ramana's Body had cancer and he never made anything of it. He remained in the same blissful state and when he departed, a flash of light was seen on Arunachala. This against some Guru Proclaiming that he was poisoned and his devotees themselves had done it. Proof 3: Ramana has proved that he was not limited to the body and was able to meet his people at different places on earth, when he was physically at Arunachala. This against a practice that never gave even it's own propagator peace. If you need further proof, send me your email address.. I will send you loads of material on Room conversations... Proof 4: Ramana Never preached using a set of books as crutches. His teaching was through transmitting experiences directly. Naturally what you experience is more real than what you read. So ramana never needed to come and tell you.. Bhagavan uvacha.....Devi Uvacha.....If you choose to disbelieve what others say it is fine... No problem... But the same applies to others even when you quote a purana.... Disclaimer : I am not a devotee of Ramana, but I admire his spiritual genius. and finally I had never asked you for Vedic evicence. I am not interested in blindly believing the experiences of unknown people. What I believe is what I experience.

Ok I learnt a Sloka when i was In school Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwaraha Guru Sakshat "PARAM BRAHMA" Taismai Sree Gurave Namaha. Which was Boldly decalared to me by my sanskrit teacher. So as per your interpretation i conclude that Guru is the Param brahma....the Source of all, the supreme God head. Might Sound stupid to a dwaitin, but makes perfect sense to an advaitin.

Have you heard of stilling the mind and being awash with waves of bliss??? That is called Samadhi, and total absorption is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi.. Not only has it been done. there are many Yogis and Siddhas who have accomplished it and some have chosen to drop their bodies and merge with the infinite current. "They have got the realization of oneness". Suggest you read the life history of Ramakrishana, Ramana Maharishi, Yogananda to get a view.

And I suppose You, by praying to Krsna are in Vaikunta /Krsna Loka already!!! and are free from Maya??? Does not look like. You are unable to even tolerate a different point of view and resort to calling people retards, just because they hold a different view / do not to your ISCKON views. "We are watching" and suspect that your path is not one of peace, a method (Krsna chanting) that cannot induce tolerance of others views and propagate compassion and love seems to be not worth a try.

Proselitization is never a good Idea.... Intelligent people choose a path because their experience says so not because some scripture says so. Each person has the right to express his views, but it should not be to the point of "my view better than yours". That creates friction and nobody gains. I have nothing against a personal God, I too have immense love for my ishta devata.. But if someone chooses the impersonal over the personal, it is their choice. In my opinion, as a limited human being one cannot fanthom the whole truth... So we try to substantiate using scriptures, experiences etc, but ultimately, there are as many theories as there are people. To a shaiva the vaishnava texts don’t make sense, to the vaishnava, the shaiva texts don’t make sense, to a muslim, the Vedas don’t makes sense, to a Christian, the Koran does not make sense. To each his own. As Buddha said " Apa Devo Bhava". If there was only one version of the truth, then why so many religions, why so many sects, why so many philosophies? Why atheism? The very fact that existence allows individual freedom itself is evidence that one shirt will not fit all.....Apa Devo Bhava.....

Before I sign off... Just tempted to address your interest Vishnu Purana Book 3, Chapter 12 AURVA continued.--"Let a respectable householder ever venerate the gods, kine, Brahmans, saints, aged persons, and holy teachers. Let him observe the two daily Sandhyás, and offer oblations to fire. Let him dress in untorn garments, use delicate herbs and flowers, wear emeralds and other precious stones, keep his hair smooth and neat, scent his person with agreeable perfumes, and always go handsomely attired, decorated with garlands of white flowers ( Sure, Flowers!!!!) . Let him never appropriate another's property, nor address him with the least unkindness. Let him always speak amiably and with truth, and never make public another's faults. Let him not desire another's prosperity, nor seek his enmity. Let him not mount upon a crazy vehicle, nor take shelter under the bank of a river (which may fall upon him). A wise man will not form a friendship nor walk in the same path with one who is disesteemed, who is a sinner or a drunkard, who has many enemies, or who is lousy, with a harlot or her gallant, with a pauper or a liar, with a prodigal, a slanderer, or a knave. Let not a man bathe against the strength of a rapid stream, nor enter a house on fire, nor climb to the top of a tree ( How does one drink Tender coconut, get mangoes ?) ; nor (in company) clean his teeth or blow his nose, nor gape without covering his mouth, nor clear his throat, nor cough, nor laugh loudly, nor emit wind with noise, nor bite his nails, nor cut grass, ( OMG Cutting grass is banned!! No more landscaping… I mean..... ever!!!) nor scratch the ground, nor put his beard into his mouth, nor crumble a clod of clay ( No Pottery Allowed !! Strictly) ; nor look upon the chief planetary bodies when he is unclean Let him not express disgust at a corpse, for the odour of a dead body is the produce of the moon ( I thought Microorganisms were involved !!!). Let a decent man ever avoid by night the place where four roads meet, the village tree ( ????) , the grove adjacent to the place where bodies are burnt, and a loose woman. Let him not pass across the shadow of a venerable person, of an image, of a deity, of a flag, of a heavenly luminary ( No Pradhakshina is possible during the day time!!!). Let him not travel alone through a forest, nor sleep by himself in an empty house ( What to do if nobody is at home?? Find a hotel). Let him keep remote from hair, bones, thorns, filth, remnants of offerings, ashes, chaff, and earth wet with water in which another has bathed. Let him not receive the protection of the unworthy, nor attach himself to the dishonest. Let him not approach a beast of prey; and let him not tarry long when he has risen from sleep. Let him not lie in bed when he is awake, nor encounter fatigue when it is time to rest. A prudent man will avoid, even at a distance, animals with tusks and horns; and he will shun exposure to frost, to wind, and to sunshine. (I did not know they had hermetic Air-conditioned rooms those days) A man must neither bathe, nor sleep, nor rinse his mouth whilst he is naked (Oops!! I am off to buy a suit to take bath) he must not wash his mouth, or perform any sacred rite, with his waistband unfastened: and he must not offer oblations to fire, nor sacrifice to the gods, nor wash his mouth, nor salute a Brahman, nor utter a prayer, with only one garment on. ( A minimum 2 piece is recommended. Seriously!!). Let him never associate with immoral persons: half an instant is the limit for the intercourse of the righteous with them. (Now THAT is being Specific!!) A wise man will never engage in a dispute with either his superiors or inferiors: controversy and marriage are to be permitted only between equals (Has anybody heard of a term called Equality?? I thought all people are equal in the eyes of God!! Apparently not as per this purana). Let not a prudent man enter into contention: let him avoid uprofitable enmity. A small loss may be endured; but he should shun the wealth that is acquired by hostility. "When a man has bathed, he must not wipe his limbs with a towel nor with his hands, nor shake his hair, nor rinse his mouth before he has risen. ( may be we should air dry ourselves!!) Let him not (when sitting) put one foot over another, nor stretch forth his foot, in the presence of a superior, but sit with modesty in the posture called Vírásana (or on his knees). He must never pass round a temple upon his left hand, nor perform the ceremony of circumambulating any venerable object in the reverse direction. A decent man will not spit, nor eject any impurity, in front of the moon, fire, the sun, water, wind, or any respectable person (remember if you need to relieve your bladder and you are in the desert…… If you are on a ship in the ocean…...If you are on a mountain which is breezy….GOD SAVE YOU!!!) nor will he void urine standing, (Why do I feel this whole thing is Absurd??) nor upon the highway: he will never step over phlegm, ordure, urine, or blood; nor is the expectoration of the mucus of the throat allowable at the time of eating, offering sacrifices or oblations, or repeating prayers, or in the presence of a respectable person. "Let not a man treat women with disrespect, nor let him put entire faith in them. Let him not deal impatiently with them, nor set them over matters of importance. (Any body heard of the term gender equality???) A man who is attentive to the duties of his station will not go forth from his house without saluting the chaplets, flowers, gems, clarified butter, and venerable persons in it (Saluting Ghee, flowers, gems!!!! Wow..). At proper seasons he will salute respectfully the places where four roads meet, when engaged in offering oblations with fire. Let him liberally relieve the virtuous who are poor, and reverence those who are learned in the Vedas. He who is a worshipper of the gods and sages, who gives cakes and water to the manes, and who exercises hospitality, obtains the highest regions after death. He who speaks wisely, moderately, and kindly, goes to those worlds which are the inexhaustible sources of happiness. He who is intelligent, modest, devout, and who reverences wisdom, his superiors, and the aged, goes to heaven. "On the days called Parvas, on periods of impurity, upon unseasonable thunder, and the occurrence of eclipses or atmospheric portents, a wise man must desist from the study of the Vedas. The pious man who suppresses anger and envy, who is benevolent to all, and allays the fears of others, secures, as the least of his rewards, enjoyment in Swarga. A man should carry an umbrella, as a defence against sun and rain; he should bear a staff when he goes by night, (I use a car!!! Simpler and safer) or through a wood; and he should walk in shoes, if he desires to keep his body from harm. As he goes along he should not look up, nor about him, nor afar off, (Hardly a recipe for safety!!) but keep his eyes upon the ground to the extent of a couple of yards. That's It folks..... Arrivederci'-------

And The Justifications you provide are flimsy.. They are not traceable in a foolproof manner. You have also been handed these from your guru and he from his guru and trust they are true because you trust your guru... If You are justified in doing that so is this gentleman.

Yeah Right!! If Krishna Kills it is for Perfection, if some others deities kill it is Tamasic. Keep your stuff going...... and by the way if you think saying "foolish and stupid" are being fanatical, you will find a lot of that in your literature themselves. I request you to look a little harder at the recorded talks and works of Prabhupada. Crazy christians??? How Bigoted !! They just claim the superiority of Christ / Mary / God just like you claim Krishna.. Just the name differs. And by the way who told you I am an impersonalist? About Ego... I am not naive to believe that I am a "Dasa". I know I have imperfections that make me human. The trouble is you while you people can dish it out to others, when it comes to taking criticism, your group seems to fare poorly. in any case I do not want to continue this arguement beyond some point and would like to sign off.

Divine arrangement ???? Then why rule out possibilities, do what you think is right and let the other gentleman who thinks Ganesha is supreme go on his way... and assume that too is a "Divine Arrangement"

My post will be confusing to a book worm. And who said that I need to to ISKCON version of truth to say what I say? I dont care about your version of truth. I dont even want to limit myself to the sanathana dharma. I believe in accepting all experiences that existence throws at me and float with it. Truth as far as I am concerned is experiential. The God I have experienced has not come out from a book or even a set of books. It is the bliss you are within, without and everywhere. If at all you meant what you said about "Ganesha telling this man for a higher purpose", then who are you to refute it ??? Are you greater than Ganesha?? Demons??? Krishna killed all and sundry... Remember the Mahabharatha war, Krishna was the root cause for the destruction of the entire Kaurava clan including innocent soldiers. He advised Arjuna to kill. Was Bhishma a Demon??? And even looking at the so called demons, if you refer to your own puranas, they were dwarapalakas of Mahavishnu and incarnated because of a curse. In any case I think Puranas were told to help people relate to God and do not represent actually what happened. I am sure you or your Ilk will jump on me and ask for a proof!!! The Only proof I have is that a lot of your puranas are illogical. Absurd. Only a fanatic / fool will believe them blindly. If you choose to belong to this category, then please feel free. Hare Krsna

Wow--- a sensble Quote at last!!!!

The stupidity is in differentiating with name and form and saying this god is superior to that, on which this arguement is based. I agree with you that this divine leela is what creates experiences in which the parabrahman rejoices. Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.