Maitreya

Gaurachandra,

Nice quotes.I like to ask them why God gave permission to Noah.Always they give the same answer that after the flood there was a lack of vegetation.That obviously does not apply here and now.So it comes down to they like it.Afterall, nowhere in the Bible does it say they MUST eat meat.

Anyway thanks for the quotes, I few I knew and a few I hadn't seen so I printed them out.

YS MC

 

Is It Ok for Us To Read The Books Of _______ das Babaji Maharaj From Radha Kunda?

 

Dear , I do not want to give any criticism and make an offence to any Vaisnava. But, you are asking, so I am replying. All Vaisnavas please forgive me if there is any offense.

 

 

In Radha Kunda there are many babajis. Many persons there are doing bhajana sadhana with a pure mood. But many more persons there have an impure mood. This is like introducing a slow poison into a culture, and all it's bad activities. They are writing about and translating all the

Goswamis books with nice quotations and with sweet words. But, we do not know if there is

some activity they are performing which is a weakness on their part.

This again proves my thesis that many of the GM gurus like to slander and gossip.It is so tragic and pathetic.

PD

Publicly accusing someone of being slanderous when they aren't may be slanderous in itself.

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-25-2001).]

 

Is It Ok for Us To Read The Books Of _______ das Babaji Maharaj From Radha Kunda?

 

Dear , I do not want to give any criticism and make an offence to any Vaisnava. But, you are asking, so I am replying. All Vaisnavas please forgive me if there is any offense.

 

 

In Radha Kunda there are many babajis. Many persons there are doing bhajana sadhana with a pure mood. But many more persons there have an impure mood. This is like introducing a slow poison into a culture, and all it's bad activities. They are writing about and translating all the

Goswamis books with nice quotations and with sweet words. But, we do not know if there is

some activity they are performing which is a weakness on their part.

This again proves my thesis that many of the GM gurus like to slander and gossip.It is so tragic and pathetic.

PD

Publicly accusing someone of being slanderous when they aren't may be slanderous in itself.

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-25-2001).]

I am not so tolerant as many of you.I believe those that try and justify their slaughterhouse 'culture' in the name of God and Jesus should be called on the carpet and told in no uncertain terms that their immense cruelty and real love for God and Jesus Christ cannot live together in the same heart.They will have to make a choice.

We can be polite but we must be firm.Strong forceful preaching is a tradition in the Bible.They actually respect that.

"Hey you call yourself a lover of God so why are you torturing His creation?"

The Christians do good works in the social field.They are leaders in the fight against abortion for example.Krishna hears their prayers as He hears ours.This isn't really one religion against another.It is compassion against cruelty.

The really unfortunate thing is that they link Jesus's name to this nonsense.Jesus is found with those that do the will of the Supreme Father and Friend of us all.

I say save the name of Jesus from these so-called Christians.Jesus is a Krishna-bhakta, and His Avatar.

This is an excerpt from a letter to Kirtanada from Srila Prahupada:

I am very glad to learn that Lord Jesus Christ has approved our activities. Perhaps you have marked it in my preaching work that I love Lord Jesus Christ as good as Krishna; because He rendered the greatest service to Krishna according to time circumstances and society in which He appreared. Similarly Hajrat Mohammed and Lord Buddha also rendered greatest service to the human society according to circumstances. So work with more enthusiasm and we are sure to be successful in our great mission.

MC

That's it.I'm taking the shot.This is what I get for insisting on dragging a material body into Vraja, I guess.

Thanks for the tips and stories all.There are more out there who have not yet been so fortunate to make such a journey so please fill this section with your experiences.

Somehow hearing the common srories of that land seem un common and wonderful.

MC

I am struck by Mary's calling Jndas a racist.What was that about?

3,000 an hour is tremendous.The net is such a powerful medium and it will only increase.

Someone will be turned by the article for sure.Maybe some of the burger chomping "Hindus" I see in Burger King everyday as I walk by here in Berkeley.You know who you are.

MC

Well Lord Jesus told me that Lord Krishna is the Supreme Lord.So now that that is settled,let's talk cows and the other helpless creatures of the Earth.

Why don't our Christian brethren take it that God made humans the caretakers of the Earth?Instead they take that to mean that God gave us the earth to plunder and exploit to our hearts content.

I prefer the garden vision over the slaughterhouse one.

The Mr. Krishna thing was funny, let's admit.

By the way I am a reborn Christian who chants Hare Krishna so I have license to go after everyone.

I just wanted to bring this up again.

Benjamin are you still with us?Maybe interact a little on the responses you have thus far received.

Maitreya

atma, the book is called, Message of St Francis.It was put out by Sister Nan to raise money for the restoration of the Basilca.It is a small book[57 pgs.] with color photos of the Frescoes on every page.

Just a little gem I found at the library.

I did see that movie but it was maybe 30 years ago and I remember little of it.Maybe it will come back around at some art house and I'll go again.

Simple expressions often convey a truth in a manner that is more appealing to me.I don't need to try and disect them, I just let the impression take hold.

YS MC

atma that was funny.I thought for sure the dogs were going to attack but then...

Just last year.Hmmm...that means those same dogs are still there most likely.I think I will waterproof everything I wear befor I go, just in case.

From the book Message of St Francis.I love the simplicity of this.

By the anxieties and worries of this life, the devil tries to dull our hearts and make a dwelling for himself there.And so we must all keep close watch over ourselves or we will be lost and turn our hearts and mind from God, because we think there is something worth having or doing, or that we will gain some advantage.[Rule 1221]

And these guys make big $ for this.Amazing. Its like why work when you can be a consultant and play games like these.

Oh shvu, you are just showing off.

How would you like to be that one lone Jew living in Kabul knowing that these fanatics had done a head count and know where you live.

Its fanaticide.

So it appears my hiring a helicopter to fly me across was unnecessary?

I did better the second time I took the test.Scored %50.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LOL! too funny atma

MC

atma here is something on that story of plane crash in the Andes, that you wrote of.-------------

Prabhupäda: Very good idea. Therefore I said Jesus Christ is son of God, so what he says and what Krsna says, there is no difference. This has become a hackneyed slogan, “poor feeding.” To do to the humanity—and cut the throat of the animal. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy? They have no conception of God. If he has got conception of God, then everyone—paëòitäù sama-darçinaù [bg. 5.18]. Oh, why for the benefit of the human being, other animals’ throat should be cut? Even they have no common sense. National. National means one who is born in that land. That is national. So why the animals born in that land, they are not national?

Pusta-krsna: You used a very nice example, that the children, they are ignorant but that does not mean you kill them.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Is there any meaning, “Oh, these are foolish children creating trouble, so I will kill them”? What is this?

Yogesvara: There was a story in Time magazine last week. Everyone was in a big flurry about it. An airplane crashed in the Andes mountains, and they were stranded way up in the mountains for eighteen days without any food. So there were maybe fifty people on the plane and only eighteen survivors. So because there was no food they ate the bodies. They ate the dead bodies to survive. Then, eighteen days later they were saved. A plane came and picked them up and brought them back. So people are very, very much excited, “Oh, what is this amazing occurrence, that they ate human flesh?” But every day they are eating...

Prabhupäda: Cow’s flesh. When it was?

Yogesvara: This was about... Now it is almost a month ago, one month ago.

Prabhupäda: Where it was?

Yogesvara: In the Andes mountains?

Pusta-krsna: High in the mountains.

Prabhupäda: Huh?

Yogesvara: High in the mountains there was a plane that crashed.

Nitäi: South America.

Yogesvara: Is it South...

Nitäi: Andes, yes.

Yogesvara: I think so. I’m not sure. I don’t know for sure. But in the mountains a plane crashed and there were eighteen survivors. And to stay alive they ate the dead bodies of the passengers who died. So there were many articles. “What was it like?” Everyone wants to know, “What was it like to eat human flesh? Do you feel bad now that you have eaten human flesh?” “No.”

Guru Gauränga: Who’s left a copy of Bhagavad-gétä here?

Pusta-ksnaa: Who’s left this copy? That’s

his, this young boy.

Yogesvara: There have already been books written about it, television reports, radio, everything.

Pusta-krsna: One thing on that report. I read that there were certain people...

Prabhupäda: There was no vegetable?

Yogesvara: No, it was way up in the mountains.

Pusta-krsna: Icy, cold.

Yogesvara: It was very cold. There was no plants, no nothing. They had to stay inside the plane just to stay alive, to stay warm. So they could not go and get food anywhere.

Pusta-krsna: And the bodies were already

dead. And there were certain people that they knew their bodies, his fiance or his sister. They agreed that if they were going to eat the bodies they would eat them last. It’s true. It was in the story. One man, he had his prospective wife. One man had his sister or sister-in-law, cousin. They said, “If we’re going to eat the bodies, then we’ll eat them the last.” So they had a sense that this body is more important than that body, like that.

Prabhupäda: No, in last war they ate stool also.

Yogesvara: Concentration camps.

Pusta-krsna: Really? What is the Vaisnava point of view?

Prabhupäda: What is that?

Pusta-krsna: Is a Vaisnava, is he willing to maintain his body for the service of Lord Krsna even if he has to break regulative principles—if it is necessary?

Prabhupäda: If it is necessary.

Yogesvara: What’s the name of that yogi who meditated for sixty thousand years?

Nitäi: Saubhari? Viçvämitra.

Prabhupäda: Välméki.

Yogeçvara: No.

Nitäi: Viçvämitra?

Prabhupäda: Viçvämitra.

Yogeçvara: He also had to eat dog, I think.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Yogeçvara: There’s a story about that.

Prabhupäda: Yes, Viçvämitra. How they exist in that open, and there was snow. For eating they... Eighteen days?

Yogesvara: The plane crashed. Half the people were killed. So the other people, two of them left to go find help. They went to find out some people they could telephone or something. It took them eighteen days to find a house. So the other people, they all stayed close together inside the airplanes. They put on blankets and their coats. But there was no... They could not go outside. There was no food.

Pusta-krsna: They had... At first they had little chocolate and they rationed it out that “You get a little bit of chocolate,” and little bit of liquid they had. And so they rationed it out until that was finished. Then they took a vote amongst themselves. “Well, what shall we do? Shall we eat human flesh or shall we simply starve to death?” So they voted amongst themselves that “Yes, we should do this.” There were some men, one or two, that would not do it and they died. They refused to do it, and they died. Others, they did.

Yogesvara: They made some... Afterwards they had to... There was some discussion, some philosophy. They were actually discussing. And there was one person there who was explaining to the others that “We must eat this flesh to stay alive but it’s not so wrong since the soul has left the body.” He said, “The spirit has left these bodies, so you shouldn’t consider it to be quite so bad. We’re obliged to do this.”

Prabhupäda: Yes, that is not unreasonable. It was a question of selection. Otherwise, to subsist, to eat the dead bodies, flesh, that is not very abominable. That can be accepted. But it is the selection whether one will eat. That is another thing. Otherwise dead body’s flesh is as good as anything else because it is matter.

Some thing will happen on the world stage to incite these fanatics into attacking all these homes and people wearing yellow ribbons.

Maybe it would have been better to let the Soviets take the place,under the lesser of two evils argument.But who could tell it would come to this.

Jihad Against Fanaticism[JAF]

A friend gave me one in a gallon jar already set up and ready to go[or grow] and it did.This was maybe five or six years ago I don't remember the details only that it grossed me out and I decided to flush it.And it clogged up the toilet, draino didn't work, liquid plummer didn't work so I called the landlord.He asked what happened all I could say is I didn't know.How could I explain a giant fungus.

I am knowm for drinking horrible tasting concoctions of Chinese herbs etc. but I could not drink this thing.No how.No way.

Fuji Fungi

Originally posted by shvu:

My opinion:

 

Basically I am for science. The space programs were more a political issue with the cold war in full swing. But since then, that has not been the national priority.

 

The scientist cannot accept that God created the world, simply because the bible says so. If he does that, he is no longer a scientist! Of course, it can be a personal religious belief to him, but he cannot use that in science unless he has something concrete to base it upon.

 

Life from life is logical.Inert matter suddenly[as in Bang!] suddenly ex or inploding into all we see and developing conciousness is a much wilder and fanciful explanation than God created the world.The blind faith exhibited by the materialistic scientist is amazing.

 

 

Science is not without it's good points. If it were not for technology, we would be farming or herding cattle and would not be having this discussion today.

 

Better the farm than this mess of pavement, cars,factories and filthy air.

 

 

In all probability, there would have been no Iskcon, as we know it. The devotee is not averse to using technology wherever it is useful.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Yet he is against trying to explain life in rational terms. The only reason that I can see for such an inconsistency is that he has an inherent fear that such a discovery will knock down his beliefs.

 

I find the idea that consciousness is a product of matter to be irrational.A rational scientist should have realized this.Every atom of the body changes over and over, yet consciousness remains.Rational deduction says consciousness is distinct from matter.Perhaps the materialist fears finding his true identity is spiritual,knocking down his attachment to matter.A fear I might add that is not foreign to spiritual practioners as well in our beginning stages.

 

We are not in a position to make a statement that science cannot explain life.

 

Well we know that, but yet they go ahead and say life is not spiritual, that it is based in matter.That is cheating.If one does not know simply say I don't know.

 

200 years back, if someone had claimed that man will one day fly and have wireless communication, peole would have laughed. But it has happened today. Similarly, science may uncover more information about the origin of life later some day. To say "science has not yet..." is reasonable but to say "science cannot..." is to kill all possibilities.

 

shvu, I am trying to make the point that they have already proved that consciousness is separate from matter.But they ignore it in favor of their bias against the spiritual.

 

Maya will expertly give them engagements and discoveries enough to keep their investigations into matter going for aeons.But it is all just a distraction.

 

Where I work, there is a poster on a wall that reads as follows,

 

****

 

In 1899, the US patent office, released the following statement,

 

Everything that can be invented, already has been.

 

if these 'experts' ran the world, we would still be living in darkness today. It is upto us to break the barriers of dogma and to make innovations....

 

 

But don't forget to run a societal cost benefit analysis before employing the inventions..Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done.

 

****

My point is that it is wrong to say that science cannot discover something in the future, if it has not discovered it already. If one can decisively prove that science can never find the origin of life, then perhaps God can be accepted as the most logical reason available. But until then one cannot dismiss science lightly, simply because the religious book says otherwise.

 

I don't oppose science as a principle as I said, just the way it is used.

 

If one scientist can do his work and in his own life accept the knowledge descending from God, why can't the field as a whole?Such a thing would be a true benefit to mankind, both materially and spiritually.

 

But would that be commercially viable.Most scientitists work for corps. who have their eye on the bottom line only or at least primarily.

 

At this point they are just out of control.

 

About instinct, do they claim to have found a super locating gene in birds?How do they explain that?

 

MC

 

 

Originally posted by shvu:

My opinion:

 

Basically I am for science. The space programs were more a political issue with the cold war in full swing. But since then, that has not been the national priority.

 

The scientist cannot accept that God created the world, simply because the bible says so. If he does that, he is no longer a scientist! Of course, it can be a personal religious belief to him, but he cannot use that in science unless he has something concrete to base it upon.

 

Life from life is logical.Inert matter suddenly[as in Bang!] suddenly ex or inploding into all we see and developing conciousness is a much wilder and fanciful explanation than God created the world.The blind faith exhibited by the materialistic scientist is amazing.

 

 

Science is not without it's good points. If it were not for technology, we would be farming or herding cattle and would not be having this discussion today.

 

Better the farm than this mess of pavement, cars,factories and filthy air.

 

 

In all probability, there would have been no Iskcon, as we know it. The devotee is not averse to using technology wherever it is useful.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Yet he is against trying to explain life in rational terms. The only reason that I can see for such an inconsistency is that he has an inherent fear that such a discovery will knock down his beliefs.

 

I find the idea that consciousness is a product of matter to be irrational.A rational scientist should have realized this.Every atom of the body changes over and over, yet consciousness remains.Rational deduction says consciousness is distinct from matter.Perhaps the materialist fears finding his true identity is spiritual,knocking down his attachment to matter.A fear I might add that is not foreign to spiritual practioners as well in our beginning stages.

 

We are not in a position to make a statement that science cannot explain life.

 

Well we know that, but yet they go ahead and say life is not spiritual, that it is based in matter.That is cheating.If one does not know simply say I don't know.

 

200 years back, if someone had claimed that man will one day fly and have wireless communication, peole would have laughed. But it has happened today. Similarly, science may uncover more information about the origin of life later some day. To say "science has not yet..." is reasonable but to say "science cannot..." is to kill all possibilities.

 

shvu, I am trying to make the point that they have already proved that consciousness is separate from matter.But they ignore it in favor of their bias against the spiritual.

 

Maya will expertly give them engagements and discoveries enough to keep their investigations into matter going for aeons.But it is all just a distraction.

 

Where I work, there is a poster on a wall that reads as follows,

 

****

 

In 1899, the US patent office, released the following statement,

 

Everything that can be invented, already has been.

 

if these 'experts' ran the world, we would still be living in darkness today. It is upto us to break the barriers of dogma and to make innovations....

 

 

But don't forget to run a societal cost benefit analysis before employing the inventions..Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done.

 

****

My point is that it is wrong to say that science cannot discover something in the future, if it has not discovered it already. If one can decisively prove that science can never find the origin of life, then perhaps God can be accepted as the most logical reason available. But until then one cannot dismiss science lightly, simply because the religious book says otherwise.

 

I don't oppose science as a principle as I said, just the way it is used.

 

If one scientist can do his work and in his own life accept the knowledge descending from God, why can't the field as a whole?Such a thing would be a true benefit to mankind, both materially and spiritually.

 

But would that be commercially viable.Most scientitists work for corps. who have their eye on the bottom line only or at least primarily.

 

At this point they are just out of control.

 

About instinct, do they claim to have found a super locating gene in birds?How do they explain that?

 

MC

 

 

shvu,

What's yours?

shvu,

What's yours?

Originally posted by shvu:

Maitreya,

 

Out of curiosity, what do you feel the scientists should do? Do you suggest that they accept God as the cause of life, drop all research and go home?

 

I am trying to understand your perception.

 

Cheers

 

 

shvu,

Yes they should accept God as the cause of life like everyone should.As far as dropping all research, is that possible?Everyone must follow their nature.I applaud that drive to know.But not to the point of torturing innocent animals like they do to satisfy their curiousity for instance.And the space program is a farce and a collosal waste of time and money etc.How to make their endeavors more benign?

At this point we can point to positive accomplishments from their community but we could point out some very dangerous things they have set in motion as well.Its my opinion that the bad outweighs the good.

They make statements like they will conquer death,end disease etc. that are so foolish.If they only would stop with the cheating.Just tone it down,humanity under their leadership and direction is moving fast towards some major destruction.

MC