theist

Thank you JNDAS. That is indeed more direct. If we as humans neglected our God given duties what good thing can we expect? We as humans today simply want to take, take and take some more. We take the Mothers milk and grow on it and then Mother grows old and it's our turn to care for her we sell her to the butcher who slits her throat for the pleasure of the meat eaters. And it only adds insult to injury that we do this in God's name and feel quite pious over the whole matter. IMO of course.

Bhaktajan, please don't introduce another subject on this thread. The disappearing bees rates a thread of it's own. Anyway the answer would be to drop the pesticides and go organic. The real reason the bees are disappearing could be a reaction to all the animal slaughter. As the planet as a whole develops more into the mode of goodness the environment as a whole becomes more favorable to the development of all things good, like the production of fruits and vegetables. Conversely, as the mode of darkness and ignorance becomes stronger the environment becomes antagonistic to the cultivation of nice things like good produce and other things characteristic of the mode of goodness. So in this way we can a link between the failure to protect cows and other helpless creatures and the loss of the bees.

Ah yes, another attempt to play the Prabhupada card to hide one's own sins.You ask the same question over and over which I have answered on other threads but you never answer mine. Why do you ignore his statement to protect cows yet preach cow protection? I suggest you read the latest posting by Janava Nitai das on the thread "cow's milk again" and try to understand your own pyschology a bit. . If my posting on this subject bothers you why are you daily going to these threads and posting on them. Only attacking what you perceive to be my position and ignoring the subject matter it's self? As for me I told you on another thread that we have nothing further to discuss Please quit following me around the forum. You are starting to feel like a cyber-stalker.

Does Krishna like milk from unprotected cows? «

Attack. Can you get any more emotive? I said already that allowing it until cow protection takes hold is IMO a mistake on the part of Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada taught cow protection. You are the one attacking cows. You cannot deny that cows and calves die and are mistreated by you using dairy from unprotected cows. Dance around all you like you are still killing cows. Ignoring the instruction to protect cows yet still trying to enjoy your mother's milk. But like I said do as you like. Everyone gets the results of their actions and non-actions. But of course you probably consider yourself above karmic reaction because you conduct a ceremony before you eat. In any case no need continuing this discussion. Oh and if you are so tired talking about the issue why are particapating on this thread?

Most of the Bible is composed of Old Testament writing which don't deal with Jesus or his message in anyway and most of the New Testament is a collection of letters written by the leaders of the new Christians to other new Christians and trying to establish the teachings of Jesus in newly formed communities ect. The Gospels themselves tell stories about the life and teachings of Jesus. What we have the teachings of Christ form the basis of Vaisnavism as pertains to human conduct. Only a most wretched demon would look upon the basic teachings of Christ and decry them.

The thing that I cannot grasp it that some highly intelligent people have fallen into this trap and actually believe that eating said vegetables is the same as eating meat. It's just bizarre. Some years back on this very forum some disciples of a prominent GV guru were here saying those of us who ate carrots were meat eaters. All of these superstitions like an eclipse being some demon swallowing the Sun, really cloud the sublime teaching of transcendental Krishna consciousness.

You got 'em Melvin

You are attacking Jesus Christ not the Bible. I could care less about the Bible. But if you want to talk about mythology check out the Puranic stories sometime. You believe all you read there? The point still stands. You say this author speaks for you. He says Jesus is junk. So you can live or die by his aparada. As for conversing with you any longer that won't be happening.

NITAAI ( NITyananda Gauranga Hare Krishna NAAma BhaktI ) Yoga By HH Bhaktiratna Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada (2) Bone of Cow becomes Garlic & meat becomes Onion The Vedas state that onion and garlic came from the dead body of a murdered cow and therefore they are considered like eating meat. They break the non-vegetarian principle from the strict Vedic shastric point of view. Strict vegetarians don’t eat onion nor garlic. Since meat is tamasic (mode of ignorance), onions and garlic are also tamasic and rajasic food (mode of ignorance and passion). They may have some medicinal value like even wine is used in medicines sometimes but no one will die without eating them. Devotees do not eat onion and garlic also for the reason that they cannot offer the food cooked with onion and garlic to the Lord as per the principles of Bhakti yoga. So if the Lord does not accept it, then the devotees do not get prasadam. “Once, in Satya Yuga the rishis were performing gomedha and asvamedha sacrefices for the welfare of the whole universe. A cow or a horse would be cut into pieces and placed in the fire. Afterwards the risis would utter mantras and the same animal would come alive in a beautiful young body. One time the risi who was about to perform a gomedha sacrifice, his wife was pregnant. She had a very strong desire to eat and she had heard that if, during pregnancy one has a desire to eat and does not fullfil this, then the baby that will be born will always have saliva coming from its mouth. Very strangely, she desired strongly to eat meat, thus she decided to keep one piece of meat of the cow’s body that was offered in sacrifice. She hid it and was making a plan to eat it very soon. At that time the rishi was finishing the sacrifice and uttered all the mantras for the new young cow to come to life. However when he saw the new cow, he noticed that there was a little part missing from her left side. He went into meditation and realized that his wife had taken away a piece of meat during the sacrifice. Now his wife also understood what happened and quickly threw the meat far away in a field. Due to the effect of the mantras uttered by the rishi there was now life in this piece of meat. Then the bones in that piece of meat became garlic and the meat became onions in that field. Thus these foods are never taken by any Vaishnava devotee because it is not vegetarian. Plus it is in the mode of ignorance." (3) Blood of demon Saimhikeya becomes Onion & Garlic Here is another story, from Puranic Encylopedia by Vettam Mani (under CANDRA VI.), (Kamba Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda and Bhagavata, Astama Skandha. Kamba Ramayana is a Tamil text by poet Kambar): “Solar eclipse according to the Puranas. The Devas and the asuras jointly churned Ksirabdhi wherefrom emerged Dhanvantari with the Amrtakumbha (pot of nectar). But an asura mayavi (magician) called Saimhikeya absconded to Patala with the Amrtakumbha which nobody noticed as everybody was busy with dividing other divine objects. Only after the mayavi’s disappearance was it noticed that the Amrtakumbha was missing. At once Mahavishnu assumed the figure of a beautiful woman, got back the Kumbha and gave it to the devas. The devas began drinking the amrta when, at the instance of some other devas, Saimhikeya, the mayavi, assuming the form of an old Brahmin reached svarga, got a share of the amrta and began to drink it. Surya and Candra (Sun and Moon) who were on guard at the gates divined the secret of the ‘old Brahmin’ and informed Mahavishnu about it. He cut the throat of the pseudo-Brahmin with his Sudarsana Chakra. But, half of the nectar he had drunk stayed above the throat and the other half below it. Therefore, though the head and the trunk were severed they remained alive. These two parts, in course of time, evolved as Rahu and Ketu. When the throat was cut some blood dropped on on the ground, and became the red onion and the white onion (garlic) respectively. So both onion and garlic originated from the throat and blood of the demons or asuras, thus their consumption brings us closer to tamo guna (mode of ignorance) which characterizes the nature of the demons and thus is detrimental to Bhakti.” --------------------- So in the Puranas there a differing stories to the nasty origins of onion and garlic so I guess you will have to take your choice on which to believe. Myself I don't believe either one. One thing though appears certain. These stories are the origins of the demonization of garlic and onion in India. If there are scientific reasons to avoid them then fine but to let these myths alone rule our thinking and actions is a silly thing IMO.

As I said above I disagree with Srila Prabhupada on several points. Also I do not call myself a follower. I may or may not ever be a follower but I will never call myself one. If the totality of my life does not bear witness to a Krishna conscious life then what value would there be in a verbal proclamation? If my life does bear witness to a Krishna conscious life then what need of a verbal proclamation? I think your first sentence is worded in a way you did not mean. IMO cow protection is more important than consuming dairy products. I believe it would have been far better if he had forbidden the consumption of dairy until cow protection was in place. No one said Prabhupada was a "bad person" and FU for trying to put those words in my mouth. No rational person can deny that supporting the demonic dairy industry is supporting cow slaughter. Can you deny the plain facts of it? Again this line of questions is really pissing me off. There is a huge difference between being unethical and chosing a wrong course of action. Well actually it is an allergy to milk protein. Milk p[roducts taken several days in a row will make me quite ill. But even though health concerns were my original reason for being vegan I later learned of the horrors of the dairy industry and that is enough to become vegan and to promote it heavily. Good deal. I just proved it in my last post. Using your quote that Srila Prabhupada said to offer commercial milk only until cow protection was established. That was over 40 years ago and it is clear cow protection in the vedic model will never be established within the next 100 years in the West to any significant degree that leaves veganism as the ONLY viable method of cow protection that we have. So it is clear that Srila Prabhupada was in favor of cow protection and you as a dairy consumer are not protecting cows but rather supporting there slaughter the onus is really on you to show that you will be a follower of Srila Prabhupada's instruction to protect the cows. Will you now?

Which hasn't been done or even seriously tried except by a handful of devotees. TIME'S UP! Stop killing cows in Krishna's name!!!

Coconut milk, yummm...1st class.

How do we accept the subject s being separate from the thread staters motive. I am accusing you of posting in order to criticize Christ and that I personally object to.So I will call you out on it as I wish.

Well I don't believe the Bible is inerrant scripture. There are very inspirational portions and some horrific nonsense in the Old Testament for instance. I have never read the whole Bible or even half of it. The teachings of Christ Himself is another matter.

Request denied. I am interested in your motive. There is nothing in your opening post that is edifying in any way. So I ask you what are you trying to accomplish. As far as I am concerned you have made yourself the topic. It is clear you want to hide behind this author to express your own feelings. Like Srila Prabhupada I consider Jesus Christ as shakyavesa-avatar and guru to the world. So in my eyes you are posting crap against God's ambassador. Naturally I am going to challenge you openly.

So the question arises as to why you Smiley would start such a thread based on the brayings of an offensive ass. What is your motive? Do you even know?

I couldn't read the whole post. The man is an offensive fool.

. Let's say the calf that Krishna is holding and protecting is a male calf. Do you think He would surrender that calf to be slaughtered for veal so you could have milk to offer Him? Does that make sense to you?

.

Where does human society get the resources to feed the elephants and whales? It doesn't because Krishna is the maintainer not humans. As Jesus said; consider the sparrows and flowers and how our Father cares for each one of them personally. There are so many cows, pigs and chickens because they are being bred to feed the voracious blood cravings of the meateating class. As people gradually begin to give up eating flesh their numbers will also decrease in a corresponding manner. If Ford is not selling so many cars then they will naturally produce less to be sold. Simple demand and supply.

This is real sacrifice. I have no choice being allergic to the milk protein so my "sacrifice" is slight. But I can speak out on their behalf and also the chickens, pigs and other victims of the hellish factory farms and this can be my sacrifice. A religious life cannot become truly a spiritual life without compassion. So we must cultivate this compassion in all aspects of our lives.

Sorry, I can not make sense of your reasoning. Whose strategy are you talking about? The slaughter of cows will not cause less cows to be born because they are all being impregnated artifically anyway. The demons have simply caused the birth of too many cows to fit with the economic reality of today. Milk production is subsidized by the government so these dairy demons all started producing more and more milk until they caused a glut in the market which brought the price down so now they have to cull the heards to get price back up. It's quite simple. When there is too much oil being drilled the price per barrel goes down and OPEC gets together and agrees among themselves to pump less oil so the price will rise again. For the dairy demons to get the price back up they must cull the herds so there will be less milk on the market. Somehow you have the opinion that by drinking more milk you will save these cows. No so gHari. The more people that drink milk the more the dairy demons will feel the need to produce more meat. Besides you cannot save these 103,000 cows they soon are destined to be slaughtered anyway. Happily I can say not one of them or any cow in the future is being slaughtered to satisfy my craving to drink their milk.On this point at least my conscience is clear. Some will be slaughtered to feed yours however. Yes time and circustance. When circumstance is right and you can obtain milk from protected cows then do it, until that time you should refrain in the name of Gopala.

Fine, it's your choice. According to you one can't be a Gaudiya Vaisnava without drinking milk. I don'r share that opinion. For me the emphasis should be on cow protection and not drinking the milk of enslaved, ill-treated and soon to be slaughtered cows.