arjun2826

I am sad. I was born and leave abroad. I have indian origin. My parent want me to get married (arranged marriage) in India and to come back abroad with my wife. I already love a white and catholic girl. My parent refuse to see/accept her despite my love. They say I have to return in india to make ganesh chaturthi each year as my father did. If i am married with a catholic, I will be excluded of the community (this doesnt disturb me as i was abroad so i never belonged to this community), but consequently i won't be able to do ganesh chaturthi (social festival). I want to honour my father by doing this fest. I love him very much, I love my mother very much, and my girlfriend too. Does anyone can help me please to find a solution. I am sad. If i don't find any solution, i hope I will die soon as this pain is too much for me. Please help.

Here is a wellknown topic, but still I canno't get one and definitive answer. So I will tell you my story : It is the story of an indian origin guy living abroad and who fall in love with a white catholic girl. His parent refuse absolutely this union because : - it will bring shame, unhappiness on his indian indian family living abroad too - their son won't be able to "put fire" on the funeral of his parent (because he is married to a catholic girl, and is no more "pure") - they worship Ganesh Chaturti in India in the house of the grandparent. Their son is ok to worship Ganesh abroad, in the place where he lives. But according to his parents, he cannot do it outside of the grandparent home in India because of religious or social "rules" (I don't know which exactely). And as in India, he will be excluded of the community, he has no choice to seperate of his white girlfriend to be able to worship Ganesh. - As he is the only one boy in this family, he has no choice to get married to his girlfriend if he want to worship Ganesh Chaturti Could you help me please ? Is there anybody of temple who can tell what is right or not. Should he continue his relation with that girl according to these difficulties or these reason are wrong ? Please bring me your help.

Thanks for the information. It's said that under the english colonisation, indian were not allowed to gather themselves. It was indeed a risk of indian revolution for english people. That's why Tilak told the purpose of Ganesh meeting was only religious, not political. Then, english allowed such meetings. Of course, it is said that during these meetings, indian were talking of political topics against english. If this is true, it is funny that ganesh chaturthi, as we know it today, is a consequence of political need first, then religious need. Am I wrong ?

From Holidays in India - Indian Festival 2009, Indian Holidays 2009, Indian Festivals 2009, Festivals Of India : " Ganesh Chaturthi is a major festival of Maharashtra, where thousands of gigantic idols of lord Ganesh are immersed by huge processions of worshipers shouting, Ganpati Bapa Morya. With time, the festival has now gained popularity all over India, with celebrations in south India and Gujarat being no less spectacular than those of Maharashtra. The year 1893 brought a major change in the celebration of Ganesh Chaturthi. It was in this year that Lokmanya Tilak, an Indian nationalist, social reformer and freedom fighter reformed the annual Ganesh festival, from being a private celebration into a grand public event. Till 1893, Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations were a private affair, not done on a public scale. People used to celebrate it in a traditional manner. It was Lokmanya Tilak who popularized Ganesh Chaturthi as a national festival, after visualizing its cultural importance. The reason for this was to enhance the sense of belongingness as well as togetherness among the citizens. It was also done with an aim to build a new grassroots unity between the Brahmins and the non-Brahmins. " Hi all, In this article, it is said that till 1893, Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations were a private affair, not done on a public scale. Could you please bring me some more detail on it ? I imagine that even before 1893, Ganesh was brought in water at the end of the festival. This was certainely not done alone but with all the people of the village. So it was certainely a social work, a social festival, done on "a public scale". So I cannot understand this article. Could you please explain what was the difference between before 1893 and after this date ? Thanks

Ok, I understand your answer and like it. Could you please tell me what you called spirituality ? Is it faith ? is it practicing rituals ?

7th time you repeat the same thing Don't loose credibility little sephiroth .. ;-)

Mmmmhh.. seems really you have problem to say briefly things LOL... It's the fourth time you repeat the same thing. Did you drink or are you normal ? ;-)... How do you know I will not progress in spirtualism. Can you say you progressed more than me ? It is the fifth time you repeat I am a drunkard.. LOL Please don't try to bring confusion and answer my previous question : Imagine for medical needs you have to take alcohol or morphine for example. Will you refuse because it is the "Evil's sign" as you said ? or will you accept ? I know you cannot answer : if you refused and remain consistent with what you said, you risk your health, and if you accept, you won't be consistent with what you wrote earlier... This is the dilemma of giving such no sense answers .. ;-) I think you are not able to go deeply in some topics. Maybe you get scared of it (and I can understand), maybe you never tried it, so consequentely, you speak of things you don't know, you accuse other, and repeat 5 times the same sentence LOL... So it is funny, and you lose credibility. Maybe you should try to understand the topic, the problem, and try to build an credible argument. Drinking a lot makes of people drunkard But drinking sometimes doesn't mean this. But maybe if you didn't understand my writting, you will certainely feel the need to say a sixth time that I am a drunkard .. LOL Please try to not make me laugh once more ;-)

And even in some state in india, they don't even know what superstition is. Consequently everything is faith, everything is asked by God...

Is there any swamis on this website ? :-)

Ok I think I understand what you mean concerning alcohol and 'self induced attachements'. But I have doubt concerning some of your interpretation. Concerning self induced attachements, I totally agree with your point of view. I think even this argument is still true for all external factor (for example somebody who makes you feel angry, but you must stay cool). In this last case it is called 'stoicism' Now what I disagree is that alcohol must not be seen as the devil sign. It must be a pleasure like dancing, singing, laughing. Plus, i am sure there is a no ha restriction in any scriptures.. Is it ? Anyway, i respect your way of life.. If you feel good with it.

I totally agree with you. And this is what I am trying to do

Ok, to summarize what you said : - you repeated three times that I was a drunkard LOL. One time was enough. Seems you have difficulties to say briefly things LOL. - Spiritualism need discipline and self control. To answer your notices : First : Drinking once a week for example doesn't make of you a drunkard. I don't get surprised you say this because you never drunk I suppose and I am sure you talk of someting you don't know. In that case, in my opinion, people should not talk LOL. Second : Spiritualism need discipline and self control. I totally agree, and this is what I do. Only, I have my fashion to do. I feel good with that. You have yours, you feel good with yours. I don't criticize. Third : What about if a medicine contains alcohol ? Would you say that you will never authorize it because it contains alcohol and would prefer risk the life of somebody that is closed to you ?

Ok : what you mean is that to reach moksha, we need to be clean. Alcohol clouds our mind. Ritual at the contrary helps us to come out of this persistent delusion. Does it mean that as a hindu, you never drink ? Now, I know lots of acts that clouds our mind : Imagine you didn't eat. You are hungry : This clouds your mind. Imagine you eat to much. You feel sleepy : This clouds your mind. Imagine you feel a pain. You feel to cry : This clouds your mind. Imagine you get scared. There is automaticaly adrenaline in your blood sent by your brain : This clouds you mind. What I mean is that : even if you don't take any substance (like alcohol for example), your body produces its own substance. Consequentely, it "clouds your mind". So if I share your point of view, that would mean that man shoud not feel sleepy after eating to much, should not feel hungry if he didn't eat ... to summarize should not have any feelings.. Do you think it is consistent, and this is realistic ? I never drink alcohol when I pray. For me it is only a question of respect for God.

Ok, to summurize, what you mean is that rituals are performed because it is : - a tradition. As they are used to doing it, they don't feel pressurised (I agree) - a way to get blessings from god (ok) - not a fear of punishment from god (I know lots of indian who thinks the contrary and try to make you scared...)

Sorry Sant, I don't understand all the words 'Sampradaya' and 'puraan'

Ok. I am leaving abroad. Overhere, in the morning in the appartement, I wake up, have bath, pray quickly god as my parent told me since I am young, have breakfast, and go to work. This is my routine, shortly said. Now imagine, now I am in India. I wake up in the house, have bath, then have to do Puja as all my family in India perform it. It means, go outside with your towel on you, pick up some flowers (around 15), put one flower on each deitie, pray all the gods, put the yellow and red "powder" on all deities, take some coton, make it as fine as a thread, put it in a small plate with oil, light the coton then ring the small bell while praying god and drawing circle with the plate in the hand. Then I have to go outside of the house allways with the towel on you with some water, pray the tulsi, put the yellow or red powder on the tulsi, throw some water on it and near it with eyes closed, then burn some incense. All this rituals must be done in one exact order (that I don't remember now ;-) ), according to my family in India. First, nobody force me to do this, but as somebody must do once a day, I have to do it because I am in India, otherwise people will criticize. Secondly, I am sure some clever people invented these rituals several hundreds years ago with a meaning to that. But actually I don't understand it, my family overthere perform it without wondering this way (plus you should'nt ask this kind of question, because it would mean you reconsider the ancestror logic...) and consequentely, they are not able to answer my question. Third : Even if there was a logic to this ritual hundreds years ago, I wonder if this logic is still valid today. Four : If the aim of this ritual is to make us meditate on our life, on our way of life (that is a very good thing in my opinion), I think there are other way to meditate instead of putting flowers on each deitie in the morning ... Well I hope you didn't think I was criticizing anybody. It was not my goal. I am just trying to understand some different way of life and maybe practice it if I am convinced of it, and if it belongs to my 'dharma'.

Hi Sambya, - don't you think that the accomodation of numerous contradictory as you said is only in reality an unablelity of being consistent ? -In western countries, there is the same inconsistency: on one hand science, on the other hand religion. But people are free to believe in both. And actually, they often do without condemning religion as you said. Otherwise catholicism would disapear, wouldn't it ? -They believe in both because as I said earlier science brings sometime answers and god brings allways hope. But indian are same : An example : somebody has cancer. What would you do ? See a doctor and pray. It is same in western countries. Could you please precise with examples please ?

This is very interesting because this topic is all about controlling your life or being submitted to rituals. Rituals were invented by our ancestrors. Because these people were so clever, they understood that eating vegetable was good for health even if science at that time was not there to prove it. They understood that doing puja every morning was bringing a good soul, a kind of internal peace. You remind from where you come, your deities, your place in this world, and the importance of things, thoughts, family.. But don't you think, you can get all these benefits with another way : For example eating by yourself more vegetables, more fruits, less meat, making more sports, drinking less alcohol, sleeping normal time... Don't you think, you can spend for example 10 minutes a day (when you want) to meditate and do the work that is supposed to be done during puja for example ? It is all about controlling you life like an adult responsible... not being fully submitted to rules (without sometimes even understanding it) like a child... What do you think of it ? Maybe I am wrong. Please correct, if so.

Science brings sometimes answers God brings allways hope

This is really funny because I never thought about that. But strangely, YOU fast refered to free sex, alcohol, night party. Do you have any complex with these things ? Do you miss them ?? LOL I drink alcohol sometimes, it doesn't mean I am not clean "mentally or physically". It only means I like good tastes. Plus some alcohol like wine or champagne are said to be good for health is you drink little quantity. And I don't feel any complex with that. I know I control it because I drink very little and it's a pleasure. But seems, you never drunk, may be you don't even know the taste, but still you judge things by apparence like a child would do it. Sure it is a way to keep in good health. To keep in good mind ? I don't know. If people don't share the point of view of rituals, they won't be good in mind. Plus, if you don't do rituals doesn't mean you will not have exercise for mind body or soul. You can do sports, eat good products with fish, vegetables, chicken, fruits. And if you are happy doing this, you will plus be in a good soul. You see, I think it is better to have a good taste of life and to control it, better than getting scared of it and judging apparences without even knowing what it is about.

Hi Sant, Rituals as puja every morning. Deity procession and all ritual linked to samskara. Concerning the mariage, nothing is still done. Fight in family is still going on. Let time do its work and let see..

Einstein was telling that little science take you far of god, and many science brings you closer to him. That means that when you start to understand some physics law, you think everything is understandable with science theory. But actually, when you go further in science, you can see that you cannot find out other physics law because it is too difficult. And when difficulties arrive, people usually need hope, so then they need God.

Hinduism is one of the religion that counts the most rituals. Everywhere in India people make ritual. But why do they really practice them ? Is it by faith ? If this was true, so they would be able to explain the reason, the history of this ritual. But they often don't. Is it by superstition? This means for example that if they don't practice, they will be punished by God. So in case, it is better to do. Is it a social work ? With religion and its rituals, each person doesn't stay alone and is taken in a group. Consequently, rituals are performed only because if you don't you will be excluded from your surounding group, criticized by your neibourghood... Rituals exist because of faith? Because of superstition? Or because of social pressure ? Answer might be a mix of three sure. In this case, exepted for the first answer, don't you think rituals are more a restriction of freedom ?

Actually, if this was not true, that would mean that some people are cheating in temples. And as these people are very god believers, I don't think they could do this. Afterwards, there may be an other explanation for their so strange behavior. Does anybody have an explanation ? Isn't it strange ?

It is said that brahmanas are scriptures explaining the meanings of rituals. Why do we do them, what is the sense of it, should we still practice them ? Do you know where I could find any summary of brahmanas on the web ? Thanks