M-dd

Dear Oddiya, So you made the choice last lifetime, and this lifetime you are stuck with it. Cause and effect, action and reaction, the law of karma is intricate and exacting. But don't despair because Krsna and His pure devotees will never reject you. The prescription is the same for your good self as it is for straight guys and gals. Chant Hare Krsna, and you will rise above your gross sexual bodily identification. All sincere aspirants have to rise above their bodily conditioning, and the first lesson is that you are not that body, gay or straight. As you progress, you will want to follow rules and regulations to aid and abet your further advancement, and at that point you will have to come to the point of giving up illicit sex. Licit sex is sex within marriage and for the purpose of raising Krsna conscious children. However you interpret this, whatever rationalizations you want to make in this regard, how closely you want to follow it, all this is between yourself and Krsna. You have a conscience, and that is Supersoul, and He will guide you, so turn within yourself sincerely and reveal your mind and heart to Him. When you are most serious about making spiritual advancement, then you must approach a bona-fide spiritual master, inquire from him submissively, and try to learn the truth, 'the self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the Truth'. I recommend you read Bhagavad-gita As It Is, thoroughly, and you will find a true connection to Supersoul. You can find it at this site, you might have to key it in though, (no it works, I just tried it)--- http://www.asitis.com/ Chant Hare Krsna. And the rest will manifest automatically in your life as you endeavour more and more sincerely to elevate yourself to the transcendental platform, ultimately finding out that such elevation comes directly via the mercy of the pure devotee. Such mercy is already upon you! Accept it and chant Hare Krsna! [This message has been edited by M-dd (edited 10-23-2001).]

Dear Leyh prabhu, Here is a sample of what comes out of valaya in response to my posting the glories of Srila Prabhupada's bringing Lord Sri Caitanya's movement to the west---- So all that was in response to the following post of mine---- So this post was attacked by valaya, exactly what I've accused him of. I hope this clarifies the real problem for all honest readers, I'm bowing out of further discussion, all are welcome to their own conclusions, mine stand as I've already stated, and I'm not afraid to say so, because I've learned to stand up to bullies.

So, what is this, acceptance? And this conclusion is in no way confirmed by scripture, which, au contraire proclaim the absolute necessity of approaching Radha-Krsna through the guru, not independently. This isn't about views or opinions. Your reaction to my words are your own feelings. I become angry only when Srila Prabhupada is slandered or his transcendental message misrepresented, and when abuse and bullying are allowed to reign, and if you can't see valaya's constant attempt to discredit him and to shut up those wishing to do the opposite, I can't help you, but be warned if you value your own creeper, for this kind of association is indeed contaminating. It's not all one, like valaya likes to say, it's one and different, we are individual, and we are not all the same, some choose to accept guru and others choose to reject. Those who reject guru should also be rejected, it's that simple. It is sad for Krsna consciousness the volume of those who wish to post in pretense while speaking poison out the other side of their mouths. I feel duty-bound to the thankless task of pointing it out when I see it, for the possible benefit of some innocent reader who might get sucked into the games these people play. I know valaya can be pretty convincing sometimes, but those are mere flowery words. I don't feel vehemence towards him, I find him laffable and pitiable. But I am beginning to feel this forum is pointless, for the truth is not being desired or pursued honestly. Did you not see all the attacks made just on this thread, in reaction to my posting the glories of Srila Prabhupada? Can't you see the enviousness in that? Perhaps you should go back and see what valaya's been saying BEFORE I got on his case, with the only provokation being my intent to establish the glories of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. That was all it took for valaya and others to come on guns blazing. Why aren't you noticing the vehement envy they are expressing?

ps. great thread!

thread after thread Wish he would just be quiet.

My Valaya, you're so into showing off your chastizements. It's almost cute, like a little boy...almost.

Sad as it is, her death sure beats the spiritual fatality of debating with or talking to your bad self as well as most others on this forum that I am quickly tiring of. You are poisonous and disgusting association. You are a killer of the soul. I have no sympathy left for you or for several others here. Attack me, go ahead, I don't read most of your posts and wouldn't click inside if I'd seen your name. I hope this ruins your day, for maybe you can still have a spiritual change of heart if you hit rock bottom. But to do that, you'd have to acknowledge just who the pure devotee guru is that benedicted us all with the association of Radhrani in Her Deity forms Whom you impersonally claim to have such intimacy with, while jumping over his head. You're a spirtually cheating looser, headed for the darkest regions of ignorance. Heed the warning if you like, or go directly on your path to hell.

'thanks in no small part to my involvement within iskcon I am unable to see clearly who is who or what is what, etc?' This is to be pitied but point is this is from one who claims to respect Prabhupada. Point is not to disturb needlessly but this ignorance has to be shown.

I also know that all these statements about His Divine Grace are true. I know, not believe. Yet due to some dislike on your part for my faulty wording, you have concluded otherwise. I also know that Srila Prabhupada has been pleased with me, and has awarded me with pure devotional service. The plug is out of the fan, maybe the blades still go around a bit, but there is no doubt the result is there and only time separates. Why do you think otherwise? Why do you think that your glorification of Srila Prabhupada is based in realization and mine in blind faith? Just because of what some of the fools here say? Or is it your own foolish pride? Huh??? I'm not challenging my beliefs! I'm challenging the offenders who wish to minimize and slander His Divine Grace to prove what I said is not true. You said much the same as me, but you apparently like your own wording far better than mine. First let me say that as a parent, I was always first and foremost interested in justice and the transmission of higher knowledge. If you intended this analogy to cite that somehow I am desperately trying to quiet the challenges to my beliefs, why on earth would I say 'debate this!'? You're not making sense. Ultimately, my purpose, which appears lost to not only the envious, but to thinking devotees like yourself too, was to silence the blasphemous ideas against Srila Prabhupada. That is not for my peace of mind, that is for the good of all souls who are otherwise contaminated by the poison. Furthermore, when one is defeated in debate, it is Vedic to accept the real conclusion and change, and I do not give up all hope for offenders to have the necessary change of heart they need to overcome their enviousness. It is really incorrect for you to make this judgement on my reasons for joining and my shraddha in Srila Prabhupada. I read Bhagavad-gita As It Is four times while joining, so when I first went to a temple I didn't need any gita verses quoted to me as to why I should perform devotional service, take prasadam and surrender to Krsna. My sraddha in His Divine Grace is based solely on the fact that I know he has planted the bhakti lata bhija within my heart, and the gita contained the answers to life that I had been searching for all my life. Nothing to do with emotions. The emotions come later, in gratitude and loving reciprocation for such causeless mercy and transcendental bliss and spiritual realizations I have been benedicted with. I have not been disappointed in my expectations, that's for sure. And so we should be giving them correct understanding, not making judgements on other devotees who are also working to correct misunderstandings. And so we see that hecklers with no understanding of Krsna consciousness have ONCE AGAIN succeeded in dividing. Just because your mind didn't appreciate my use of language does not make your conclusions here correct by any estimation. Rather, I see you are being affected now by the poison. My claims are not in the least ambiguous. You're trying to hard to appeal to those who are envious of the pure devotee. The demon is the one who is antagonistic to Krsna and His pure devotee. Let's not be so new-age-y as to think it's all one, everyone has the same dark side and if anyone disagrees with a devotee's glorification of their guru it is ok to minimize the pure devotee's activities. You are so far from any true 'debate' about this now it is very saddening to see after your previous statements of Truth. And you can can the accusation that I artificially 'created' demonic reactions in a desire to 'fight'. I didn't write a thesis, I made a statement, and I even presented evidence. As for Srila Prabhupada's 'close' disciples, who are you considering his 'close' disciples? The ones who usurped and hijacked the movement for their own aggrandizement power and fortune? Don't make me puke. As for ISKCON standing against my thesis, I stand against ISKCON in it's present state of mis-application of Srila Prabhupada's sublime method, I and thousands of other close disciples of His Divine Grace. Don't you? And your pointing this at me is simply a gross insult. When I first went to a temple it was because I wanted to engage in pure devotional service to the Lord and His devotees. I already understood gita. But so what? That will not lead me to criticize you! What, I did?!? Duh, and what, you don't? I am expressing a lot more than that. And my pain comes from the degredation to the lives of Srila Prabhupada's devotees and his mission that occurred through mis-representing the philosophy and mis-applying it. That you foresaw this happening does not make you a cut above. That it has happened, has not tainted my sraddha, nor has it tainted Srila Prabhuada's sublime transcendental message. How is it that you do not instead of attacking me, take issue with the emnity expressed re/Srila Prabhupada? I think you think you are being compassionate and magnanimous, but what you are really doing is giving envy credit that it is not due. Aspiring to be of service, Madhavi-devi dasi

And I second your motion to the moderator re/banning. Precisely. And haven't we seen the spiritual downfall on another forum in just that way, after repeated warnings from caring posters that he subside in his offensive tack? Next everyone felt sorry for him, but this is what I saw all along, what you have described. Now I feel great sadness at the thought that this individual, and many others, will not be able to see His Divine Grace chanting in every town and village of the world, while the whole rest of the world is dancing with him! I am learning what Srila Prabhupada's compassion is, but only a glimpse. Thanks, prabhu, for this great keeping the focus post! All glories to Srila Prabhupada who spread the glories of Lord Sri Caitanya all over the world! Harer Namah... And wouldn't you agree, the proposed topic remains un-knicked? Aspiring to be of service, M-d.d.

Great answer prabhu. My guru is Jagat Guru. I am speaking no ill of other gurus. About Mohammed, the fact is, what he spread in islam or wherever has nothing to do with what I said about Srila Prabhupada spreading the Holy Name to this culture, and around the world. The 'islam' followers do not follow Allah in their hate and terrorisms, as prominent muslim leaders have said, it is against Allah to kill women children and innocent people. Srila Prabhupada said a vaisnava is always a perfect gentleman. A perfect gentleman, vaisnava 'ruler', would not employ such ideas as have been suggested by both Satyaraj and karthika_v suggest. Thanks. Point taken. But don't assume the latter point. What is the point of bringing up myopic in the topic? Who is advocating not to reckognize all of Krsna's messengers? Krsna consciousness is personalism, and I am reckognizing personally that of which I have personal experience. Why should that be construed as threatening? Taking the Holy Name into the street is the message, conclusion, Every Town and Village, as Srila Prabhupada would assure us all. This is completely off the point I made. I said nothing of calling anybody lesser, so how does it apply to a debate? Anybody have those debate rules we were hearing from historic conversations of acaryas, acaryas who are worshippable, there is no shortage of acaryas, nor did I imply there was. And a real acarya will reckognize another real acarya, there is a spiritual relationship they have, and they share with us glimpses of it. Again, I said nothing of better, I spoke only of one who gives Krsna and embodies the unfathomable depth of compassion and love for all living entities fountains from a heart always in love with Krsna. Very well said. Thanks much for this post. [This message has been edited by M-dd (edited 10-05-2001).] [This message has been edited by M-dd (edited 10-05-2001).]

Sirla Prabhupada brought Krsna to the western world, making His Holy Name familiar in every town and village. The Hare Krsna's became household knowledge everywhere, due to his efforts and the extending efforts of his followers. In fact, Harinam Sankirtan appears in numerous Hollywood movies as part of our culture, solely due to the efforts of Srila Prabhupada. Thus he is qualified as world acarya, proven by this external manifestation of Lord Caitanya's empowerment, and any who follow in his wake can be understood to be exhaulted to the degree they revere and emulate his passtimes and follow his footsteps. Thus, those who speak against him and his transcendental explainations and conclusions, they are the sectarean ones. Those who try to minimize his great unrivalled transcendental feet, they are the sectarean ones. Those who try to cloud the Absolute Truth he disseminated, they are the sectarean ones. They are the envious ones. They are the ones who CANNOT deliver transcendental knowledge of Krsna, or the potency of His Holy Name. [This message has been edited by M-dd (edited 10-04-2001).]

Trouble here, Jayaradhe prabhu, is that some here have only one agenda, to squelch truth and Truth. They are pitiable and they are envious. Valaya's continued attempts to attack your words here, and elsewhere, only show himself up, not you. And Satyaraj's foolish cheering of him is stooping low even for him. For every action there is a reaction. The man who raped my 14yr old virgin daughter has become paralyzed from the neck down, he can't rape another little girl. Be warned, I say to fools, especially fools guilty of mysogenism against Srila Prabhupada's daughters and granddaughters. To create such offenses is to curse oneself. Valaya have a care, you spout out your intimacy with Radharani, yet you can't even conceive the extent of Her mercy that is already embodied in this saintly poster who is benedicting us all with her association. You on this other forum? You are not a Prabhupadanuga, that is the only qualification there. No, you don't qualify, and why would you want to qualify as his follower when you are very outspoken about NOT being his follower? I'm happy to see that she is happily unaffected by your invalidating attempts to shut her up, your mysogeny. She reminds me of the kid who is unafraid of the neighboring bullies cuz he knows his father is watching over him. Jayaradhe knows that Srila Prabhupada is watching over her, his beloved daughter, and with that love of his is included Radharani's mercy, something you are not familiar with. Now, speaking of debate, I think I'll start a new thread to not go any further off this thread's topic than it has already been veered by these envious retorts.