theist

Yes mahak prabhu. It really is this simple isn't it? Why expect the Lord to forgive us if we are unwilling to forgive others? We will not be allowed to enter the Kingdom (consciousness) of God with hearts of stone.

In the revealed scriptures, the ultimate object of knowledge is Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead. The purpose of performing sacrifice is to please Him. Yoga is for realizing Him. All fruitive activities are ultimately rewarded by Him only. He is supreme knowledge, and all severe austerities are performed to know Him. Religion [dharma] is rendering loving service unto Him. He is the supreme goal of life. SB 1.2.28-29

Exactly my point which was never answered. It is the knowledge that our attachments to what we think is ours (family property ect.) and unfullfilled desires and plans for the future that will never be realized that causes us the pain. It is painful enough for those of us that have at least some philosophical realization that we are not the body what to speak of the person who thinks the body is the self and he is losing all chance to ever experience happiness. And this brings up an even more subtle point. The fear of death itself has as it's basis the fact that the soul is eternal and senses it and thus the idea of death, of non-existence causes great fear and bewilderment beyond his worldly attachments. The idea of life itself is so natural to the soul and idea of death so unnatural. This plus the process that causes death as in cancer or car wreck etc. are all that is painful about death not the actual separation of the astral body from the physical body. Just like it is not painful to take off one's coat when one is inside and no longer needs it. No difference. Simple. It is because we don't want to remember God.We simply still want material things. Right now we are talking and reading about God but our minds are only a certain small percentage upon the Lord even as we are so-called engaged in remembering Him. We are practicing remembering God. Really remembering God means being FIXED upon Him. Samadhi. Samadhi in bhakti can be samadhi in motion like doing service purely for Krishna's pleasure. If Arjuna would have suddenly been struck by an arrow and left his body in an instant while taking aim at a target and not looking at Krishna or directly even thinking of Him he still would have had a perfect death because he was purely engaged in doing his service to Krishna which is itself remembering Krishna. The word 'remember' is interesting. We are members of Krishna but have apparently dismembered ourselves to try to enjoy maya. For the jiva to remember one's self in connection with Krishna means to remember one's position as a servant of Krishna. So the word remembering is another way of saying yoga or being re-yoked to Him. So if we are smart we will try our best to live a life that leads to remembering Krishna at the time of death. But also it may be a good idea to be little greedy and ask for more than we deserve. We don't deserve to remember krishna at the time of death but let us beg for it anyway. Not on the basis of deserving it but on the basis of His mercy alone.

To be blunt you take your dreams and what you think you see in these paintings all too seriously. One thing you can count on is the Lord in your heart whom at this time you may not be able to see but who can see you. Him you can pray to and try to please. He will guide you spiritually if you put your faith in Him. In sanskrit He is called Vishnu or Paramatma, the Lord in the heart. Hare Krishna

I've been wanting to print up some basic 'we are not these bodies' flyers and pass them out at UC Berkeley campus. It's only 4 blocks away but am nervous about it. Never used to be like this. I finished high school sporting a shaved head and sikha. I've become a cyber isolated character hiding behind the face of Alfred E. I have almost forgotten what it is like to look into someone's eyes while talking to them. Almost. You are right gHari. We need to maintain some human balance.

Yes all are Vaisnava's who worship Visnu in eternity as that is the natural function of the awakened eternal soul. A self realized Vaisnava sees one type of soul (minute particles of Krishna) in two conditions of life. Awake to Krishna or asleep to Krishna. The word karmi just relates to the present predicament that the sleeping souls find themselves in. One Father and one family of life. The vaisnava feels the oneness of every living being therefore no hatred can be found in him. He who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord, who sees all living entities as His parts and parcels, and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything never hates anything or any being. Sri Isopanishad 6

Oh yeah the mailing list. I better sign up now or be lost forever.

Yes indeed. She was always a bright spot, very intelligent devotee and always had a sweet disposition towards all. She is no doubt in a very good place chanting Hare Krishna and worshipping her deity Kanea.

Yes a long time. It was much more fun for me in the beginning days when the place was filled mostly with frustrated ex-iskconites. The debates with Narayan Maharajas students was very stimulating. Many of those many posts of mine I would take back if possible. So much nonsense talk I have typed. Sorry about that but that's what happens when you open the door to the public. May Krishna continue to bless you abundantly in all your endeavors JNdas.

It has been interesting to say the least. Hare Krishna

In the past few posts I questioned hindustani's suggestion that we should drop trying to understand higher concepts and just concentrate on being good human beings. The heart of my objection is contained within the idea of being good before seeking God. This contains the inherent idea that one has to qualify himself in some way before he can approach the Lord. I vehemently reject this idea. We can never become good enough on our own merit to chant the names of God. To think so would be very arrogant on our part. No special religious rites are needed. No qualification by birth is required. All that is required to chant the holy names is the willingness to do so. As we progree in Nam Bhajan we will become good by the influence of thew Holy Names. Hare Krishna

You think too much. God's revelations are descending in that they come to us by God's grace and not by our mind. I believe in the past I addressed the difference between philosophic speculation and mental speculation. Anyway your point is incorrect because each vortex as you call it that comes off the individual souls is NOT a person. You have no ability to create another living being. That is done by God alone. Krishna has various energies. The living entities are one such energy called marginal energy and are always subordinate to Him. Marginal entities, us, are tiny points of consciousness, localized and not omnipresent. Only Krishna is omnipresent. He also has what is called an inferior energy which is always unconscious and makes up the energies but subtle and gross that make up these manifested universes. Your vortexs would fall under this category, Inferior, non-conscious, non-living.

The confusing thing is you are saying both things and apparently don't know it. By the way don't assume anything.

Sorry primate, Please don't consider me rude but you are very much into the mental plane and I don't care to enter your mind along with you by analyzing one analogy of yours after another. You are not the Supreme Self. You are part of the Supreme Self. That's all.

Sorry I am not into such 'duh' styled conversations. I'll leave you to speak to yourself on this one.

Exactly! By respecting the the Supreme all the little nature spirit gods are respected also. No need to try to water the leaves of the tree one by one. Just water the root and the whole tree is nourished.

huh?

So you are saying the pain is mental. Then that must be due to attachments as I said. The mind has no gross nervous system so what do these Yamadhutas do to create this pain? I don't believe it. I don't accept that version of the time of death. Heavenly or hellish. I accept that the departing souls are ushered in to the subtle atmosphere in a much gentler fashion then described in the Bhagavatam. The Yamadhuta story is a simplified version of the actual happenings IMO. A version for children actually. What do you mean this pain makes the body unconscious? The gross body becomes totally unconscious simply because the consciousness (atma) has left for good taking all vital force with it. What else could the body then be but unconscious? It has nothing to do with pain. Personally I don't fear death in the least. I fear rebirth a great deal. I also fear the horrible ways I may be forced to undergo death but having the gross body off my back sounds like it would be a great relief and frankly I look forward to it.

Sorry I have no interest to look up the topic on past threads. If you have anything to say on it that would be fine.

This raises an interesting question. Just what exactly is painful about death? The process that causes death, like diease, gunshot, traffic accident etc., may be may be painful. Also the attahments we hold in our mind may cause us pain as they are being ripped away but what could be painful about the actual separation of the subtle body from the gross body? This is an occurence that we all have nightly according to most metaphysians. Many can astral project at will and there is never any report of pain.

If you want Krishna as a friend all you need to is chant His name and hold the desire very strongly to be the friend of God or Krishna. The truth is Krishna is already the friend of everyone. Now we must become His friend. Hare Krishna

Basically you are speaking impersonalist ideas. I would suggest trying to hear Vaisnava doctrine for what it is instead of everytime trying to make it conform to your preconceived ideas on what is or should be. You would still be free to disagree with the Vaishnava view of Reality, of course, but at least you would know what you are disagreeing with.

. Yes it can be seen as a staged process and individuality does indeed continue after liberation. The Vaishnava's maintain that not only is individuality maintained after liberation but that there is one supreme individual who is unlimited whereas all the jivas are infitesimal. We have arrived back at the Sun and photons example which hopefully make sense to you this time around. The variegated spiritual world is composed of the two types of individuals and their relationship.

By in Godhead I meant post liberation and living in the realm of eternity together. I take it your thought is that the jivas merge into the one great non-differentiated Self at liberation and their identities all merge as well.