Puru_Das

I understand your point. I am happy the matter is resolved for you. If two things are not being said ,and it only appears that way, then your question is answered. Here is an additional reference article: http://bvml.org/SBNM/lectures/20020216_tfptjdnffg.html

<CENTER>The Heart of Krsna </CENTER><CENTER>(Vaishnava Aparadha & The Path of Spiritual Caution) </CENTER><CENTER>by His Divine Grace </CENTER><CENTER>Paramahamsa Vaisnava Thakura Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Goswami Maharaja </CENTER> http://bvml.org/SBPPG/hok-intr.htm excerpt: "Srila Prabhupada (SBSST) writes: Even if one is a Vaishnava, if he commits offenses to the Holy Name, he becomes unfit to render pure devotion. Although it may appear that he is still being shown favor by the Lord as he continues to make a show of chanting without difficulty, the Lord is actually very displeased with him because of his antagonism toward devotees. Therefore, to give up nama-aparadha we must first give up sadhu-ninda or finding fault with devotees. Regarding the phrase krsna krpa hoileo ("even though he may receive Krishna's mercy"), Srila Saraswati Thakur comments: People may think that because an offender appears to continue to chant without difficulty, the Lord must still favor him, but they are wrong. The Lord is not even slightly moved by their sham devotion. The author of Sri Caitanya-bhagavata, Vrndavana dasa Thakur, says that these statements are not his alone; they are the verdict of the Vedas. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur did not tolerate any disrespect towards genuine Vaishnavas. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also emphatically denounced any insults directed at Vaishnava devotees. To understand the seriousness of vaisnava-aparadha, offending devotees, one must grasp the multi-faceted, multi-dimensional nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Mahaprabhu is the source of all incarnations in Kali-yuga and the savior of all souls. He is Krishna, the son of Maharaja Nanda, fully enriched with the mood and radiance of Sri Radha."

You can broaden your perspective regarding Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers by examining this article: Srila Prabhupada and His Godbrothers SRILA PRABHUPADA AND THE GAUDIYA MATH By Sridam sakha das http://bvml.org/contemporary/srila.htm and you can broaden your perspective regarding sadhu-sanga by examining these quotes from His Divine Grace, his actual instructions on the matter: 108 Srila Prabhupada Quotes On the Importance of Having the Association of Pure Devotees http://bvml.org/contemporary/108spq.htm "(II) SADHU SANGA: Company of Sadhus or Saints. This means an individuals eager desire to be in the company of a Sadhu in order to learn the methods of spiritual practices for God realization alone and for no other purpose. But who is a Sadhu? According to Bhagavatam, Canto XI, Chap. 11, Slokas 29 to 31, the following are the qualities of a genuine Sadhu or Saint: A Sadhu is kind; he cherishes animosity toward none; he smilingly endures even the bitterest miseries; he loves Truth as the vein-blood of his life; he never allows any evil thought to pollute his mind; he looks upon all with equal love and compassion; he does not entertain any kind of mundane desires to darken his mental quantum; he is self-controlled, amiable and pure in character; he remains farthest from any attempt to accumulate for his future subsistence and does not beg anything form anybody; he is abstentious and peaceful; he is steady in his mind; he depends absolutely on the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna, and remains in constant remembrance of the Lord; he is patient, solemn, magnanimous and undisturbed even by utmost provocations and turmoils; he has control over hunger, thirst, lamentations ,infatuation, birth and death; he does never aspire after respect for himself, but is always respectful to others; he is friendly to all; his heart is full of compassion for others; he is fully conversant with the real nature of God; and he is erudite. To keep company with such a one in person, thought and through discussions is Sadhu-sanga." Introduction to Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu Translated by TRIDANDI SWAMI BHAKTI HRIDAYA BON MAHARAJ Rector, Institute of Oriental Philosophy Vrndavan, U.P., India Whenever His Divine Grace made observations about some of his godbrothers, it was out of pure devotion to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that he did so. Unless we share the same level of bhava for guru and Gauranga we should not think they are suitable for us to repeat. We cannot imitate His Divine Grace. Unless you have full realization of the depth of Srila Prabhupada's internal mood how is it possible to really understand the position of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakuras' disciples? Spiritual uncles, according to Srila Narahari Sakara Thakura, are due as much respect as spiritual fathers. Godbrothers often speak to each other more intimately than they do to their disciples. This is true even in the mundane realm, let alone, the transcendental platform. For the health of our own devotion creeper we should avoid indulging in useless controversies, and not take sides in what appear to be "disagreements" between liberated souls. The following quote pertains directly to a discussion regarding Srila Jiva Gosvami and Srila Rupa Gosvami, however it is still very instructive: ". . . What the unalloyed devotee of the Supreme Lord says is all true and is independent of any consideration of unwholesome pros and cons. There is, however, the element of mystery in their verbal controversies. Those, whose judgment is made of mundane stuff, being unable to enter into the spirit of the all-loving controversies among pure devotees, due to their own want of unalloyed devotion, are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views." Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura purport verse 37 Sri Brahma Samhita

However you wish to understand this point is fine with me theist. Personally. I don't believe that English syntax can sufficiently explain it. Such language is limited by relative parameters and can only indicate some conception regarding jiva tattva. As was explained by Babaji Maharaja in Jaiva Dharma: ". . . Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say – “The jivas were created,” “The spiritual world was manifested,” or “There is no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas,” – material time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jivaand spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter. Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization. "

". . . But the good preceptor claims our sincere and complete allegiance. The good disciple makes a complete surrender of himself at the feet of the preceptor. But the submission of the disciple is neither irrational or blind. It is complete on condition that the preceptor himself continues to be altogether good. The disciple retains the right of renouncing his allegiance to the preceptor the moment he is satisfied that the preceptor is a fallible creature like himself. Nor does a good preceptor accept any one as his disciple unless the latter is prepared to submit to him freely. A good preceptor is in duty bound to renounce a disciple who is not sincerely willing to follow his instructions fully. If a preceptor accepts as his disciple one who refuses to be wholly guided by him, or if a disciple submits to a preceptor who is not wholly good, such preceptor and such disciple are, both of them, doomed to fall from their spiritual state. No one is a good preceptor who has not realised the Absolute. One who has realised the Absolute is saved from the necessity of walking on the worldly path. The good preceptor who lives the spiritual life is, therefore, bound to be wholly good. He should be wholly free from any desire for anything of this world whether good or bad. The categories of good and bad do not exist in the Absolute. In the Absolute everything is good. We can have no idea in our present state of this absolute goodness. Submission to the Absolute is not real unless it is also itself absolute. It is on the plane of the Absolute that the disciple is required to submit completely to the good preceptor. On the material plane there can be no such thing as complete submission. The pretence of complete submission to the bad preceptor is responsible for the corruptions that are found in the relationship of the ordinary worldly guru and his equally worldly-minded disciples. All honest thinkers will realise the logical propriety of the position set forth above. But most persons will be disposed to believe that a good preceptor in the above sense may not be found in this world. This is really so. Both the good preceptor and his disciple belong to the spiritual realm. But spiritual discipleship is nevertheless capable of being realised by persons who belong to this world. Otherwise there wold be no religion at all in the world. But because the spiritual life happens to be realizable in this world it does not follow that it is the worldly existence which is capable of being improved into the spiritual. As a matter of fact the one is perfectly incompatible with the other. They are categorically different from one another. The good preceptor although he appears to belong to this world is not really of this world. No one who belongs to this world can deliver us from worldliness. The good preceptor is a denizen of the spiritual world who has been enabled by the will of God to appear in this world in order to enable us to realise the spiritual existence. The plain meaning of the Shastras should, therefore, be our only guide in the search of the good preceptor when we actually feel the need of his guidance. The Scriptures have defined the good preceptor as one who himself leads the spiritual life. It is not any worldly qualifications that make the good preceptor. It is by unreserved submission to such a preceptor that we can be helped to reenter into the realm that is our real home but which unfortunately is veritable terra incognita to almost all of us at present and also impossible of access to one body and mind alike which is the result of the disease of abuse of our faculty of free reason and the consequent accumulation of a killing load of worldly experiences which we have learnt to regard as the very stuff of our existence. ================================================================ Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura penned the original document in the year 442 of the Chaitanya Era, corresponding to December, 1928, on the western calendar. The original treatise can still be found in various Gaudiya archives, under volume 26, number 7, of the Shri Sajjana-toshani. from: Initiation Into Spiritual Life http://bvml.org/SBSST/diksa.htm ********************************************************** ". . . 'Do not practice the craft of a Guru for the purpose of injuring others through malice. Do not adopt the trade of a Guru in order to get immersed in the slough of this world. But if you can, indeed, be My guileless servant you will be endowed with My power - then you need not fear.'" from: Assuming Responsibility Of Being Guru http://bvml.org/SBSST/guru.htm

Bogus Gurus 1.47 paricarya-yaso-lipsuh sisyad gurur na hi One who accepts disciples for personal service and fame is unfit to be a guru. (Visnu Smrti) 1.48 guravo bahavah santi sisya-vittapaharakah durlabhah sad-gurur devi sisya-santapaharakah Many gurus take advantage of their disciples and plunder them. They exploit their disciples for sex, and use them to amass wealth, but a guru who can remove the miseries of his disciples is very rare. (Purana-vakya) The Injunction to Abandon a Bogus Guru 1.49 guror apy avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah utpatha-pratipannasya parityago vidhiyate A guru addicted to sensual pleasure and polluted by vice, who is ignorant and has no power to discriminate between right and wrong, or who is not on the path of suddha-bhakti must be abandoned. (Mahabharata, Udyoga-parva, 179.25) 1.50 snehad va lobhato vapi yo grhniyad diksaya tasmin gurau sa-sisye tat devata sapa apatet If a guru, disregarding the standard for giving diksa, gives the mantra to his disciple out of greed or mundane affection, he is cursed by the gods along with that disciple. (Hari-bhakti-vilasa 2.7) 1.51 yo vyakti nyaya rahitam anyayena srnoti yah tav ubhau narakam ghoram vrajatah kalam aksayam One who assumes the dress and position of an acarya, who speaks against the conclusions of Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures, or performs kirtana opposed to the proper glorification of Sri Krsna, certainly goes to hell for countless lifetimes along with his disciples and whoever else hears such non-devotional talks and kirtanas. (Hari-bhakti-vilasa 1.101) 1.52 vaisnava-vidvesi cet parityajya eva. "guror api avaliptasye" ti smaranat, vaisnava-bhava-rahityena avaisnavataya avaisnavopadisteneti vacana-visaya tvacca. Yathokta-laksanasya sri-guror-avidyamanatayastu tasyaiva maha-bhagavatasyaikasya nitya-sevanam paramam sreyah. A guru who is envious of pure devotees, who blasphemes them, or behaves maliciously towards them should certainly be abandoned, remembering the verse "guror api avaliptasya" (See 1.49). Such an envious guru lacks the mood and character of a Vaisnava. The sastras enjoin that one should not accept initiation from a non-devotee (avaisnavopadistena... See 1.54). Knowing these injunctions of the scriptures, a sincere devotee abandons a false guru who is envious of devotees. After leaving one who lacks the true qualities of a guru, if a devotee is without aspiritual guide, his only hope is to seek out a mahabhagavata vaisnava and serve him. By constantly rendering service to such a pure devotee, one will certainly attain the highest goal of life. (Bhakti-sandarbha, Annucheda 238) from: Sri Gaudiya Kantahara Guru Tattva http://bvml.org/SGK/01.html

Are jiva's the marginal potency or 'from' the marginal potency? It appears that both things are being said. Best thing is to heed this advice of Babaji Maharaja: I know that you will not be able to understand these subjects in a moment, but as you cultivate these transcendental moods within your heart, you will realize cinmaya-bhava more and more. In other words, all the transcendental moods will manifest themselves in the core of your purified heart. Your body is material, and all the activities of your body are also material, but the essence of your being is not material; you are an atomic conscious entity. The more you know yourself, the more you will be able to realize how your svarupa is a tattva superior to the world of maya. Even if I tell you, you will not realize it, or simply be hearing you will not attain it. Cultivate the practice of chanting hari-nama as much as possible. As you go on chanting hari-nama, these transcendental bhavas will begin to manifest in your heart automatically, and to the degree that they do so, you will be able to realize the transcendental world. Mind and speech both have their origin in matter, and they cannot touch the transcendental truth, even with the greatest endeavor. The Vedas say in Taittiriya Upanisad (2.9) yato vaco nivartante aprapya manasa saha The speech and the mind return from brahma, being unable to attain Him. I advise you not to inquire about this matter from anyone, but to realize it yourself. I have just given you an indication (abhasa). Jaiva Dharma Ch. 15 Here are some other references as well. Acording to our acaryas the conditioned jivas are "called the", "belong to" and are simultaneously "the creations of" and are "manifested from" the marginal potency. TEXTS 108-109 jivera 'svarupa' haya----krsnera 'nitya-dasa' krsnera 'tatastha-sakti' 'bhedabheda-prakasa suryamsa-kirana, yaiche agni-jvala-caya svabhavika krsnera tina-prakara 'sakti' haya SYNONYMS jivera--of the living entity; sva-rupa--the constitutional position; haya--is; krsnera--of Lord Krsna; nitya-dasa--eternal servant; krsnera--of Lord Krsna; tatastha--marginal; sakti--potency; bheda-abheda--one and different; prakasa--manifestation; surya-amsa--part and parcel of the sun; kirana--a ray of sunshine; yaiche--as; agni-jvala-ca ya--molecular particle of fire; svabhavika--naturally; krsnera--of Lord Krsna; tina-prakara--three varieties; sakti--energies; haya--there are. TRANSLATION "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy. PURPORT Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura paraphrases these verses as follows: Sri Sanatana Gosvami asked Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "Who am I?" In answer, the Lord replied, "You are a pure living entity. You are neither the material body nor the subtle body composed of mind and intelligence. Actually you are a spirit soul, eternal part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krsna. Therefore you are His eternal servant. You belong to Krsna's marginal potency. There are two worlds--the spiritual world and the material world--and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and spiritual worlds; therefore you are called the marginal potency. You are related with Krsna as one and simultaneously different. Because you are spirit soul, you are one in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but because you are a very minute particle of spirit soul, you are different from the Supreme Soul. Therefore your position is simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Soul. The examples given are those of the sun itself and the small particles of sunshine and of a blazing fire and the small particles of fire." Another explanation of these verses can be found in Adi-lila (Chapter Two, verse 96). Cc. Madhya 20,108-109 http://bvml.org/books/CC/madhya/20.html The creations of the marginal potency technically called the "Tatastha" Potency—are the numberless individual living souls trying to lord it over the Material Potency (Maya). The difference between the "Chit" Potency and the "Tatastha" potency is one of quantity only but almost not of quality as opposed to the difference with the "Maya" potency both in quality and in quantity. In other words quantitatively there is much difference between the "Chit" and the "Tatastha" potencies but qualitatively there is almost no difference.(3) Therefore "Tatastha" potency is in all respects superior to the "Maya" potency in relation with the "Chit" Potency. We can see therefore a perpetual endeavour on the part of the living souls to lord it over the material nature or "Maya".(4) Theosophy Ends in Vaishnavism [1944 Back to Godhead #1]Edited and Founded Under Direct Order of His Divine Grace Sri Srimad Bhakti-Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada by Goswami Abhay Charan Bhaktivedanta http://bvml.org/ACBSP/BTG/1944-1.html Vrajanatha: What is the Vedantic meaning of the word tatastha? Babaji: The space between the ocean and the land is called the tata (shore), but the place that touches the ocean is actually nothing but land, so where is the shore? The tata is the line of distinction separating the ocean and the land, and it is so fine that it cannot be seen with the gross eyes. If we compare the transcendental realm to the ocean, and the material world to the land, then tata is the subtle line that divides the two, and the jiva-sakti is situated at the place where the two meet. The jivas are like the countless atomic particles of light within the sunrays. Being situated in the middle place, the jivas see the spiritual world on one side and the material universe created by maya on the other. Just as Bhagavan’s spiritual sakti on one side is unlimited, maya-sakti on the other side is also very powerful. The innumerable subtle (suksma) jivas are situated between these two. The jivas are marginal by nature because they have manifested from Krsna’s tatasthasakti (marginal potency). Vrajanatha: What is the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)? Babaji: It is the nature that enables one to be situated between both worlds, and to see both sides. Tatastha-svabhava is the eligibility to come under the control of either of the saktis. Sometimes the shore is submerged in the river because of erosion, and then again it becomes one with the land because the river changes its course. If the jiva looks in the direction of Krsna – that is, towards the spiritual world – he is influenced by Krsna sakti. He then enters the spiritual world, and serves Bhagavan in his pure, conscious, spiritual form. However, if he looks towards maya, he becomes opposed to Krsna and is incarcerated by maya. This dual-faceted nature is called the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature). Vrajanatha: Is there any material component in the jiva’s original constitution? Babaji: No, the jiva is created solely from the cit-sakti. He can be defeated – that is, covered by maya – because he is minute by nature and lacks spiritual power, but there is not even a scent of maya in the jiva’s existence. Vrajanatha: I have heard from my teacher that when a fraction of the conscious brahma is covered by maya, it becomes the jiva. He explained the sky to be always the indivisible maha-akasa, but when a part of it is enclosed in a pot, it becomes ghata-akasa. Similarly, the jiva is originally brahma, but when that brahma is covered by maya, the false ego of being a jiva develops. Is this conception correct? Babaji: This doctrine is only Mayavada. How can maya touch brahma? The Mayavadis propose that brahma has no sakti (luptasakti), so how can maya – which is a sakti – possibly approach brahma, if sakti is supposed to be non-existent? The conclusion is that maya cannot possibly cover brahma and cause such a miserable condition. Conversely, if we accept the transcendental sakti (parasakti) of brahma, how can maya, which is an insignificant sakti, defeat the cit-sakti and create the jiva from brahma? Besides, brahma is indivisible, so how can such a brahma be divided? The idea that maya can act upon brahma is not acceptable. Maya plays no role in the creation of the jivas. Admittedly, the jiva is only atomic, but even so, it is still superior as a tattva to maya. Vrajanatha: Once another teacher said that the jiva is nothing but a reflection of brahma. The sun is reflected in water, and similarly, brahma becomes jiva when it is reflected in maya. Is this conception correct? Babaji: Again this is simply another example of Mayavada philosophy. Brahma has no limits, and a limitless entity can never be reflected. The idea of limiting brahma is opposed to the conclusions of the Vedas, so this theory of reflection is to be rejected. Vrajanatha: A dig-vijaya sannyasi once told me that in reality there is no substance known as jiva. One only thinks of himself as a jiva because of illusion, and when the illusion is removed, there is only one indivisible brahma. Is this correct or not? Babaji: This is also Mayavada doctrine which has no foundation at all. According to sastra, ekam evadvitiyam: “There is nothing apart from brahma.” If there is nothing except brahma, where has the illusion come from, and who is supposed to be in illusion? If you say that brahma is in illusion, you are saying that brahma is not actually brahma; rather, it is insignificant. And if you propose that illusion is a separate and independent element, you negate the undivided oneness (advaya-jnana) of brahma. Vrajanatha: Once an influential brahmana pandita arrived in Navadvipa, and in a conference of intellectuals, he established that only the jiva exists. His theory was that this jiva creates everything in his dreams, and it is because of this that he enjoys happiness and suffers distress. Then, when the dream breaks, he sees that he is nothing but brahma. To what extent is this idea correct? Babaji: This is, again, Mayavada. If, as they say, brahma is undifferentiated, how can it possibly produce the jiva and his dreaming state? Mayavadis use examples, such as, ‘the illusion of seeing mother-of-pearl in an oyster shell as gold’ and ‘the illusion of taking a rope to be a snake,’ but their philosophy cannot provide a consistent basis for advaya-jnana. Vrajanatha: So maya has nothing whatever to do with creating the svarupa of the jivas – this has to be accepted. At the same time, I have also clearly understood that the jiva is by nature subject to the influence of maya. Now I want to know, did the cit-sakti create the jivas and give them their tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)? Babaji: No, the cit-sakti is paripurna-sakti, the complete potency of Krsna, and its manifestations are all eternally perfect substances.The jiva is not nitya-siddha, although when he performs sadhana, he can become sadhana-siddha and enjoy transcendental happiness like the nitya-siddhas, eternally perfect beings. All the four types of Srimati Radhika’s sakhis are nitya-siddha, and they are direct expansions (kaya-vyuha) of the cit-sakti, Srimati Radhika Herself. All the jivas, on the other hand, have manifested from Sri Krsna’s jiva-sakti. The cit-sakti is Sri Krsna’s complete sakti, whereas the jiva-sakti is His incomplete sakti. Just as the complete tattvas are all transformations of the complete potency, similarly innumerable atomic, conscious jivas are transformations of the incomplete sakti. Sri Krsna, being established in each of His saktis, manifests His svarupa according to the nature of that sakti. When He is situated in the cit-svarupa, He manifests His svarupa as Sri Krsna and also as Narayana, the Lord of Paravyoma; when He is situated in the jiva-sakti, He manifests His svarupa as His vilasa-murti of Vraja, Baladeva; and being established in the maya-sakti, He manifests the three Visnu forms: Karanodakasayi, Ksirodakasayi and Garbhodakasayi. In His Krsna form in Vraja, He manifests all the spiritual affairs to the superlative degree. In His Baladeva svarupa as sesa-tattva, He manifests nitya-mukta-parsada-jivas, eternally liberated associates, who render eight types of service to Krsna sesitattva-svarupa, the origin of sesa-tattva. Again, as sesa-rupa Sankarsana in Paravyoma, He manifests eight types of servants to render eight kinds of services as eternally liberated associates of sesi-rupa Narayana. Maha-Visnu, who is an avatara of Sankarsana, situates Himself in the jiva-sakti, and in His Paramatma svarupa, He manifests the jivas who have the potential to be involved in the material world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya, and unless they attain the shelter of the hladini-sakti of the cit-sakti by Bhagavan’s mercy, the possibility of their being defeated by maya remains. The countless conditioned jivas who have been conquered by maya are subordinate to the three modes of material nature. Bearing all this in mind, the siddhanta is that it is only the jiva-sakti, and not the cit-sakti, that manifests the jivas. Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we accept that it is eternal? Babaji: The time and space that you experience in this material world are completely different from time and space in the spiritual world. Material time is divided into three aspects: past, present and future. However, in the spiritual world there is only one undivided, eternally present time. Every event of the spiritual world is eternally present. Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say – “The jivas were created,” “The spiritual world was manifested,” or “There is no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas,” – material time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jiva and spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter. Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization. All Vaisnavas say that the jiva is an eternal servant of Krsna, that his eternal nature is to serve Krsna, and that he is now bound by maya, because he has forgotten that eternal nature. However, everyone knows that the jiva is an eternal entity, of which there are two types: nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. The subject has been explained in this way only because the conditioned human intellect being controlled by pramada (inattentiveness), is unable to comprehend a subject matter. Realized sadhakas, though, experience transcendental truth through their cit-samadhi. Our words always have some material limitation, so whatever we say will have some mayika defects. My dear son, you should always endeavor to realize the pure truth. Logic and argument cannot help at all in this regard, so it is futile to use them to try to understand inconceivable subject matters. I know that you will not be able to understand these subjects in a moment, but as you cultivate these transcendental moods within your heart, you will realize cinmaya-bhava more and more. In other words, all the transcendental moods will manifest themselves in the core of your purified heart. Your body is material, and all the activities of your body are also material, but the essence of your being is not material; you are an atomic conscious entity. The more you know yourself, the more you will be able to realize how your svarupa is a tattva superior to the world of maya. Even if I tell you, you will not realize it, or simply be hearing you will not attain it. Cultivate the practice of chanting hari-nama as much as possible. As you go on chanting hari-nama, these transcendental bhavas will begin to manifest in your heart automatically, and to the degree that they do so, you will be able to realize the transcendental world. Mind and speech both have their origin in matter, and they cannot touch the transcendental truth, even with the greatest endeavor. The Vedas say in Taittiriya Upanisad (2.9) yato vaco nivartante aprapya manasa saha The speech and the mind return from brahma, being unable to attain Him. I advise you not to inquire about this matter from anyone, but to realize it yourself. I have just given you an indication (abhasa). Jaiva Dharma, Ch. 15 http://bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html http://bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html<o:p"]

At this point Sannyasi Thakura with folded hands said, “Prabhu, I am constantly witnessing the super-excellence of the spotless vaisnava-dharma which Sri Sacinandana has revealed, and I have clearly realized the contemptible nature of Sankaracarya’s monisticdoctrine. Still, something has come to my mind, which I feel I must submit to you; I don’t want to hide it. I understand that mahabhava, which was displayed by Sri Caitanya, is the highest state of concentrated prema. Is it different from the attainment of the perfection of absolute oneness (advaita-siddhi)?” When Paramahamsa Babaji heard the name of Sri Sankaracarya, he offered prostrated obeisances unto the acarya and said, “Respected sir, sankarah sankarah saksat: ’Sankaracarya is none other than Mahadeva-Sankara, or Sivaji.’ You should always remember this. Sankara is guru for the Vaisnavas, and for this reason Mahaprabhu has referred to him as acarya (spiritual preceptor). For his own part, Sri Sankara was a perfect Vaisnava. “At the time Sri Sankara’s appeared in India, there was a great need for a guna-avatara like him, an incarnation who presides over the qualities of material nature. The study of the Vedic sastras and the practice of varnasrama-dharma had become practically extinct in India due to the influence of sunyavada (voidism), the nihilistic Buddhist philosophy. Sunyavada is vehemently opposed to the personal conception of Bhagavan. Although it partially accepts the principle of the living being’s identity as a conscious, spiritual soul (jivatma), it is an extreme example of anitya-dharma(impermanent religion). The brahmanas of that era had abandoned the Vedic dharma and had in effect all become Buddhists. At that point, Sankaracarya appeared as an extremely powerful incarnation of Mahadeva. He re-established the credibility of the Vedic literatures and converted the sunyavada doctrine of voidism into the brahmavada doctrine of nirvisesa (featureless) brahma. This was an extraordinary feat, and India will remain ever indebted to Sri Sankaracarya for this tremendous contribution. “All activities in this world fall into one of two categories: some are relative to a particular period of time, and some are applicable for all time. The work of Sankaracarya was relative to a particular period and bestowed tremendous benefit. Sankaracarya laid the foundation upon which great acaryas such as Sri Ramanujacarya erected the edifice of pure vaisnava-dharma. Consequently, Sankaravatara was a great friend and preceptor who pioneered vaisnava-dharma. “Vaisnavas are now reaping the fruit of Sankaracarya’s philosophical precepts. For the jivas who are bound by matter, there is a great need for sambandha-jnana, knowledge of the soul’s entanglement in material nature and of his relationship with Bhagavan. Sankaracarya and the Vaisnavas both accept that the sentient living entities in this material world are completely distinct and separate from their gross and subtle material bodies, that the jivasare spiritually existent, and that liberation (mukti) entails giving up all connection with this material world. Consequently, there is a great deal of agreement between the doctrine of Sankara and that of the Vaisnava acaryas, up to the point of liberation. Sankara has even taught that the worship of Sri Hari is the method by which one can purify the heart and attain liberation. He has only remained silent regarding what extraordinary destination the jiva attains after liberation. “Sankara knew perfectly well that if the jivas could be prompted to strive for liberation through the worship of Hari, they would gradually become attached to the pleasure of bhajana and thus become suddha-bhaktas, pure devotees. That is why he simply pointed out the path and didn’t reveal further confidential secrets of vaisnava-dharma. Those who have scrutinized the commentaries of Sankara can understand his inner intention, but those who are only preoccupied with the external aspect of his teachings remain far from the threshold of vaisnava-dharma. “From one specific point of view, the perfected state of absolute oneness (advaita-siddhi) seems identical to prema. However, the narrow interpretation of absolute oneness is certainly different from the meaning of prema. What is prema? You should understand clearly that prema is the unadulterated function by which two transcendental entities are spontaneously attracted to each other. Prema cannot occur without the separate existence of two transcendental entities. Krsna-prema is the dharma by which all transcendental entities are eternally attracted to the supreme transcendent Entity, Sri Krsnacandra. The ideology of prema rests on the eternally established truths that Krsnacandra has His own eternal, separate existence, and that the jivas have their own eternal, separate existence, following His leadership (anugatya); and that this prema-tattva is also an eternally perfect truth (nityasiddha- tattva). The distinct presence of three seperate ingredients– the relisher, the object of relish, and the act of relishing – is a fact. If the relisher of prema and the object of relish are one and the same, then prema cannot be an eternal reality. “We can say that absolute oneness or advaita-siddhi is the same as prema if we define advaita-siddhi as the pure state of a transcendental entity who has no relationship with insentient matter. This conception of advaita-siddhi implies oneness in the sense that spiritual entities have become one in their spiritual nature and function (cid-dharma). However, modern scholars who have adopted the doctrine of Sankara are not satisfied with this idea, and they have tried to establish that spiritual entities, cid-vastu have themselves become indistinguishably one and the same substance. In so doing, they have disregarded the true Vedic conception of non-distinction and have propagated a distorted version in its place. Vaisnavas declare this philosophy to be opposed to the Vedas because it denies the eternality of prema. “Sankaracarya described the state of non-distinction simply as the unadulterated condition of spiritual substance. However, his modern-day followers could not understand his inner intention, and consequently they have marred their guru’s reputation by teaching a thoroughly debased doctrine known as Mayavada, which describes the various states of prema as illusory phenomena. “Mayavadis deny from the very outset that anything exists except the one spiritual substance (brahma), and they also deny that the function of prema exists within that spiritual substance. They claim that brahma is beyond the influence of maya as long as it remains in a state of oneness, but that brahma becomes overwhelmed by maya when it becomes embodied and takes on various shapes in the form of jivas. Consequently, they believe that the form of Bhagavan is an illusory manifestation. In reality, though, His form is eternally pure and constituted of concentrated consciousness. For this reason, they have concluded that prema and its various manifestations are illusory, and that the knowledge of non-duality (advaita-jnana) is beyond the influence of maya. Their mistaken conception of advaita-siddhi or oneness can never be equated with prema. “Sri Caitanyadeva instructed the world to taste prema, and He personally taught it by His transcendental behavior and activities. This prema is completely beyond the jurisdiction of maya, and it is the highest development of the unalloyed state of perfect oneness (advaita-siddhi). The state known as mahabhava is a special transformation of this prema, in which premananda is extraordinarily powerful. Consequently, both the separateness and intimate relationship of the lover and the beloved are transported to an unprecedented state. The inconsequential theory of Mayavada is useless for understanding the subject matter of prema in any of its stages.” Sannyasi Thakura said with great reverence, “O Prabhu, My heart is deeply pierced with the realization that the Mayavada doctrine is most insignificant. Today, you have mercifully dispelled whatever lingering doubts I had in this regard. I feel a strong desire to give up wearing this Mayavada sannyasa garb.” Babaji Mahasaya said, “O Mahatma, I never give instruction on external dress. When the dharma or spiritual function of the heart becomes purified, the external dress will be set right easily and naturally. Where there is too much concern for external appearance, there is inattention to the soul’s inner function. When your heart becomes pure, you will automatically develop attachment for the external behavior of Vaisnavas, and there will be no fault if you change your external dress then. Absorb your heart completely in trying to follow the teachings of Sri Krsna Caitanya, and later you may adopt the external items of vaisnava-dharma to which you are naturally inclined. You should always remember this instruction of Sriman Mahaprabhu: markata-vairagya na kara loka dekhana yathayogya visaya bhunja’ anasakta hana antare nistha kara, bahye loka-vyavahara acirat krsna tomaya karibe uddhara Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya (16.238-239) Do not adopt markata-vairagya (external, monkey renunciation) simply to impress the general populace. You should accept without attachment whatever sense objects are appropriate for maintaining your devotional practices and give up all material desires within your heart. Internally develop staunch faith in Sri Krsna and externally carry out your worldly responsibilities in such a way that no one can detect your inner mood. If you act like this, Sri Krsna will very quickly deliver you from material existence. from: http://bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/02.html

Apparantly the index on purebhakti has a mistake on line. The author of Distinct Similarities Between Buddha and Sankara Acarya is Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja and not SBSST. Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 2 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml

Who did you hear it from? What was his source? Is it confirmed in sastra? There are many different kinds of demigods and if I remember correctly over 33 million of them. Not all of them are daivas with positions of universal management like Indra and Varuna etc. Regardless their position is exalted and not for us to judge. Those demigods that are lining up to take birth in the Sankirtana Movement, could certainly mean that since they are devotees it is their aspiration to take birth in Nabadwipa and directly associate with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, during his lila. Doesn't necessarily mean they are lining up to be born in the present day kali yuga. I heard Srila Prabhupada once mention on a morning walk in L.A. while discussing Lord Brahma's position, that there are many different levels of pure devotees as well. No one had any idea what he was talking about. The deeper meaning of His Divine Grace's statement can be better understood by reading the Brhad Bhagavatamrta of Srila Sanatana Gosvami in which you can find out about the different levels of bhakti. http://bvml.org/SSG/0.html http://bvml.org/SSG/brhad-bhagavatamrta.pdf Some additional explantion: ". . . There are actually millions of divisions of devotees, but among them five are prominent – the jnani-bhakta, suddha-bhakta, premi-bhakta, premapara-bhakta and prematura-bhakta. . . . The first category of devotees in the five kinds of pure devotion is Prahlada Maharaja, who is a jnani-bhakta. Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana and Sanat-kumara, in their first stage, were jnani-bhaktas, and Grandfather Bhisma was also a jnani-bhakta. It is not easy to be like them. They were bhaktas, not voidists or impersonalists (nirvisesa-vadis). They didn’t follow Sankaracaryas’s theory. They never said, “I am Brahma – I am that Supreme Impersonal Being.” They knew that Lord Krsna is Parabrahma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is a strong conception (jnana) of the opulence of Krsna in their hearts, so they are jnani-bhaktas. The four Kumaras were even speakers of asta-kaliya-lila. Bhisma Pitama is a very exalted devotee and is one of the 12 mahajanas; but he is not a suddha-bhakta, in the sense that he cannot render direct personal service. Prahlada Maharaja meditated on Lord Krsna. Bhismadeva can meditate and the four Kumaras can also meditate. But they consider that their Lord is never hungry, He has no thirst, and He never gets tired – so there is no need for giving him a massage, for example – as Hanuman massages Lord Rama. They never render personal service. Pure bhakti is “anukulyena krsnanu-silanam”. There must be some service. A pure devotee will serve his Lord. But jnani-bhaktas have nothing to do, because they always think, “He is our savior, protector, and worshipable Lord.” Now we will explain how Prahlada Maharaja is a jnani-bhakta. He had no worldly desires at all. Lord Nrsimhadeva appeared to him and said, “You may ask any boon from me.” Prahlada Maharaja replied, “I am not a business person. If I have any worldly desire, please take it away.” Lord Nrsimhadeva insisted, “You must choose a boon.” Prahlada Maharaja wanted his father to be liberated, and he also requested, “I want all non-devotees in this world to be free from the endless pain of birth and death and be liberated; and in turn, I will suffer for them.” Lord Nrsimhadeva wept and thought, “What a glorious devotee!” Prahlada Maharaja is a pure devotee. His jnana does not mean nirvsesa-jnana – the misconception that the ultimate truth is impersonal. Rather, his jnana is aisvarya-jnana. We see here that there is not so much mamata (sense of “my-ness”) towards the Lord and no service, because of knowledge of the Lord’s opulence. You can read the pastimes of Lord Nrsimhadeva and Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-bhagavatam if you want to know more. Next is Ambarisa Maharaja, who was a suddha-bhakta. Ambarisa Maharaja was a sadhaka. Prahlada Maharaja was liberated, and yet Ambarisa Maharaja’s bhakti was superior to that of Prahlada in some sense – because he was actively engaged in serving Lord Krsna. He stayed in Vrndavana for some time, doing parikrama of Vraja-mandala – Kesi-ghata, Vamsi-vata, Rasa-sthali, Nandagaon and Varsana. He even used to go to Radha-kunda and Syama-kunda. Although he was a sadhaka, he had a special mamata for Krsna, the beloved of the gopis. Prahlada Maharaja has never been to Vrndavana. Sanaka and Sanandana the other Kumara brothers were in Haridvar. So Ambarisa Maharaja was very fortunate. Superior to Ambarisa Maharaja is Hanuman. Hanuman is a premi-bhakta. He is liberated and is serving Rama, and he has so much mamata for Him. He discovered Sita in Lanka and he carried Rama on his shoulders. Ambarisa Maharaja could not do so. Ambarisa Maharaja was thinking of serving – in other words he was serving with his internally conceived spiritual form within; but externally he was in the body of a sadhaka (practitioner), which could serve the deity but not the Lord in His pastimes. On the other hand, Hanuman was actually serving Rama with his body. Hanuman serves Rama in all respects. Some knowledge of Rama’s opulence is present in his heart, but very rarely. Hanuman has aisvarya-jnana, but not always. He considered that his Lord was sometimes hungry, so he would bring so many fruits from the forest. When Ravana stole Sita, Hanuman jumped over the ocean and found her. He also burnt Lanka and returned to Rama. He thought, “I am qualified to kill Ravana, but I desire that he be killed by Lord Rama.” He wanted to take Sita on his back and bring her to Rama, but she denied to do so and said, “Rama should come, and finish this entire dynasty of demons.” The Pandavas are still more superior. They are called prema-para bhaktas. Hanuman can carry Rama and Laksmana on his shoulders, but he cannot sit on their shoulders. He cannot give his food remnants to Rama, thinking, “Oh, this is very sweet. Let me give some to Rama.” He fears to do so, because knowledge of Rama’s opulence is somewhat present. Opulence is somewhat of an obstacle, so although he is so high a devotee, there is some obstruction in his flow of devotion. Lord Rama himself told Hanuman, “I am Krsna. Obey me and also help Arjuna. Always sit on top of his chariot and continually help him to conquer Duryodhana.” So not only did Krsna become the servant of the Pandavas, but Hanuman did as well. [On the following night in Volgograd, Srila Narayana Maharaja told his audience about the devotion of Sri Uddhava, as an example of the prematura-bhakta, and finally he told about the love in separation of the gopis and especially Srimati Radharani.] Divisions of Devotion http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20040915.shtml

What you may have read was an editing mistake in a purport in the SB.(perhaps 8th or 9th Canto) If I can find the exact reference I will post it. "Brahma" was misprinted. It should have read "Brahman." The jiva can fall from Brahman, not the jiva can fall from Brahma. This letter from Srila Gour Govinda maharaja should clarify the matter for you. September 6, 1995 My Dear Kavi Karnapura dasa, Hare Krsna. May you have the blessings of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga all the time. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your letter dated the 2nd of August, 1995. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents. It is quite clear, according to the statements of Guru, sadhu and sastra that one who is occupying the post of Lord Brahma cannot fall down from that position. In the fourth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam you will find that Lord Siva states: sva-dharma-nisthah sata-janmabhih puman virincatam eti tatah param hi mam avyakrtam bhagavato 'tha vaisnavam padam yathaham vibudhah kalatyaye (SB 4.24.29) "A person who executes his occupational duty properly for one hundred births becomes qualified to occupy the post of Brahma, and if he becomes more qualified, he can approach Lord Siva. A person who is directly surrendered to Lord Krsna, or Visnu, in unalloyed devotional service is immediately promoted to the spiritual planets. Lord Siva and other demigods attain these planets after the destruction of this material world." So, one who has executed sva dharma, varnasrama dharma for one hundred births, thenhe become eligible to occupy the post of virinci, Lord Brahma. Who has done even mroe pious activities, he can approach Lord Siva, "he comes to me", Lord Siva says. But a vaisnava who is completely surrendered, a dear devotee, premi bhakta, he directly goes to the Lord's own abode. He doesn't have to wait until the end of the kalpa. When complete annihilation takes place at the end of the kalpa, kalpa kseya (which takes place at the end of Lord Brahma's life) Lord Siva states, "then we'll go." Lord Siva and he who occupies the post of Brahma both return to the Lord's abode at the end of the kalpa Sivaji himself says so. So then how is it possible that Lord Brahma fall and becomes an ant? Where is it in sastra? The Lord states in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, kona kalpe yadi yogya jiva nahi paya apane isvara tabe amse 'brahma' haya Madhya 20.305 Who is eligible to take up the post of Lord Brahma? The Lord says, "If in a kalpa a suitable living entity is not available to take charge of Brahma's post, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself personally expands and becomes Lord Brahma." Such is the highly elevated position of Lord Brahma. Again it is stated in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta that Lord Brahma is botha guna avatara as well as a saktyavesa avatar. garbhodakasayi-dvara sakti sancari' vyasti srsti kare krsna brahma-rupa dhari' (Madhya 20:303 "Such a devotee is empowered by Garbhodakasayi Visnu. In this way, an incarnation of Krsna in the form of Brahma engineers the total creation of the universe. " jiva-rupa 'brahmara' avesavatara-nama (Madhya 20:369) "When a living being is empowered to act as Lord Brahma, he is also considered a saktyavesa-avatara." So it is clear that Brahma is an incarnation of the Lord, how is it possible for him to fall down? In Srimad Bhagavatam, sixth canto, a list of the twelve mahajanas is given, svayambhur naradah sambhuh kumarah kapilo manuh prahlado janako bhismo balir vaiyasakir vayam SB 6.3.20 "Svayambhur" is Lord Brahma. He is the first Mahajana listed. How will he be considred a Mahajana is he is subject to fall down? Our Sampradaya is the Brahma-Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Lord Bramha is the head of our sampradaya. if the head of the sampradaya will fall, then how will it be a bona-fide ampradaya? All of these points are simple to understand. So, my question now is, did Hari Sauri raise all of these points to Srila Prabhupada? Did he ask for further clarification? You may ask him if he got explanation from Srila Prabhupada on these points. What is Srila Prabhupada's reply I would like to hear. Because of so much evidence to the contrary, therefore I say that some editing mistake may have occured. Lord Brahma can never fall from his position. Rather, the point is that if one enters the Brahman region, from there he falls down. From there he enters this material world in the lower species of life. Srila Prabhupada states that, "The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Pesonality of Godhead." This is Srila Prabhupada's own conclusion as given in his purport to Srimad bhagavatam 4.30.5. In the Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Sri Ramananda Raya explains in reply to the question posed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. "mukti, bhukti cvanche yei kahan dunhara gati?" "sthavara-deha, deva-dea yaiche avasthiti" "And what is that destination of those who desire liberation and those who desire sense gratification?" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked. Ramanada Raya replied, "Those who attempt to merge into the existence of the Supreme Lord will have to accept a body like that of a tree. And those who are overly inclined towards sense gratification will attain bodies of demigods." So Ramananda Raya explains that those who enter the Brahman region . . .there and enter the lower species, sthavara janma. The are born as trees or mountains. Fall down is from Brahman, not Brahma. It appears that some mistake has been made in editing Srila Prabhupada's words. May this letter find you in good health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness. Your ever well wisher, (signature) 6/9/95 Gour Govinda Swami

Srimati Radhika has five kinds of sakhis (gopi friends): sakhi, nitya-sakhi, prana-sakhi, priya-sakhi and priya-narma-sakhis. 1. Sakhis--Danistha is an example. These sakhis love and serve Srimati Radhika and Krsna, but they are slightly more inclined towards Krsna. 2. Nitya--sakhis and 3. prana--sakhis are the only two kinds of sakhis who are in the category of tad-tad-bhava-icchatmika. It is their service that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu ultimately came to give the jivas. These sakhis serve both Radha and Krsna, with a tendency to favor Srimati Radhika and render service to Her. They obey only Her. The prana-sakhis, like Rupa manjari and Rati manjari, being even more intimately connected with Her, are naturally the leaders of the nitya-sakhis. 4. Priya-sakhis and 5. priya-narma-sakhis--Lalita and Visakha are examples. Among the sakhis the priya-sakhis and the priya-narma-sakhis are most dear, and they both serve yugala-kisora, the divine youthful couple, but with a slight tendency towards Srimati Radhika. Both these sakhis have so much power that they can sometimes chastise Radhika and at other times chastise Krsna. The difference between the nitya and prana-sakhis, and the priya and priya-narma-sakhis is that the nitya-sakhis and prana-sakhis are called manjaris. They do not do anything for their own personal relationship with Krsna. They do everything for Srimati Radhika. They have no desire to taste anything for themselves. This bhava, which is called tad-tad-bhava-icchatmika, is also unnata-ujjvala-rasa. It is this type of unnata-ujjvala-rasa that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to distribute. This is a very high topic and I am speaking it for only a very few, rare persons. excerpted from: The Purpose of Lord Caitanya's Descent [Excerpted from Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja's "Nectar Sprinkles on Australia"] http://bvml.org/SBNM/tpolcd.htm

I found this very interesting article: Modern Buddha and Vishnu Avatar Buddha are Different by Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaja http://bvml.org/SBBTM/mbavabad.html excerpt: It is said that Sakyasimha Buddha, the son of Suddhodana and Maya, and Buddha-avatara, the Vaishnavas’ object of adoration, are not one and the same person. Our Most Revered Nityalilapravishta Om Vishnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada has clearly said, “Sakyasimha Buddha was merely a vastly learned person, so we cannot call him the original Buddha or Lord Buddha.” . . . Thus, Sugata Buddha and Sunyavadi (Sakyasimha) Buddha are not the same person. Further evidence is found in Mr. H.T.Colebrooke’s Amarakosha, published at Ramapura in 1807. It is written in Chapter 21, Page 178 of Lalitavistara-grantha that Gautama Buddha performed penances at the same place as the previous Buddha (Vishnu-avatara Buddha). Maybe it is for this reason that in later ages he and Lord Buddha are considered as being one:" ************************************************* Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura wrote an article titled: Distinct Similarities Between Buddha and Sankara Acarya Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 2 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja also explained similar points in his book Vaisnava Vijaya. He said that Sripad Sankaracarya allowed the confusion with regard to Lord Buddha, to go on because the Buddhist nihilistic philosophy was a convenient basis on which he could preach mayavada philosophy. This article appears in Rays of the Harmonist: Two Separate Opinions On Buddha Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 1 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml

A Godbrother following this thread sent me these references, so I am passing them on to you: Following in the Footsteps of Saintly Persons In the Skanda Purana it is advised that a devotee follow the past acaryas and saintly persons, because by such following one can achieve the desired results, with no chance of lamenting or being baffled in his progress. The scripture known as Brahma-yamala states as follows: "If someone wants to pose himself as a great devotee without following the authorities of the revealed scriptures, then his activities will never help him to make progress in devotional service. Instead, he will simply create disturbances for the sincere students of devotional service." Those who do not strictly follow the principles of revealed scriptures are generally called sahajiyas--those who have imagined everything to be cheap, who have their own concocted ideas, and who do not follow the scriptural injunctions. Such persons are simply creating disturbances in the discharge of devotional service. In this connection, an objection may be raised by those who are not in devotional service and who do not care for the revealed scriptures. An example of this is seen in Buddhist philosophy. Lord Buddha appeared in the family of a high-grade ksatriya king, but his philosophy was not in accord with the Vedic conclusions and therefore was rejected. Under the patronage of a Hindu king, Maharaja Asoka, the Buddhist religion was spread all over India and the adjoining countries. However, after the appearance of the great stalwart teacher Sankaracarya, this Buddhism was driven out beyond the borders of India. The Buddhists or other religionists who do not care for revealed scriptures sometimes say that there are many devotees of Lord Buddha who show devotional service to Lord Buddha, and who therefore should be considered devotees. In answer to this argument, Rupa Gosvami says that the followers of Buddha cannot be accepted as devotees. Although Lord Buddha is accepted as an incarnation of Krsna, the followers of such incarnations are not very advanced in their knowledge of the Vedas. To study the Vedas means to come to the conclusion of the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore any religious principle which denies the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead is not accepted and is called atheism. Atheism means defying the authority of the Vedas and decrying the great acaryas who teach Vedic scriptures for the benefit of the people in general. Lord Buddha is accepted as an incarnation of Krsna in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, but in the same Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that Lord Buddha appeared in order to bewilder the atheistic class of men. Therefore his philosophy is meant for bewildering the atheists and should not be accepted. If someone asks, "Why should Krsna propagate atheistic principles?" the answer is that it was the desire of the Supreme Personality of Godhead to end the violence which was then being committed in the name of the Vedas. The so-called religionists were falsely using the Vedas to justify such violent acts as meat-eating, and Lord Buddha came to lead the fallen people away from such a false interpretation of the Vedas. Also, for the atheists Lord Buddha preached atheism so that they would follow him and thus be tricked into devotional service to Lord Buddha, or Krsna. HDGACBSP Nectar of Devotion (Summary study of Srila Rupa Gosvami's Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu) SB Canto 8 Ch.3 text 8-12 TEXTS 8-9 na vidyate yasya ca janma karma va na nama-rupe guna-dosa eva va tathapi lokapyaya-sambhavaya yah sva-mayaya tany anukalam rcchati tasmai namah paresaya brahmane 'nanta-saktaye arupayoru-rupaya nama ascarya-karmane SYNONYMS na--not; vidyate--there is; yasya--of whom (the Supreme Personality of Godhead); ca--also; janma--birth; karma--activities; va--or; na--nor; nama-rupe--any material name or material form; guna--qualities; dosah--fault; eva--certainly; va--either; tathapi--still; loka--of this cosmic manifestation; apyaya--who is the destruction; sambhavaya--and creation; yah--He who; sva-mayaya--by His own potency; tani--activities; anukalam--eternally; rcchati--accepts; tasmai--unto Him; namah--I offer my obeisances; para--transcendental; isaya--who is the supreme controller; brahmane--who is the Supreme Brahman (Parabrahman); ananta-saktaye--with unlimited potency; arupaya--possessing no material form; uru-rupaya--possessing various forms as incarnations; namah--I offer my obeisances; ascarya-karmane--whose activities are wonderful. TRANSLATION The Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material birth, activities, name, form, qualities or faults. To fulfill the purpose for which this material world is created and destroyed, He comes in the form of a human being like Lord Rama or Lord Krsna by His original internal potency. He has immense potency, and in various forms, all free from material contamination, He acts wonderfully. He is therefore the Supreme Brahman. I offer my respects to Him. PURPORT In the Visnu Purana it is said, gunams ca dosams ca mune vyatita samasta-kalyana-gunatmako hi. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material form, qualities or faults. He is spiritual and is the only reservoir of all spiritual qualities. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (4.8) by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. The Lord's activities of saving the devotees and annihilating the demons are transcendental. Anyone annihilated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead gets the same result as a devotee who is protected by the Lord; both of them are transcendentally promoted. The only difference is that a devotee goes directly to the spiritual planets and becomes an associate of the Supreme Lord, whereas demons are promoted to brahmaloka, the impersonal effulgence of the Lord. Both of them, however, are transcendentally promoted. The Lord's killing or annihilating of the demons is not exactly like the killing of this material world. Although He appears to act within the modes of material nature, He is nirguna, above the modes of nature. His name is not material; otherwise how could one get liberation by chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Rama? The names of the Lord like Rama and Krsna are nondifferent from the person Rama and Krsna. Thus by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra one constantly associates with Rama and Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and therefore becomes liberated. A practical example is Ajamila, who always remained transcendental to his activities simply by chanting the name Narayana. If this was true of Ajamila, what is to be said of the Supreme Lord? When the Lord comes to this material world, He does not become a product of matter. This is confirmed throughout Bhagavad-gita (janma-karma ca me divyam, avajananti mam mudhah manusim tanum asritam). Therefore, when the Supreme Personality of Godhead--Rama or Krsna--descends to act transcendentally for our benefit, we should not consider Him an ordinary human being. When the Lord comes, He does so on the basis of His spiritual potency (sambhavamy atma-mayaya). Because He is not forced to come by the material energy, He is always transcendental. One should not consider the Supreme Lord an ordinary human being. Material names and forms are contaminated, but spiritual name and spiritual form are transcendental. TEXT 10 nama atma-pradipaya saksine paramatmane namo giram viduraya manasas cetasam api SYNONYMS namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; atma-pradipaya--unto He who is self-effulgent or who gives enlightenment to the living entities; saksine--who is situated in everyone's heart as a witness; parama-atmane--unto the Supreme Soul, the Supersoul; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; giram--by words; viduraya--who is impossible to reach; manasah--by the mind; cetasam--or by consciousness; api--even. TRANSLATION I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the self-effulgent Supersoul, who is the witness in everyone's heart, who enlightens the individual soul and who cannot be reached by exercises of the mind, words or consciousness. PURPORT The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, cannot be understood by the individual soul through mental, physical or intellectual exercises. It is by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that the individual soul is enlightened. Therefore, the Lord is described here as atma-pradipa. The Lord is like the sun, which illuminates everything and cannot be illuminated by anyone. Therefore, if one is serious about understanding the Supreme, one must receive enlightenment from Him, as instructed in Bhagavad-gita. One cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by one's mental, physical or intellectual powers. TEXT 11 sattvena pratilabhyaya naiskarmyena vipascita namah kaivalya-nathaya nirvana-sukha-samvide SYNONYMS sattvena--by pure devotional service; prati-labhyaya--unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is achieved by such devotional activities; naiskarmyena--by transcendental activities; vipascita--by persons who are sufficiently learned; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; kaivalya-nathaya--unto the master of the transcendental world; nirvana--for one completely freed from material activities; sukha--of happiness; samvide--who is the bestower. TRANSLATION The Supreme Personality of Godhead is realized by pure devotees who act in the transcendental existence of bhakti-yoga. He is the bestower of uncontaminated happiness and is the master of the transcendental world. Therefore I offer my respect unto Him. PURPORT As stated in Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be understood only by devotional service. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah. If one wants to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead in truth, one must take to the activities of devotional service. These activities are called sattva or suddha-sattva. In the material world, activities of goodness, which are symptomatic of a pure brahmana, are appreciated. But the activities of devotional service are suddha-sattva; in other words, they are on the transcendental platform. Only by devotional service can one understand the Supreme. Devotional service is called naiskarmya. Mere negation of material activity will not endure. Naiskarmyam apy acyuta-bhava-varjitam. Unless one performs activities with reference to Krsna consciousness, cessation of material activities will not be helpful. In hopes of achieving naiskarmya, freedom from material action, many highly elevated sannyasis stopped their activities, yet they failed and returned to the material platform to act as materialistic persons. But once one is engaged in the spiritual activities of bhakti-yoga, one does not fall down. Our Krsna consciousness movement is therefore an attempt to engage everyone always in spiritual activity, by which one becomes transcendental to material actions. The spiritual activities of bhakti-marga--sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam--lead one to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore, as stated here, sattvena pratilabhyaya naiskarmyena vipascita: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is realized by pure devotees who act in the transcendental existence of bhakti-yoga." The Gopala-tapani Upanisad (15) says, bhaktir asya bhajanam tad ihamutropadhi-nairasyenaivamusmin manasah kalpanam etad eva ca naiskarmyam. This is a definition of naiskarmya. One acts in naiskarmya when he fully engages in Krsna conscious activities without material desires to enjoy, either here or in the upper planetary systems, in the present life or in a future life (iha-amutra). Anyabhilasita-sunyam. When one is freed from all contamination and he acts in devotional service under the direction of the spiritual master, one is on the platform of naiskarma. By such transcendental devotional service, the Lord is served. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him. TEXT 12 namah santaya ghoraya mudhaya guna-dharmine nirvisesaya samyaya namo jnana-ghanaya ca SYNONYMS namah--all obeisances; santaya--unto He who is above all material qualities and completely peaceful, or unto Vasudeva, the Supersoul in every living entity; ghoraya--unto the fierce forms of the Lord like Jamadagnya and Nrsimhadeva; mudhaya--the form of the Lord as an animal, such as the boar; guna-dharmine--who accepts different qualities within the material world; nirvisesaya--who is without material qualities, being fully spiritual; samyaya--Lord Buddha, the form of nirvana, wherein the material qualities stop; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; jnana-ghanaya--who is knowledge or the impersonal Brahman; ca--also. TRANSLATION I offer my respectful obeisances to Lord Vasudeva, who is all-pervading, to the Lord's fierce form as Lord Nrsimhadeva, to the Lord's form as an animal [Lord Varahadeva], to Lord Dattatreya, who preached impersonalism, to Lord Buddha, and to all the other incarnations. I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Lord, who has no material qualities but who accepts the three qualities goodness, passion and ignorance within this material world. I also offer my respectful obeisances unto the impersonal Brahman effulgence. PURPORT In the previous verses it has been described that although the Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material form, He accepts innumerable forms to favor His devotees and kill the demons. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, there are so many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that they are like the waves of a river. The waves of a river flow incessantly, and no one can count how many waves there are. Similarly, no one can calculate when and how the different incarnations of the Lord appear according to the necessities of time, place and candidates. The Lord appears perpetually. As Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (4.7): yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata abhyutthanam adharmasya tadatmanam srjamy aham "Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself." In the material world there is always the possibility of deviation from Krsna consciousness, and therefore Krsna and His devotees always act in various forms to curb such godlessness. Even impersonalists who stress the knowledge feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead want to merge in the effulgence of the Lord. Therefore, here the word jnana-ghanaya indicates that for atheists who disbelieve in the form and existence of the Lord, all these various incarnations appear. Since the Lord comes to teach in so many forms, no one can say that there is no God. The word jnana-ghanaya is especially used here to refer to those whose knowledge has become solidified by dint of their searching for the Lord through speculative philosophical understanding. Superficial knowledge is useless for understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but when one's knowledge becomes extremely intense and deep, one understands Vasudeva (vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah). A jnani attains this stage after many, many births. Therefore the word jnana-ghanaya is used here. The word santaya indicates that Lord Vasudeva is situated in everyone's heart but does not act with the living entity. Impersonalist jnanis realize Vasudeva when they are fully mature in knowledge (vasudevah samam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah). Translation and comentary by HDGACBSP SB Canto 8 Ch.3 text 8-12

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has pointed out the dilemna for Gaudiya sadhakas in associating with proponents of mayavada doctrine: ". . . A diseased person must be under the care of a physician because he cannot cure himself. Just as one should pardon the anger of a diseased person, so one should also excuse the improper behavior of the ignorant. This attitude is known as mercy. The ignorant have many misconceptions, such as faith in karma-kanda, occasional inclination towards jnana, worshiping the Deity with ulterior motives, faith in yoga, indifference towards the association of pure Vaisnavas, attachment to varnasrama, and many other things. However, the kanistha-adhikari can quickly become a madhyamaadhikari when these misconceptions are dispelled by good association, mercy, and good instructions. When such people begin to worship the Deity of Bhagavan, it may be understood that they have laid the foundation of all auspiciousness. Of this there is no doubt. They do not have the defect of adhering to false doctrines, and for this reason they have a scent of true sraddha. Their Deity worship is not like that of the Mayavadis, who do not have even a trace of sraddha for the Deity, and who are offenders at the lotus feet of Bhagavan. That is why the words sraddhaya ihate, (he worships with faith), have been used in the sloka (11.2.47) that describes the kanistha-bhakta. The philosophical outlook lodged in the heart of Mayavadis and proponents of other similar doctrines is that Bhagavan has no form and that the Deity which is worshiped is simply an imaginary icon. Under such circumstances, how can there be any faith in the Deity? As a result there is a significant difference between Deity worship of Mayavadis and that of even the most neophyte Vaisnavas. Kanistha-adhikari Vaisnavas worship the Deity with faith, knowing that Bhagavan possesses personal form and attributes. Mayavadis, however, believe that Bhagavan has no form or attributes, and that the Deity is therefore imaginary and temporary. Neophytes are not guilty of the offense of Mayavada, and that is why they are accepted as prakrta Vaisnavas (materialistic devotees), even though they do not possess any other Vaisnava characteristics. This is where their Vaisnavism is found. On the strength of this one quality, and by the mercy of sadhus, they will certainly gradually be elevated. Madhyama-adhikari Vaisnavas must be genuinely merciful towards such people, and if they are, the neophyte bhakta’s worship of the Deity and his chanting of hari-nama will quickly rise from the abhasa stage to the purely transcendental stage. The madhyama Vaisnava’s fourth characteristic is neglect towards those who are inimical. Here we must define enmity and describe its different types. Dvesa, enmity, is a particular attitude which is also known as matsarata, envy, and which is exactly the opposite of love. Isvara is the only object of love, and dvesa is the attitude that is directly opposite to love for Him. There are five different types of dvesa: absence of faith in Isvara; the belief that Isvara is nothing more than a natural potency that brings about the results of all action; the belief that Isvara has no particular form; the belief that the jivas are not eternally subordinate to Isvara; and the absence of mercy. Individuals whose hearts are contaminated by these inimical attitudes are absolutely bereft of suddha-bhakti. They do not even have prakrta-bhakti, the rudimentary devotion that is the doorway to suddha-bhakti, and which is represented by the neophyte bhakta’s worship of the Deity. The five types of enmity are found to coexist with attachment to material sense enjoyment. Sometimes the third and fourth types of enmity lead to such an extreme form of asceticism or aversion towards the world that it culminates in self-annihilation. This is seen in the lives of the Mayavada sannyasis. How should suddha-bhaktas behave towards such inimical people? It is their duty to avoid them. The word upeksa, neglect, does not imply that one should abandon all social dealings that are normal between human beings. Nor does it mean that one should fail to alleviate an inimical person’s difficulty or deprivation if he falls into distress. Grhastha Vaisnavas remain within society, so they have many types of relationships, for instance, with relatives through marriage, and with others through business dealings, through the maintenance of property and bringing up of animals, through endeavoring to mitigate the suffering and ailments of others, and through their position as citizens of the state. These different social relations entail connection with inimical people, and avoidance does not mean that one should at once give them up. One is obliged to conduct routine affairs and interact with people who are indifferent to Isvara, but one should not take their association when it comes to spiritual matters. Some members of one’s own family may acquire a malicious nature as a result of their sinful activities from a previous life. Should one abandon such people? Certainly not. One should deal with them without attachment insofar as ordinary affairs are concerned, but one should not associate with them for spiritual matters. Upeksa should be applied in this regard. Spiritual association means to meet together for the purpose of spiritual advancement, to discuss topics of eternal truth, and to render reciprocal service and welfare that awakens one’s devotional sentiments. Upeksa means avoiding the association of people with whom such types of exchange are not possible. When an inimical person who has adopted discordant or inconsistent opinions hears glorification of suddha-bhakti or virtuous instructions regarding bhakti, he will immediately retort with some futile argument which is not beneficial for you or for him. One should avoid such fruitless arguments, and interact with such people only as far as necessary in routine social dealings. One may think that one should include inimical people among the ignorant, and therefore bestow mercy upon them, but if one does so, one will not help them and will only harm oneself. One should be benevolent, but with caution.