Ganeshprasad

Jai Ganesh

 

Namaskar Atanuji

 

Nicely presented Lord Shivas Glories, may he bless us all

 

here is what Bhagvat says

SB 8.7.33: Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities.

SB 8.7.34

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

welcome

 

nice to know you are interested in Hinduism,

there are many paths, so choose wisely,

For me Gitaji and Ramayan stands high above all to read.

Chanting the names of the lord and there are many names, is the easy way of starting the practice.

There are four pillars of Dharma which you follow when you become serious.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(some time ago i started doing meditation and some breathing exercise which i ve learned from my grandpa. and i noticed that during meditation and the exercises everything was very calm.)

 

It is nice that you are interested in spirituality, there is nothing that satisfy the soul but the spiritual practice, that is why you feel calm.

 

Re

(but how can i maintain this. for example i m very afraid of spiders and when i see a spider my heart starts beating very wild, i cannot control it.i know they cannot do any harm. Is there a vedic exercise to \"overcome\" fears ??)

 

I do not know of any exercise that helps, but understanding fear and facing it head on should help, try overcoming the fear by first handling a plastic one. My fear of handling a spider is in accidently killing it. Takeing a deep breath and chanting mantra should help.

Through study and practice, one realizes the nature of the self, and the souls relation with the lord, slowly all the fear begin to disappear and one becomes Abhai.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

 

 

Re

[[

 

(sorry.. the old one was the right one)

 

No need to be, i thought your correction did not make sense so i did not answer anyway.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(••right.... so muslims are left in islamism, christian are left in christianism, satan worshippers in satanism and so on... are they hindus?)

 

Vasudevkutumb, what can you say for those unfortunate spirit soul who did and does their best to destroy the Hindu culture, they do not follow Vedic scripture they have their own, but still does a mother disown own her child?

 

Re

( And if you follow a personalist path it will be possible to you to speak to the people without being a cheater, because personalist paths do not search for losing individual identity.)

 

So a personalist preacher can be realized, an impersonalist preacher is a contraddiction in itself and he's a cheater)

 

I see no contradiction, Brahman ralisation, parmatma and Bhagvan realization are a valid path given in Vedas, if someone is a cheat Krishna is a biggest cheater.

 

 

 

Re

So Sankracharya is hypocrite?

(••shankara acharya is lord shiva... he has the duty to make a little step to go beyond buddhism, he's cheating materialists for their own advantage.. otherwise they were atheist/nihilists/buddhists,

Advaita is more advanced than Buddhism)

 

How can you talk contradiction with the support of Vedas?

 

((And within that vedic tradition you still have to explain the different paths, realy no different from calling it hindu.))

Re

(••i do not think that all so called hindu paths are really vedic paths... that's my point. So i do not speak of or propagandize hinduism )

 

That is your parogative we Vedic Hindu have no problem, your following your chosen path humbly and sincerely is appreciated even if we get kicked in the teeth.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

Jai Ganesh

((All the hindus wants to reach the lord))

Re

(••it is easy to demonstrate that's wrong)

 

You will have to demonstrate Krishna is wrong.

 

 

((belief has no bearing on realization.))

Re

(••desire is essential.. if i want krsna i go to krsna, if i negate krsna he leaves me where i am)

 

They, whose wisdom has been carried away by various desires impelled by their own Sanskaara, resort to other gods (or deities) and practice various religious rites. (7.20)

Whosoever desires to worship whatever deity (using whatever name, form, and method) with faith, I make their faith steady in that very deity. (7.21)

 

Re

 

((Soul with the supersoul))

Re

(••not all hindus believe that there's discrimination between soul and supersoul, and consequently a reunion between them)

 

As I said belief has no bearing on realization, Brahman realization is not alien concept in Vedas.

 

Re

(••no..it is realized.. many things are realized without seeing them with eyes.)

 

Yes but the point is I am not realized soul,still I talk about my self trying reach that stage does that make me a cheat?

 

I do not know how and why I chose to leave spiritual realm still I speculate about it.

 

Re

(••because preaching is experiencing. If i preach a philosophy that does not negate individuality it is possible that i am authentic.)

 

And it is also possible becoming one with Brahman, since nothing can be outside of Brahman.

 

Re

( Arjuna can say surely to be fully realized because krsna asked him to surrender, not to annihilate himself and merge. So arjuna is realized and able to communicate.)

 

yes he communicated with his arrows.

 

Re

(But if someone preachs a kind of realization where is necessary to lose individuality, he's obviously an hypochrit...)

 

So Sankracharya is hypocrite?

 

( who's no more an individual he cannot obviously preach. He is no more "himself", he cannot act, he has no objects of his preaching.. he's died.)

 

preaching is only in duality oneness is their goal.

 

 

((No it is a sign that god is limitless and thus the various realization. ))

Re

(••various realizations = various names... vaishnava realization, advaita realization, christian realization, buddhist realization.. not "religious" realization.

Discrimination is essential)

 

Yes no one is denying that, weather you call this Hindu or vedic you still have this problem Vedas do not deny various realization. So even the name Vedic dharma will give you the same headache.

 

Re

(••i am not interested in discussing this subject. If i criticize the use of the "hinduism" name and i use it when i feel it useful i am a rascal.)

 

That is honest of you.

Re

(When someone calls me hindu i am not at all offended, but when i can i explain better the situation for better understanding of vedic tradition )

 

And within that vedic tradition you still have to explain the different paths, realy no different from calling it hindu.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Dear Atanu Namaskar.

 

Re

(No dear friend, who am I to test you?)

 

a friend indeed.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Maadhavji

 

dhanyawad! goes to you for your fighting spirit against

so much opposition.

 

thank you for your kind words god knows i do not deserve it.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(••no.. some hindus want to reach the lord, some hindus believe that the lord is to be rejected and that they are the lord, some hindus believe that nothing is real.. neither themselves nor the lord. Many opinion, opposite goals)

 

All the hindus wants to reach the lord, same goal many opinion, belief has no bearing on realization.

 

 

((Reuniting is if something is broken))

Re

(••believing that this "something" were never existing as a real spiritual identity i do not know what's to be reunited)

 

Soul with the supersoul, Vedas(Hindu) mention many paths.

 

 

Re

(••many things are "seen"by the effects that they have in the reality. You do not see the bits and bytes running through the cable, but you know that they exist because internet is working and you can surf,write, read and so on...

So if it is undeniable that you live, and you realized that you are not the body, you can call this life "spirit" and his existence is demonstrated)

 

Yes but not seen or realized, advaiti also say the sprit pervades all, nothing can exist outside of the lord, he is sarva, so one ness to those who choose the path is valid even if not experienced, this was the point so how could you call them cheats?

 

Re

((If the lord was limited you would have a point.))

Re

(••variety and variety of denominations are not a sign that god has limits)

 

No it is a sign that god is limitless and thus the various realization.

 

 

((To deny the name and than use it is for selfish advantage is being untruthful and very unvedic.))

Re

(••of course)

 

How much evidence do you want me to provide that this has been the case for some organization.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Namaskar

 

Yes if you can see the lord in all being is Sattwic, that not to say all being are the lord.

 

Looks like the lord is guiding you in what you seek.

 

I give the knowledge, to those who are ever united with Me and lovingly adore Me, by which they come to Me. (10.10)

 

 

Out of compassion for them I, who dwell within their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance by the shining lamp of knowledge. (10.11)

 

There are lots of points to consider, you are testing me,

i will try my best to respond it will take some time.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(--no problem in different opinion.. only problem in too different opinions under the same artificial denomination)

 

Debate has many opinions, it still is a debate, Hinduism is like that many opinion but the same goal to seek the truth to reach the lord.

Nothing is artificial about vedic(hindu) dharma,it has many stages of realization, one pointed realization of one does not hinder the other.

The respect and tolerance inherent in hindu mindset allows this, nothing you would say will break that

 

Re

(--i don't want to decide.. we are not speaking on who's right and who's wrong. We are speaking about reuniting all these opposite "right" under one artificial denomination)

 

Reuniting is if something is broken, we are talking of Hindu history (at least on this thread), many came to break us you are no match to those ugly invaders.

 

((And if you able to function without the aid of your body let me know I will accept you as my guru.))

Re

(••even if i were able to be guru, the etiquette is that the disciple brings the candidates to his guru, so i meet him in jagannath puri this summer.. if you want to come with me i am happy..)

 

Coditiopn was for you to function without the aid of your body, still I would not mind going to puri again, wish you all the best, I am planning to go to himalay this summer.

 

 

Re

(••your body is not the same of yesterday, but you have assumed the same nickname and you have answered to my yesterday's message. So you think that your being "ganeshprasad", or the individual with that name, is not changed and he's still existing.

That's the prove that you believe in spirit.. if you feel to be a different individual why use the same name "ganeshprasad"?

Body changes every millisecond.. if you feel to be the body be coherent and change name and ideas every millisecond)

 

I never said I am this body, at the same time you can not show me this spirit, but we talk about it.

 

Re

(••who thinks that lord is SARVA he does not negate any aspect of god)

 

Sure.

 

Re

Brahman is also form of the lord

(••"also" is one religion.. "only" is a different religion)

 

For a sadhak to reach a chosen goal in the beginning the the effort is single minded, when Drona asked Arjun what do you see? The answer was the eye. That was his target.

 

 

Re

(but wich name is to use is not a great problem.. the problem is if opposite religions are to be called with the same name)

 

If the lord was limited you would have a point.

 

((••in my book is simply precision and truthfulness)

what being hypocrites?))

Re

(--it is not the main problem.. philosophy and logic are there to judge the opportunity of reuniting opposite religions under one name.. and if in future i will call myself hindu for my advantage you will judge me hypochrit)

 

we will stick with hindu it is non sectarian vedic knowledge, only I am proper vedic follower is a dangerious notion.

To deny the name and than use it is for selfish advantage is being untruthful and very unvedic.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Thanks Maadhav i will look at the link later

 

jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Re

(--mahaprabhu took sannyasa to be more respected in his preaching, not to respect advaitins.. or he respected them fighting their philosophies and making them reject it)

You are simply speculating you have no real answer.

••mahaprabhu's byographies are easily available... chaitanya charitamrita is sold all over the world)

 

A biography written by advati would be different you are still missing the point; advaita is part of Vedic philosophy Sri Shakrachriya is testimony to that.

 

Re

(Are you saying Krishna is not present in every atom? Can anything move without his will?

••krsna is also maya.. it is not that if a religion is existing , it is automatically vedic or dharmic)

it is not for you to decide

 

Re

(As to the death penalty in some of the states just think who were the rulers?

••death penalty for who were claiming to be god was in many regions with total or big autonomy)

 

and as such not vedic

Re

(you are simply playing with words, not making much sense, birth race and nationality is not something you can avoid

••simply bodily identifications... we are spiritual souls.. "aham brahmasmi.." i am spirit, not i am spirit + body)

 

 

And if you able to function without the aid of your body let me know I will accept you as my guru.

You have here accused other of being cheat for talking about oneness prove me you are spirit show me that spirit or else you are a cheat.

Re

(When if one is on Brahman realization he will negate every thing

••so if he negate the object of worship of someone, he cannot stay in the same religion. )

 

He is not of the same school of thought but he is still a vedic practionar.

Re

(In islamism there's no people who simultaneously accept allah and people who negate allah, the same with christ in christianism, and buddha in buddhism.)

for they do not fully understand the nature of the lord he is serva.

Re

(So how i can worship the "hindu" god (krsna, vishnu) and being "hindu" together with someone else who negates the "hindu" god?)

Brahman is also form of the lord so ultimately there is no negation

 

Re

(What you are saying has no historical evidence

••find the word "hindu" or any appreciation of hindu impersonalism or hindu classic equality of all sacred personalities (god and devas) in a gaudya literature)

 

You would not find any one refuting to be hindu until reacently.

Before 1965 you would not find iskcon in any literatures let alone gaudya.

Re

(they do not mind calling them self Hindus, in my book this is hypocritical.

••in my book is simply precision and truthfulness)

 

 

what being hypocrites?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

((When the lord himself declare There are two entities in this world: the perishable and the imperishable. (The bodies of) all beings are perishable, and the Atma is imperishable. (15.16)

There is another supreme spirit called Ishvara or Paramaatma, the indestructible Lord who pervades the three worlds and sustains them. (15.17)

I am beyond the perishable body, and higher than the imperishable Atma; therefore, I am known in this world and in the Vedas as Purushottama, or the Supreme Spirit. (15.18)

The wise one, who truly knows Me as the Purushottama, knows everything and worships Me wholeheartedly, O Arjuna. (15.19))

 

Re

 

(Even Gita cannot contradict Shruti. One without a second means One without a second.)

 

no it does not, contradiction is within our perception

 

Re

Lord Krishna also says

 

 

7.18 Udaaraah sarva evaite jnaanee twaatmaiva me matam;

Aasthitah sa hi yuktaatmaa maamevaanuttamaam gatim.

 

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self; for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.)

 

 

Lord Krishna also says

I am the origin of all. Everything emanates from Me. Understanding this, the wise ones worship Me with love and devotion. (10.08)

 

 

Re

 

(Query: How can an individual see all beings “in self”? and how Lord deems “the wise as HIS SELF”?)

 

Simple since nothing can exist beyond the lord every thing rest in him.

 

Re

 

(Please note the word “deem”. The world is as he has deemed – “full of individualities”, but that is not how the eternal is. The individualities come and go.)

 

Every thing he deems must be eternal, for he is perfact. he says,

There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

 

Re

(Gita has a many layered knowledge appropriate for all stages. Some do not read it fully. However, it is only a question of time when the apparent contradictions will impel individuals to contemplate and seek deeper.)

 

Every thing is perfact even the different stages

Some worship Me by knowledge sacrifice. Others worship the infinite as the one in all (or non-dual), as the master of all (or dual), and in various other ways. (9.15)

 

 

MAIT U VI, 17

 

vi) In the beginning this was Brahman, One and infinite, ----.

 

((----------He alone remains awake when the universe is dissolved, and out of this space he awakens [again] the world consisting of thought. By him alone is all this thought [into being] and in him it dissolves again. -----------

The man who knows this, he verily attains the Oneness of the One.

End of citation))

 

Re

 

(The same thought as the source of creation is also stated in Gita. Can you please reproduce the verse here?)

 

there are many verses I do not know which one you are after here is a few

2.28

avyaktadini bhutani

vyakta-madhyani bharata

avyakta-nidhanany eva

tatra ka paridevana

 

8.18

All manifestations come out of the unmanifest state or Prakriti at the arrival of Brahmaa's day, and they again merge into the same Prakriti at the coming of Brahmaa's night. (8.18)

 

The same multitude of beings come into existence again and again at the arrival of the day of Brahmaa, and they are annihilated, inevitably, at the arrival of Brahmaa's night. (8.19)

There is another eternal unmanifest state higher than (both Purusha and) Prakriti that does not perish when all beings perish. (8.20)

This unmanifest state is called the imperishable or Brahman. This is said to be the ultimate goal. Those who reach My Supreme abode do not return (or take rebirth). (8.21)

 

 

 

 

Re

(Also in Rig Veda it is stated that Rudra “thinks of” the beings in earth and heaven. Now, a man of world will say “yes, he loves the beings”. It will never occur that “the man of world” and also “the man of the heaven” are HIS thought creations alone.)

 

Some thought creation, he thinks and we experience pain or pleasure!

 

Re

 

(Rudra never sleeps also. When all Gods go to rest He is awake. We worship HIM when other Gods sleep.)

 

How can we worship if we are just his thought?

 

Re

 

(Maya makes us believe the solidity of all that we see. But actually everything is subtle, spirit.)

 

Solidity is not the problem, falsely identifying with matter as self is maya.

 

 

Re

 

(Kartikeya did not appear from union (as far as I know).

 

Perhaps you can tell me how he appears.

 

Re

(Yes, that is the point. But Jiva has, as intellect the conditioned “CIDAKASHA”. On dropping the imagination of conditioning jiva vanishes. Imagining individuality and jivahood as real is the Maya. Maya is Maya – not true. )

 

You have lost me here.

 

Re

(See, Brahman is the efficient and material cause of everything. So, how will it be possible to create something which is not Brahman? If there are such things which do not partake of Brahman’s nature then that must be untrue or Maya.)

 

You tell me is anything being created? Is maya not part of the lord?

Every thing that eminates from Brahman must be eternal.

 

Re

Some say that we are amshas and not the whole. Then did Brahman cut off his parts materially and reduced himself? This happens with Purusha and not with Brahman. Brahman eternally remains as such. Purusha is also a thought in Brahman.)

 

Well I accept what lord Krishna says Bg 15.7

mamaivamso jiva-loke

jiva-bhutah sanatanah

manah-sasthanindriyani

prakrti-sthani karsati

Purasha and Brahman can not be a different entity, energy and energetic can not be seprated.

 

 

 

 

 

((Isavasya Upanishad

 

Om ! That is full; this is full, (for) from the full the full (indeed) arises.

When the full is taken from the full, what remains is full indeed.

Om ! Peace ! Peace ! Peace !))

 

Re

 

(The above is a great mystery and cannot be solved till one realizes That.)

 

The whole creation is a great mistry, but if you cotemplate on above the previous query of yours will beging to make sense.

 

 

 

Re

 

(Yes, this not difficult to appreciate and also to refute. This happens because one is limited within the body and its senses. But yogis travel in consciousness. Yogis appear at two places at same time. They intuit future. All these true yogis can do – but without volition. These things just happen, when one drops the imagination that one is the body?)

 

Yes we have limited capacity but none can surpass the lord, 4 kumars although brahm gyani never proclaimed to be god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re

 

(I guess, the present effort is yet not intense and one pointed enough to overcome the past karma, results of which Lord dispenses.)

 

Our helplessness in this regards is an indication of our position in relation to the lord.

 

 

Re

(My Guru says “Sahaja Samadhi” state is the one which is the fourth state and is the only true state. Till one validates Gurus teaching’s, grace does not happen. So, automatically the scriptures that have all come to me (unsought) have verified this.)

 

Our desires and efforts are rewarded by the lord.

 

 

Gita Mahatmya

 

Sri Vishnuruvaacha:

 

2 Praarabdham bhujyamaano hi geetaabhyaasaratah sadaa;

Sa muktah sa sukhee loke karmanaa nopalipyate.

 

Lord Vishnu said:

 

2. Though engaged in the performance of worldly duties, one who is regular in the study of the Gita becomes free. He is the happy man in this world. He is not bound by Karma.

-------------

 

19 Geetaartham dhyaayate nityam kritwaa karmaani bhoorishah;

Jeevanmuktah sa vijneyo dehaante paramam padam.

 

19. He who meditates on the meaning of the Gita, having performed many virtuous actions, attains the supreme goal after death. Such an individual should be considered a true Jivanmukta.

 

 

Also from Gita itself

 

 

5.19 Ihaiva tairjitah sargo yeshaam saamye sthitam manah;

Nirdosham hi samam brahma tasmaad brahmani te sthitaah.

 

 

5.19. Even here (in this world) birth (everything) is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is spotless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

 

 

 

So, the state of Jivanmukti – which most Shiva lovers believe -- due to grace of Dakshinamurti, is also stated by Lord Vishnu.

 

Jivanmukti does not mean loss of identity. Shukhdev swami was born jivanmukt.

 

Re

 

(At this stage, you just have to believe that once the small “i” is surrendered to Lord, He pulls it in. That is known as loss of ego. Sometimes it is very painful if one clings to individuality. In this case Lord appears as Rudra. )

 

If the lord appears as Rudra I will count that as blessing.

 

Re

(In Shiva temples, Nandi represents the dharmic ego. It gets smaller and smaller.

 

 

Once the small “i” is absorbed in Samadhi, it does not exist. If it still comes out, then it is prarabdha.)

 

Without exhausting the prarabdh no possibility of attaining the supreme.

 

 

 

 

Re

(It wholly depends on the self. Effort is for the self to do, but the result is for the Self to grant. Krishna says “in whatever fashion one contemplates Me, I grant one that”. If the consciousness wants the individuality to persist, it will persist. This alone is in conditioned consciousnesses power – what to wish and strive for.)

 

This unmanifest state is called the imperishable or Brahman. This is said to be the ultimate goal. Those who reach My Supreme abode do not return (or take rebirth). (8.21)

This Supreme abode, O Arjuna, is attainable by unswerving devotion to Me within which all beings exist, and by which all this universe is pervaded. (See also 9.04 and 11.55) (8.22)

I will aspire to reach his supreme abode and on this note I will take a break I will try and answer the rest later.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(--if these diversities are unity also a muslim or a buddhist is a hindu)

 

no problem in absolute term yes, unfortunately like a raksasa a muslim would not agree, just like I can not force you to accept the unity that does exsit.

 

 

((Even Sri Chetayna Maha Prbhu took sanyas from an advetic sanyasi, this alone should make you humble enough not to get engaged in your offensive attitude.))

Re

(--mahaprabhu took sannyasa to be more respected in his preaching, not to respect advaitins.. or he respected them fighting their philosophies and making them reject it)

 

You are simply speculating you have no real answer.

 

 

Re

(--the comparison was to say if all modern hinduism were approved by sri krsna if he were present in this world. In some indian states there were death penalty until the end of 1800 if some one said that he were God)

 

Are you saying Krishna is not present in every atom? Can anything move without his will?

As to the death penalty in some of the states just think who were the rulers?

 

 

((I agree with Krishna, but our perspective are different))

Re

(--bhagavad gita is for everyone not only for arjuna.)

 

sure but there are specific instruction to Arjun also.

 

Re

(Our material dharmas to leave to surrender are also the false identification with material religions based on birth, race and nationality)

 

you are simply playing with words, not making much sense, birth race and nationality is not something you can avoid, even an instituation identification is just a subtitue for other identification.

 

((Some worship Me by knowledge sacrifice. Others worship the infinite as the one in all (or non-dual), as the master of all (or dual), and in various other ways. (9.15)))

 

Re

(--krsna is all attractive because he has infinite qualities. So all aspects of krsna are worshipable included the inpersonal aspects, but not being envious of krsna. if i try to realize the brahman there's nothing bad, but if i try to realize brahman saying that krsna is a maya's aspect and that i will go beyond him this is not dharma, this is aganinst the gita and you cannot put it in the same religion with dharmic schools ad philosophies.

It is like serving some drink with dirt inside)

 

When if one is on Brahman realization he will negate every thing( nati naiti) not this not this, so stop speculating on their behalf and except what Krishna says.

 

((Get you facts right, time has no relevant, all the Vedic practice performed and there has been many, has collectively known as Hindu for many years.))

Re

(--i have said it to explain to you that gaudya vaishnavas never wanted to be identified as hindus even centuries before landing in the west....)

 

What you are saying has no historical evidence the fact is we all bore the brunt of Islamic brutality for being Hindu, only recently some sects have a problem with the name, some of the time and some times they do not mind calling them self Hindus, in my book this is hypocritical.

 

((Variety is the spice of life, there is variety in lords creations are you denying him? ))

Re

(--variety is good... so use a variety of names, why you want to kill variety putting artificially everyone inside one name... the hinduism?)

 

You miss the point just as you do not deny the variety in the lord we do not deny the variety in vedic dharma(Hinduism)

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Maadhavji

 

What is Chanakya niti? in this thread of Hindu history we can do with his logic.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(--different... i see too many and opposite dharmas in hinduism to have the possibility to say that all are one (sanatana) dharma...)

 

That is nice, but we also know the differences, but the unity in diversity is what you fail to see.

Even Sri Chetayna Maha Prbhu took sanyas from an advetic sanyasi, this alone should make you humble enough not to get engaged in your offensive attitude.

 

Re

(Imagine the sisupala's lila and imagine to bring before krsna in that assembly, ramakrsna , vivekananda and sai baba )

 

Sisupal is a special person, to be killed personally by the lord is no mean feat, stop trying to emulate sisupal and calling names, stop being personal and respect others gurus.

 

Re

(--yes.. krsna says "leave all dharmas and surrender to me..". So if you identify all these reunited dharmas as hinduism you agree with krsna in the gita.

Leave that hinduism and surrender..)

 

I agree with Krishna, but our perspective are different, it is quiet clear Arjun is concerned of his dharma of killing his guru and kinsman and it is to this regard he says give up all the dharma and surrender on to me I shell protect you from all the sin.

 

Or else what is the point of him saying;

 

Some worship Me by knowledge sacrifice. Others worship the infinite as the one in all (or non-dual), as the master of all (or dual), and in various other ways. (9.15)

Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what should be done and what should not be done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural injunction. (16.24

 

Re

(---hk is in india from 1496.. so most hk are and were indians)

 

Get you facts right, time has no relevant, all the Vedic practice performed and there has been many, has collectively known as Hindu for many years.

 

Re

(---my discussion is a fact of denomination... )

 

Facts looked from different angles takes up different meaning

 

Re

(do what you want)

 

We do.

 

Re

(i have no problems... )

 

That is big of you.

 

Re

(In the west someone says "eastern religions" putting all together..islamism, "hiduism", buddhism, scintoism and so on... and they are able also to find common charachteristics.

Are you happy that someone's finding that you and muslims have something in common?)

 

No problem I would know my position.

 

Re

(political purposes are infinitely less important of having honesty and transparence)

 

Raja Harishchandra satyavadi we understand, we do not need lesson from you.

 

 

 

 

Re

(there's too much variety in hinduism to use the same name)

 

Variety is the spice of life, there is variety in lords creations are you denying him? Why not?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

why does the lord get angry? He is shivam.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

 

(I request your answer to this. Does the drop know itself? What is the cognition power of the drop? It is Lord Varuna.

So, after mixing, does it have any separate faculty to know itself as a drop? Can it separate out exactly as it was before? )

 

The drop in this instance is consciousness; now tell me when you come in to contact with superconscious why would you loose your individuality, otherwise what is the meaning of being conscious.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Atanu

 

excelent answers,i will require some time to respond.

if individuality is the maya than who is maya bound?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(exactly!

dharmH rakshitaH rakshati)

 

if we follow our dharma properly this should have a positive effect on people around us.

We could be the spark that lit the forest fire.

 

Re

(as an example, if one says "i give you this bribe so that you give up bribery." then it is totally useless.)

 

This is a legacy left to us by brits, a real Hindu would not take bribe.

 

Re

(speeding is illegal, but to apprehend a speeding car, police needs to speed. first is adhrma, the second is dharma. same for himsa.)

 

Correct to a point but the police can not punish.

 

 

 

pranam!

 

 

jai sri krishna! -maadhav

"yuddhAya krita nischaya..." -Krishna

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Manyu was activated last 10 )

 

please explain

 

 

Re

( Yes, that is why I consider you my Guru.)

 

Please do not embarrass me I have a lot to learn and put in to practice all that I learn, may we both learn from each other.

 

Re

(I felt impelled. I wish this site would stop use of Guest login. Popularity of this site is on account of such freedom to abuse. )

 

Guest are always well come, those who abuse are not vedic.

 

Ones that make permanent residence are not guest, they make discussion difficult, they hide behind and attack, they are cowards.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Jai Ganesh

 

What remain is water but has the drop cease to be?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

Namashkar Atanu ji,

 

Re

(During your absence participated in a very acrimonious discusion and was almost taking retirement when you came back. If you are interested you may go through Kill the Ego thread by Shri Barney.)

 

Yes i have followed this discusion this guest has a lot to learn, but i am surprised you want to throw in your towel to some one who is un vedic in his approach to discussion, calling names is it self a sign of defeat.

 

Thank you for the verses.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam maadhavji

 

I agree in essence all that you say,i feel only way these Anti Vedic ideologies can go away is by us becoming strong again in all the fields.The future is in our hand.

When the sun comes out the darkness disappears.

 

Jai Shree Krishna