theist

Originally posted by Tarun:

SP warned: "Christian Priests will fall down due to lack of knowledge."

But what's our excuse? Bhagavad-gItA, ZrImad BhAgavatam, CC, Brs..

Manu-smRti, Ayurveda, 108 UpaniSads, 18 PurANas, RAmAyaNa..

Minute independence = Free will; Kaliyuga is very strong

You are very right Tarunji.No excuse.We like to talk high sounding philosophy but still hang on to the dark notion that other living beings are here for us to use and exploit for our own sense gratification.

Knowledge?Plenty.

Realization?That remains to be seen.

Jagat said:

Of course, if you are attached to Krishna and Radha without any formal connection, I will not despise you. Indeed, I will venerate you. But as long as I am somewhere on the lower rungs of spiritual advancement, it will be hard for me to think of you as family. (And I will understand if the feeling is mutual.)

One of the things that attracts me to this Krishna consciousness understanding is the all inclusive nature nature of it.

I find it glorious that I have an eternal connection to Krishna and every other living being no matter what their present station.One big family brothers and sisters.

Of course we will group together in relation to our particular taste in devotional mellows.

But I must question the factual realization of life in those mellows by those who haven't even come to platform of equal vision and kinship with all living beings yet.

I accept you as family Jagat, for all eternity,rather you accept me or not.

Love to you brother soul.

theist

Jagat prabhu,

I am curious as to your position on Edward Dimock who you and others have dedicated a web site to.

He is a scholar who wrote books on Gaudiya Vaisnavism and even translated Caitanya Chartamrta before his passing.

Was he formally initiated?If not do you still read his works and/or others in a similar position?

If so,why?

Jagat prabhu,

I meant to ask you this earlier but the discussion went too fast for me.

Would you explain this statement further as I am having trouble understanding what you mean.

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, who invented the bhagavati diksha, did so as a rationalization of the initiation process. He ridiculed both the charisma (genuine spiritual realization) and therefore the legitimacy of the existing Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradayas. For him, charisma was the only legitimacy.

I know that Bhaktisiddhanta was the guru of Srila A.C. Prabhupada.

thanks

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-08-2002).]

Originally posted by Sirona:

. Baby f...ers shall be punished, no matter whether they belong to the Catholics or to any other religion.

 

No doubt.And those that protect them and keep them in their priestly posiions.

Like this Cardinal Law in Boston who knowing sent the child raper Shanley to lead other congregations in different areas of the country when the word got out about him in Boston.

Shashi,

The word celebrate was mistranslated for many years as celibate.

The monks lament.

paul108,

I'm not fit to advise anyone but I found this interesting.

letter excerpt Aug. 19,1968 to Tamala

The chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there. Now the next initiation will be performed as a ceremony officially, of course that ceremony has value because the name, Holy Name, will be delivered to the student from the disciplic succession, it has got value, but in spite of that, as you are going on chanting, please go on with this business sincerely and Krishna willing, I may be coming to you very soon. I have already written to Jayananda about this, so don't be impatient.

Oct. 9 1969 letter

My Dear Dinesh,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated October 21, 1969 along with a contribution of $25. I have already acknowledged receipt of your new record. Regarding the disciplic succession coming from Arjuna, disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion. Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna and Brahma was also a disciple of Krishna. Thus there is no disagreement between the conclusions of Brahma and Arjuna. Vyasadeva is in the disciplic succession of Brahma. The teachings to Arjuna was recorded by Vyasadeva verbatim. So according to the axiomatic truth, things equal to one another are equal to each other. We are not exactly directly from Vyasadeva, but our Gurudeva is a representative of Vyasadeva. Because Vyasadeva and Arjuna are of equal status, being students of Krishna, therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Arjuna. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another.....

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Originally posted by Jagat:

The whole idea of being born again is significant in nearly all religions. Religious experience is about rebirth.

 

Hare Krishna Jagat,

You make so many points in your post but I will focus on just a couple.

 

Here is a record of Christ explaining rebirth to Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee, a Jewish religious teacher and scholar.

 

 

 

Jesus chides him a bit at being a teacher of the Jews and not understanding the spiritual rebirth.Although as a Pharisee surely he was conversant with all the religious formalities.

 

I love vs. 8.It shows that the experience of rebirth is a transcendental experience beyond our understanding or ability to explain it.I know many have been water baptised but without the inner cleansing of the Spirit.I wonder if the same can happen at a vaisnava initiation rite?

 

 

On the other hand, Vaishnavas often have a distant relation with a guru who is a perfect transcendental being in their minds more than in reality.

 

Christian Vaisnavas have a so-called distant relationship with Jesus Christ and the Supreme Lord in His name.Sometimes in fantasy and sometimes in reality.

 

For a Vaishnava, being initiated is proof of seriousness and commitment.

 

I would say seriousness and commitment is the proof of initiation.

 

Haribol

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-07-2002).]

Jagat,

Is he the exception?Is that a fair question?Why not just deal with what he says in terms of siddhanta.If he is right then the Lord must be giving it to him.

And its up to you but if you think it is important for shiva may I ask who your guru is?If you don't wish to say I'll respect that.

Myself I'm a reborn Christian who is finding much in GV to learn from.

theist

No. Mudha.

No problem Jagat.

I'm just a senstive guy who overreacts sometimes.

I just don't trust Kripalu.But to each his own.

I don't want to divert the talk to him in case his admirers want to respond.If so do it on another thread please.

Originally posted by Jagat:

A greedy person will take gold from the sewer.

 

A desperately hungry man will eat even a dog's leftovers.

 

A person whose mind is open will hear truth even when spoken by a fool.

 

A man in love will marry his beloved, even if her family's social standing is low.

 

Greed, hunger, openmindedness and love. This is raganuga.

 

Yeah that's all well and good.But I'm finding more gold from the nicely kept fragrent gardens that the GV's are tending and opening to the public then I can possibly cash in at the moment.So the sewer will have to wait.

They also are holding wonderful feasts so the dogs bones are safe for now.

I agree I can learn something from everyone but this fool is not able to assimilate all that the GV's have said so far.

In relation to marriage I would fit description of the low born person and am seeking acceptance myself from above my station.

By the way Jagat I read you post at raganuga forum on your views of Kripalu, so what's your point?

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-02-2002).]

Originally posted by ram:

Isn't that a long list but to start with :

1. Anna Dhan

2. Vidya Dhan

3. Arokya Dhan (Medical)

4. ??? Dhan (Marriage)

5. ??? Dhan (Protection of brahmanas)

6. ??? Dhan (Protection of cows)

Ram,

I think anna means foodstuff.What does dhan mean exactly.

Anyway how about prasadam distrbution to the elderly and those that are shutins?Wheelchair bound etc.This would take some mature steady folks who could just stick to the program without heavy attempts to convert.Mostly non-indian receipes,vegetarian but in a form that would be familar.Someone may be doing this already.

Vidya dhan we should all be trying to directly or indirectly supporting the distribution of transcendental knowledge.The internet is a great tool for this.I appreciated your telling of the children you met in Chennai.

Medical.Alot can be done with clinics.Support for hospice programs.Special training and being sensitive to others beliefs would be needed.To help someone die is alot of what this philosophy is geared to.

Protection of brahmanas.If we find one we should definetly protect him or her.

Protecting cows by advancing the war against the slaughter industry.See my post on the Meet Your Meat CD thread for instance.

Marriage?Oppose homosex unions. Half joking here I'm not sure what you mean.

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-07-2002).]

Shaji,

That last posting was nice although I don't have any genuine appreciation for these things due to my present materially infected consciousness.

I do try to avoid Kripalu.Just my own personal inclination.

Haribol

Shaji,

So the quote is from Kripalu I take it.So what authority, other than himself, does he cite?

When altruistic activities are executed in the spirit of Sri Isopaniñad, they become a form of karma-yoga. Such activities are recommended in the Bhagavad-gitä (18.5–9), for they guarantee their executor protection from the danger of sliding down into the evolutionary process of birth and death. Even though such God-centered activities may be half-finished, they are still good for the executor because they will guarantee him a human form in his next birth. In this way one can have another chance to improve his position on the path of liberation.Iso 2 purport

What kind of charities would be appropriate?

paul108,

That was quite an experience.It calls to that part of my pysche that was so adventerious in these areas in the 60's.

But with an ever diminishing storehouse of neurons I best resist.

Very interesting though.

Hare Krsna

Occults refer to that as the silver cord.They say it attachs the astral body to the physical.

Although not all people who report OBE's even see it.Actually most don't.

Sooo many mysterious things.

Originally posted by Shashi:

TheistJi the Cow ...

Looks like you have been kicking butt while I was gone.

Originally posted by Rati:

The issue is not really grammarians and their compulsions, but rather clear communication in a common language - English. Granted English is one of the most difficult languages on the planet to learn for foreigners, but they should still make the effort to constantly perfect their command of it, if indeed their goal is communication.

 

I have seen quite a few really bad puns here. What's the difference between a pun that is actually effective and one that is just stupid? An effective one will elicit laughter, others just groans.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-06-2002).]

Did you miss the winking icon that was with that post?It was a light hearted attempt encourage Shashi that's all.

Not everyone's puns will be to your liking or mine.So what?

Saw this offer on VNN.Meet your meat is a short video(13 min's) distributed by PETA.It shows how animals are raised for slaughter etc.

WORLD

May 6, 2002 VNN7311

"Meet Your Meat"

BY CHALISSA1@AOL.COM

USA, May 6 (VNN) — I am an environmentalist, an animal activist & a vegetarian.

I have converted the "Meet your Meat" video into a CD rom & will send a copy of it for free to anyone with a Cd burner & a pledge to make atleast 4 copies to give to their meat eating friends.

I sent out a total of over 750 CD's last year to 60 different countries. My goal in 2002 is to double that number.

I would appreciate if you would forward this message to your members.

Anyone willing to participate, please forward your mailing address to Chalissa1@aol.com

LOL! Oh I thought I had a psychic on the other end.

Presently I would be named Mad Cow but perhaps Gauranga will rename me(change my nature) some day.

Hare Krsna

Originally posted by Shashi:

Oh I am sorry for you (that I am calling you as sensitive woman )

No problem.We must cultivate the softness of the rose as well as the hardness of the thunderbolt, so I took it as a compliment.

But I am definitely feeling (someone is showing me) that you are being the gentle white cow (female) being especial for one gopi devi. You are having one "M" in nagri letter hanging around your neck.

Your abilities in chewing the variety of grasses and obtaining the needed essentials from same is being like your abilities in knowing ShivaJi's best meanings and rejecting his chaffs.

Theist Prabhu, what means this "M" please?

 

 

 

That is a nice picture, thank you.But I am not sure what the "M" would be.When you say someone is showing you are you refering to an unseen helper?

 

Originally posted by Shashi:

This is being the very good referencing for our discussions here.

I am agreeing with most thoroughly TheistJi.

You must being a woman also for the such sensitive incite.

 

Male form Shashi.

You are liking my inputs sometimes?

I am asking earlier of others but now I am asking of you - should I get the helping from learned PanditJi to trnaslate mine messages into the better English so I am not wasting everyone's times in the deep discussions?

 

Yes I have enjoyed your posts.As far as having someone help translate when you get into the very subtle areas it might be helpful.But then most of that goes over my head even if the English is flawless and the commas properly placed.

 

My trouble is with the Sanskrit and Bengali phrases.I really need a GV glossary.

 

So keep the posts coming Shashi and we will all help each other remember the Divine couple.

 

Hare Krsna,

theist