BVI

Yeah. So attached to the body and so detached from Radharani and Krishna that we are ready to sit right on the bank of the top most place in creation, Their favorite place, and plop a big stinking dodo, and then try to philosophically defend it. No sense of shame, common sense, respect or gratitude. Offering all respect and fully surrendering everything you have doesn't include offering your stool to the kunda.

Some points- 1. The capacity for a dug well is ten families. 2. Fines for voiding faeces in a holy place, in a place for water, in a temple, and in royal property are one pana rising successively by one pana, half of that for passing urine. If these are due to medicine, illness or fear, the persons are not to be fined. Concerning dwelling places: 3. He should make the cow dung hill, the water course or the well, not in a place other than that suited to the house, except the waste-water ditch for a woman in confinement till the end of ten days from delivery. The idea here is that there is to be no septic system in the house, except for the 10 days following child birth when a woman is not to leave the house. 4. Of sheds, court-yards, latrines, fire places, and pounding sheds, and of all open spaces, use in common is desired. Shared bathrooms is the "in thing". Passing stool in your house is uncivilized, as is wearing shoes in the house. House is for making a sanctified asrama for sadhana, puja, cooking, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. The presence of septic wastes and the activities of releasing them disturb the purity of all these functions. Uncleanliness is a cause of disease, and where you dwell is not the place to park your septic matter. No matter how well you clean a bathroom it never becomes clean. You cannot maintain cleanliness wherever there is a bathroom, just as your body, below the naval, is never considered clean. By even touching the stool room you must take bath to restore cleanliness. That the stool room touches your dwelling place physically, aurally, olfactorily, and is in range of vision is not pure or favorable for the activities to be conducted in the home. For sastra to urge a woman who just gave birth 10 days prior to get up and go out to pass stool is really something when you consider what a woman's condition is at likely to be at that time. Other than that there is no scope for turning your home into a septic field. The injunction for pregnant women really drives home the importance and seriousness of the importance of septic arrangements and the need to go outside for releasing them. How many diseases are contracted from the home where septic arrangements are integrated with living quarters? I am sure the CDC or the AMA must have those stats. Srila Prabhupada would point out the folly of the pride in being able to reduce one's fat through yoga, or some advanced technique. He would retort, "Why should you increase your fat in the first place?" The same logic can be applied to disease. "Yes we have manufactured so many pharmacueticals to combat diseases." but why should you live in a manner than invites disease in the first place? Children want to touch everything, chew everything and put their hands in their mouth, and they come infected and spread diseases by getting into the bathrooms, and so on. Why even give that a chance to happen? The common cold is only common where the private unclean bathroom is found, I suspect. Touching dirty taps, sinks, tubs, toilets, and so on is all unnecessary and artificial demonic arrangements for laziness and people unwilling to undergo the tapasya of being a human being. Your big city arrangements and the current state of filth therein is the reaction for being in the mode of passion and ignorance. Move them out to the rural areas and establish sane and pure villages where people can achieve cleanliness and the mode of goodness. City means hell. Those who are attached there are condemned prisoners who must suffer. What can be done for them other than convince them that there is something higher than the hell they live in? Of course the demonic leaders will never cooperate and agree that people will be allowed to keep their homes purified, like the demons who pass stool and puss on the brahmanas sacrificial ceremonies to disturb the success of their religious rites. Home means sacrificial arena for performing samskaras, yajnas, and so on. They will insist that you live like a filthy swine and keep your stool with you and pass stool on the head of your Deity. I was in one devotee's home where the bathroom upstairs made a loud sound when flushing, and the pipe was running down the wall where the temple room was. It was so horrible. But it was a rented house and he was stuck. For preaching Krishna has to tolerate as much as we do. But if we are talking about our own farm communities, or reforming society, then we have to go with the Vedic system if we want to be classified as human. Tolerating animals to benefit them is a preaching matter and must be done. Srila Prabhupada had to keep his bhoga in a refrigerator along with meat when he first arrived in the USA from India. What can be done? What is that thing a Vaishnava is unwilling to do to please Krishna?

ATMA:1. If we feel atraction to a certain rasa while we are doing our sadhana is it because we experimented that particular rasa before? Whether you had previously "experimented" with a rasa is not a relevant issue. There is no way to determine that except by chanting. Through chanting you may come to know of your past lives according to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Bhajan Rahasya. The important thing is that you have some attraction, and that is a good thing that gives encouragement and hope to continue further. Keep on truckin. 2. Why one soul will be in dasya rasa and other in madhurya, who determine that? You are what you are. You have always been that. Krishna determined it through the inconceivable lottery system, or His whim. Whatever you want to call it. It made Him happy, so just go with it, water His root, and you will be perfectly happy with whoever you are eternally beyond your wildest imagination. There is a plan for you and your happiness--that is what Krishna meditates on while you meditate on pleasing Him. He can please you must more than you can please Him, but that is what competition is all about. Prove your might and do everything in your capacity to please Him. 3. Where is our free will? Our desires? Or we just want to serve the Lord in any capacity and He give us our service and we happily do it? Is that what we call unconditional love? Your free will is not defined or exercised in relationship to your eternal identity. You are who you are and you will love it when you get there to realize it. Don't even worry about something being forced on you. You are you, and that is the perfect thing for you and for Krishna's pleasure. He wants you to be yourself, and so will you when you realize it. There is nothing in the creation that could be better for you. You are the ultimate you. When you realize who you are you will be totally stoked and happy beyond expression. You will laugh to yourself and happily say, "That's me eternally. Very cool. I am so happy to have such an intimate and confidential relationship with Radharani who is so kind and merciful to me. She is my best friend. She is looking out for me and I will give my life and everything to Her just to make Her happy. She is the best." Just be your real self. You are great-the real you. Now as far as your false identity, that stinks. But that is only temporary. Soon you will be home in good company serving your most dear ones as if nothing ever happened down here. Maya is completely conspicuous by her absence. Your Servant

When ISKCON actually gets a place in Radha Kunda, then I am sure they will become locally conscious and make positive contributions as they have with various initiatives in Vrindavan like the reforestation project, Go-shalla, cow feeding to stray cows, and so on. ISKCON means benefitting others and that has historically been most devotees mood. ISKCON devotees actually appreciate the brajabasi and the holy dhama from my observations and like to serve brajabasis like the food for life and the kitchari program for the Vrindavan widows, etc. [This message has been edited by BVI (edited 06-05-2002).]

You sound like the Indian govt. They mismanage, allow the cows to roam around the streets and eat plastic bags, then attack ISKCON for not solving the problem they are responsible to solve on the basis of ISKCON's perceived deep pockets. Then when you ask for the Govt for land to solve the problem they deny you. This is what Canakya calls rascal mentality. A rascal, he explains, knowing that he is liable for something to a person preemptively criticizes him so that he can slither out of his obligation. If the babajis are ready to pass the buck on this one, then they should also be ready to pass on ownership and control of their property. Ownership means responsibility. If the babajis are too incompetent to manage their affairs and are requesting us to come in and literally wipe their butts, then maybe they shouldn't have those properties to begin with. Looks like they have been promoted to their level of incompetency and are in need of a lateral shift away from the edges of the kunda. Are they really so strapped for cash that they can't arrange for some fill dirt? Each septic tank they have should cost about Rs. 200 each for a truckload of dirt. That means $4 US. Maybe they have ten such tanks? That would be $40 plus labor at $4 per day for one laborer working eight hours. Which babaji cannot collect that much from even one of his Western admirers? The fact is that they have the cash. They lack the respect and devotion to Radharani, as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati explained. "There is no scarcity of anything in this world. The only thing that is lacking is Krishna consciousness." Vaishnava means they leave a place cleaner. Since this group of babajis hit Radha Kunda, we have to say "Vaishnava ke?" What kind of Vaishnava are you who passes stool in Radha Kunda? Walking a mile a day for Radharani's service doesn't seem to be asking for much since they go much further to collect food, what to speak of Giriraj parikrama, which some are proud of doing every day (approx. 11 miles). For eating and the tongue they can go miles and miles to remote villages to enjoy varieties of subjis, but for passing stool and respecting Radharani they cannot go even one mile? Who said they accept these people as gurus? Guru means to set an example. What kind of example is it to pass stool on the banks of Radha Kunda? We need to redefine the limit of the bank to at least 75 feet. I would prefer 2000 meters, but I know it won't happen. So let's get the babajis to follow in the footsteps of at least the 6 billion Rakshasas who show more respect to an ordinary well, since they are not willing to follow in the footsteps of the Six Gosvamis in respecting Radharani's lake. Rakshasa culture dictates that one should not pass stool or have a septic tank within 75 feet of any ordinary well. Let's convince the babajis to respect Radha Kunda at least this much by filling in their tanks with dirt. The whole project will probably cost less than $108. If I see it gets done and I don't care how it is arranged financially or politically, I will pay for the entire cost of the work and then some. I am willing to pay bribes to the tune of $500. Otherwise I will organize a massive campaign in the Indian media and in Vraja showing the lab results of the water test and how the babajis are passing stool in Radharani's lake like eco-terrorists. Be thankful I am gentleman enough to give them a chance to rectify their mistakes. I am not just out to attack or find fault, but I will do everything socially, economicially and politically within my power to protect and defend my object of worship from offenses like this. I am giving them until August 1 2002 to complete the work. That is more than enough time. It actually can be completed in a week. Those of you who call them guru may want to act as a dhyuti to relay this message as any chaste manjari would do in the line of service. Mr. Pandita: "Clean-up your act or get out of town." [This message has been edited by BVI (edited 06-05-2002).]

The Manipura property is not ISKCON. It is a Manipur trust with one GBC as a member. THe rest are non-ISKCON members. The Brajabasi property supposedly donated to ISKCON is under dispute. ISKCON has effectively lost control of the property as far as I know. Practically, ISKCON has no property in Radha Kunda at this moment. If they reclaim that property I will push them to close off those septic tanks as well.

Radha Kunda is governed by a committee and there is an elected chairman, which this term is currently a Bengali woman who sells bangles while squatting on the side of the road. The other members are reportedly busy siphoning funds from the village budget as fast as they can. She and the committe are powerless and effectively non-existent. The babajis should not pass the buck. They are land owners and have full rights to drain out and back fill all septic tanks they own within 75 feet of the edge of all the kundas. Others will follow suit. The babajis should set the example and lead the others. This will be done after a series of professional water analysis conducted to everyone's satisfaction. The alternative is to take the long walk or the short one if you are confident of being a brajabasi, or to establish public facilities outside the protective range of 75 ft. from any body of water or well (that means Syama and Lalita Kundas and any others). The water was tested recently by one devotee and human fecal matter was found in very high levels. Septic tank, old septic tank, septic tank built in India, and old septic tanks in India means leaking. Ground settling, earth movement (quakes), and other stresses from above cause cracking, seepage and so on. If they have drain fields then they are designed to leak slowly over time. I have seen new ones built in Radha Kunda and old ones serviced (opened and emptied) and it appears that the standard is just to build a box out of brick and mortar, then fill it with juice and let it sit until it get full, then bring in you local bhangi and have him empty it into the street by the bucket full (sorry no suction hose trucks). It is not pretty. Radha Kunda deserves 2000 meters distance from this stuff, at least. I understand from aural tradition that there is a place in Vraja which is a small square section of land which is representative of the material creation, just as Vaikuntha and other spiritual planets have their representative harmonic counterpart in Vraja. Apparently that is where the Gosvamis would go from Radha Kunda to pass stool and urine. That would explain a lot and the argument that all of Vraja is cintamini, excepting that theoretical location which would be material energy--a most appropriate place to unload your baggage. Something to research at least. Vrindavan is a mystical and far out place which we have a lot to learn about. It is not ordinary in any sense. There are rules and ways of doing things that we need to respect if we are going to be there.

Before you go off on an psuedo-intellectual speculation fest to reduce the Vedic way to zero, and reconvince yourself of the greatness of the status quo and glorify the what Srila Prabhupada calls the modern demoniac system of ugra karma, let's focus on the objectives of the discussion I am willing to entertain at this time: 1) Stop raw sewage from leaking and seeping into Radha Kunda. 2) Take preventative measures to close down and back-fill all septic tanks and fields within 75 feet of the boundary of the kundas (at least the normal modern zoning definition of a safe distance from a well) Figure out how you are going to accomplish this. Make your proposal and be constructive instead of trying to derail this effort in order to protect the so-called name of a few people from Bangladesh. My proposal is clear. Make a modern zoning regulation to relocate all sewage or septic facilities 75 feet from Radha Kunda. I think Radha Kunda at least deserves the minimum same treatment afforded by any rakshasha to any ordinary well. Otherwise your policy of maintaining the status quo is tantamount to treating Radharani and Her favorite lake as a septic pool. Get the so-called owner of the lake to inforce this policy. He is the leader right? You are his followers, so lead him if he has no insight, vision or appreciation. You are all realized Western cultured people so you can use your sales and marketing skills to convince him.

There is a difference between not following and not agreeing. If I fail to follow I am a violater. If I denounce the validity or authority of the sastra I am an atheist. I am a preacher and I pass stool according to time place and circumstance. I do not own a house. I am working to implement the Vedic way of doing things in my preaching efforts as far as I can influence others to change. I am not posing as a Rupa Gosvami imitator. If I lived at Radha Kunda and had nothing better to do to save the world other than my own spiritual progress, then I would walk a mile to pass stool to respect Radharani's lake. It would be the least I could do, but at this time in my life I don't live like that. My approach to Radha Kunda is that I fast before going to such holy places, as is customary, so that I won't have to waste time and leave my remnants in those areas. I sprinkle three drops of water after doing dandavat parikrama of Radha Kunda and don't take full bath touching my feet to Radharani. That is my vow. It is a special place for me.

Raga, I have to admit, after seeing those last two posts by Sha and Prema108, I am coming to appreciate your culture, at least as the best of the bunch. I don't recall you getting so nasty. As Jagat was appreciating you have been rather polite (though not perfectly so). I think it is the influence of all those BBT books you distributed that is protecting you. Okay, nice try, but that endeavor as Srila Prabhupada says elsewhere is for liberated souls. You are only proving my point, which is not my own, but Srila Prabhupada's. "...Out of many such people who are advanced in knowledge [jnanis], one who is practically liberated by virtue of his knowledge may take to devotional service. He is superior to the others. However, one who has actually attained prema, pure love of Krsna, is superior to him..." NoI 10 Prabhupada said first become human, then become brahmana then become Vaishnava, it is not a cheap thing. One has to become liberated even to take to devotional service as a real not imitation devotee. Here is another one... Prabhupada: So Krsna is Acyuta. He never falls. So this is a false theory that when God falls down He becomes a jiva, and when He is again revived in His original position, He becomes God. This is nonsense theory. It has no meaning. God never falls down. But rascals, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [bg. 9.11], because they're rascals, they think Krsna as ordinary human being. Avajananti mam mudhah. Therefore Krsna's lila in Vrndavana, so many rascals, they think that Krsna's dealing with the gopis is the same as one young man or young boy plays with other young girls. No. They are different. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih. This dealing, in this material world, between young boys and girls, they're material. They're simply a reflection of the original dealings. The verse in the Vedanta-sutra, janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. From Brahman everything is emanating. Without being in Brahman, nothing can be manifest or existing within this world. So these love affairs between young girls and young boy, is there in Brahman. That is the dealing of Krsna and the gopis. So that dealing is pervertedly reflected within this material world. It is not the same thing. It is different. But those who are not in the knowledge, they take it that the dealings... Idam Visnu and the vraja-vadhu... It is so nice that actually if one hears about the dealings of the gopis and Krsna, then he becomes so elevated in devotion that he forgets the lusty dealings between man and woman. That is the result. It is stated in the Bhagavatam, apahinoti, bhaktim pratilabhya apahinoti kamam.. If one is eligible to hear the dealings of gopis and Krsna, the result will be he'll forget the lusty desires of this material world. Therefore it is not for all. These dealings of gopis and Krsna is meant for the liberated person. They can hear, not the ordinary persons. Therefore this krsna-lila is given in the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. So don't jump over. First of all you try to understand Krsna, Acyuta. Janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah svarat [sB 1.1.1]. To understand Krsna, not only... The Bhagavad-gita is the ABCD, and Srimad-Bhagavatam begins when one is actually Krsna conscious. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [bg. 18.66]. Then Srimad-Bhagavatam begins. So don't jump over the krsna-lila or jump over Radha-kunda unless you are a liberated person. This is the instruction. Acyuta. You must be also acyuta -- not falling down from the standard of pure devotional service. Acyuta-gotra. Srimad-Bhägavatam 1.7.16 -- Vrndävana, September 14, 1976 And more nectar... Prabhupada: You know that. Hard struggle. So Krsna gave us some facility. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we... sato vrtteh sadhu-sange. That is Rupa Gosvami's line. We should be very honest and live with sadhu, those who are devotees. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvamis. ei chay gosai yar mui taro das tan-sabara pada-renu mora panca-gras You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahaprabhu... sri-caitanya-mano 'bhistam sthapitam yena bhu-tale svayam rupah kada mahyam dadati sva-padantikam [When will Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?] That should be our prayer. When Rupa Gosvami, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet. And that is... Narottama dasa Thakura prays, tandera carana-sebi. Tandera means the six Gosvamis. Ei chay gosai yanr tanr mui das. I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvamis. And we pray to our Guru Maharaja, rupanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta-harine. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rupa Gosvami, reject him. Rupanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta. This is our process. Ei chay gosai yanr. rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti kabe hama bujhabo se jugala-piriti Who will understand Radha-Krsna's loving affairs unless one has gone really through the instruction of Rupa Gosvami. Radha-Krsna loving affairs is not so easy. Radha-kunda is not so easy that by force I go to Radha-kunda and become a candidate. rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti kabe hama bujhabo se jugala-piriti Narottama dasa Thakura is hankering, "When I shall understand about Radha-kunda, Radha-Krsna's prema? Such liberated great devotees, acaryas, they are hankering. Rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti, kabe hama bujhabo. When I shall understand? And they have understood immediately everything. (Hindi) That is solved. Not so easy. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given us the facility. abodha karuna-sindhu kaciya mahan prahlada brahma durlab prema nitai kore dhana(?) That is the special verse. It is not very easy thing. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [bg. 7.19]. Don't take things very easily. Things are very serious. Therefore we have to go step by step. That is, Narottama dasa Thakura said, tandera sange. Aim should be how to serve Rupa-Raghunatha. And bhakta-sane bas, to stay with pure devotee who has no other intention. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [brs. anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam anukulyena krsnanu- silanam bhaktir uttama "One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Krsna favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service." Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.111.1.11]. This is the process. So do it carefully. That's all. Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrindävana One should give up all material conceptions means prior to residing there. That is a pre-requisite just to come to real devotional service, what to speak of these highly elevated platforms of raganuga and the most elevated place of Radha Kunda. You are interpreting these things very cheaply for your own sense pleasure. That is the meaning of materialistic pretender. sahajiya. You are just demonstrating it over and over, yet you fail to see it. That is your ignorance and folly. When will you wake up? [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-02-2002).]

Now you are just indulging in hypocrisy. You condemned Brajabasis because they came to Vraja recently, showing that you consider any new immigrants as fakes, and then you come up with this. You want to create a definition that only favors your sectarian group of offenders, who will never get vrajabasi status as long as they continue to offend the residents of Vraja by keeping machine guns, passing stool in Radha Kunda, not paying their taxes, having sex in the dress of Rupa Gosvami, and criticizing real gurus and acaryas like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and his representatives. If they clean up their act philosophcally, socially, economically and politically then I will accept them as Vrajabasis too. Until that time they are just obnoxious guests who have overstayed their welcome and need to be sent home. If they want to make it their home, then they have to join the family and that means to appreciate the Brajabasis.

"Here's my estimated pride sheet" more like it. Okay, but be proud about distributing Srila Prabhupada's books. (My Guru, by the way, which I have said several times). IF you actually distributed Srila Prabhupada's books, then you have done something nice. I will retract my previous statement in that regard and I officially apologize for that. All glories to this service! Keep up the good work on this front. No comment here. No benefit, and even negative benefit for spreading deviation. Fortunately your ISKCON service is eternal and cannot be destroyed by any manner of offenses, but the benefits you are to receive from it can be checked by this deviant behavior. I am here to help you clear your path and get back on track. Go back to distributing Srila Prabhupada's books exclusively and you will be in a better position. I am praying to Radharani to give you the intelligence to see that.

Good question. The answer is given by Srila Prabhupada "Don't make friends and don't make enemies." Remain a distance and just appreciate. Don't get too close. You are full of pride, misconceptions, speculations and lack knowledge of the science of waste management. The Vedic system is superior. You fire an arrow from a long bow and the distance is travels is the minimum safe distance for passing stool. I don't know the range of a long bow, but let's say 200 meters. That means the Gosvamis went 10 times further than that to show special respect to Radharani's favorite place. To respect a normal place 200 meters, to respect the higher place 2000. It is a question of respecting the place. An open field where people go to pass stool is not necessarily a smelly place. It diferentiates humans from animals. Animals have no shame, except cats who bury their stool. Hogs will roam there in the field and clean it up along with the purifying rays of the sun. It is a wonderful system as long as you don't use water. When you start introducing water is when you have all the problems. That is one reason why people don't travel during the rainy seasons because it is a time of removal and purification of the fields and rivers carry it all away. People generally remain indoors. Just as a woman is purified by her menses, the rains purify the earth. When a woman is in that condition, like the earth, she should not be touched. This is called getting in tune with Divine arrangement. If you want to propagate imperfect concocted Western culture, values and systems, then why have you joined the Sankirtana movement? If you are against passing stool in fields then you are an atheist, or pasandi for rejecting the Vedic version. I am fully aware of the Western septic and sewer systems (I have even seen the installation of a few systems) and they are responsible for poisoning the ground water and polluting the rivers and oceans. Urgra karma, which is always the demons preferred method of doing things. There is a Vedic art of living and that should be implemented whenever and wherever possible because it is the most favorable way of living for cultivating devotional service. This was one of the most important and major issues in planning the Mayapura project. Waste management. We need to show an example to the rest of the world what is the value of Vedic culture. That is a part of our mission, and it begins with cultivating a sense of humility and shame, at least enough to restrict you from passing stool in Radharani's lake. It should begin from there. Then we can talk about reforming the rest of the world. Are you so advanced that you can pass stool in Her lake like the turtles who live there?

"Probably"? The fact is that there are two bona fide systems for Radha Kunda. One for followers of Mahaprabhu and one for Brajabasis. Everything else is a recent concoction. Septic tanks, open sewers, and all this nonsense is concoction. The followers of Mahaprabhu get to take the longer walk, and the Brajabasis get to take the shorter walk to Mala Kunja (behind the burning ghat). Get to know the Brajabasis and they will explain everything. They are beautiful people if you approach them properly. But I also admit, you should not get too close. Learn how to benefit from the fire of their presence without getting burnt. If you try to do business in the holy dhama against regulations then you will probably get cheated. They know how. But their cheating means to offer something extra to their Giriraja, whereas your cheating will probably result in your own sense gratification. The six Gosvamis were not so arrogant to think they could imitate the Brajabasis by passing stool in their designated area, walking on Govardhan Hill, and so on. They were respected as different, special, and beyond criticism, only to be served and appreciated. Where is that verse by any Gosvami criticising any Vrajabasi? Rather we see, "Even if they just talk all gossips with me, I will remain there with them in Vraja, no where else." This is the bona fide feelings of a follower of Mahaprabhu. Not, "Babaji Maharaja says we need automatic weapons to protect ourselves from these so-called newly immigrated Vrajabasi gundas who have nothing better to do than bathe their filthy children in our lake that we own, and cut into our profits by their panda racket of Brajabasi-seva." The fact is that the Brajabasi Panda actually do Brajabasi seva with those donations they collect at the kunda. Anyone who comes to their home will be fed, even a babaji. How someone can take food from the hand of such a brajabasi brahmana and then criticize his sitting out all day in the extreme climate of the kunda working hard to help people properly respect the kunda by doing pujas for their benefit, it certainly shameless ingratitude. Every occupation has some fault Krishna says in Gita, and for the brajabasi pandas it is having to coerce uncultured andm iserly kali yugites how to properly respect the kunda, and they do that successfully. In return they get the time-honored brahmanas dakshina. That is the culture and the ancient system and tradition. They are not cheap imitators or concocters. They are doing their prescribed duty, albeit with some imperfections. But they are beyond our criticism. You have to become a brajabasi bramana tirtha guru panda in order to criticize them. If you don't like their system take bath somewhere else. For the brajabasis there is no discrimination. They have faith in Radharani. The babajis of Ananta Panda on the other hand are so sectarian they only feed their people in their daily free lunch. Even ISKCON has more culture than the babajis. They do food for life for anyone and anyone without discrimination on a regular basis. The babajis have made a not-so-gorgeous arrangement for the happiness of a few people only, and Srila Prabhupada says that means "demon" (like Indira Gandhi and Company). Real religion means to see that everyone becomes happy, and the babajis have done a piss poor job of even pleasing the brajabasis who are kindly allowing them to reside there. They have some cleaning up to do in all sections of the kunda. Read Manah Siksha verse one on how to get direct service, "Develop unprecendented love for the Brajabasis..." Where is that love if you are finding fault in them and keeping guns for shooting them? Where is the realization? Where is the direct service? Where is the raganuga with priti and purva-kama? Better let them kill you if it is your karma and Radharani's desire than to even think of harming them in any way. As Srila Prabhupada says, a devotee is never harmful. Harmful means demon. ISKCON at least hires other local Brajabasis to protect their property and that is the proper way to deal with those issues. Why a babaji would pack an automatic weapon to eventually kill or injure a Brajabasi means he has overstayed his welcome in Vraja. Time to go home to Bangladesh and live amongst the 90% muslims there and do some serious introspection. Then maybe they can come back with fresh appreciation of how sweet and wonderful it is to still have Brajabasis to live amongst. There is no question of advanced devotion, even at the stage of sadhana within the hearts of such offenders. When you see a Brajabasi outside of Vraja your heart should melt and tears should come to your eyes, not suspicions of whether his family arrived in Vraja just 15 generations ago instead of 500. This is just material vision and offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself, but it appears you are a shameless offender and pretender.

First you accept and correct yourself by following Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Prabhupada, then you can discuss Srila Bhaktivinoda. You want to jump over the immediate acarya and make some sentimental claim to following the superior acarya. This is Vasihnava aparadha and impertinent and intolerable offense. You have no relationship, no access and no standing with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. You obviously don't have a philosophical leg to stand on within your own sampradaya. But why imitate and cut and paste from our gurus? Either you and your Pandita come and surrender to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's current representative in genuine humility as become bona fide followers or mind your own nonsense business. You are only trying to take strength from our acaryas to do politics and try to win arguments, but that isn't the process. You admit Bhaktivinoda is the superior acarya, so why not surrender to him in the proper way? Don't remain a hodge-podge. i am glad you have appreciation for my guru, but your approach it kaccha, or half-baked. If I am to discuss philosophy with you then there has to be a basis of authority from which to discuss for understanding not arguing, and the etiquette is that the junior inquires submissively from the senior if he wants to learn, and the senior reveals the confidential knowledge to the point he has realized it. That is what it means to discuss as a follower of Srila Rupa Gosvami. You are not properly approaching through the authorized process, another proof of Srila Prabhupada's statement in Nectar of Devotion that the siddha pranali people are not authorized, nor are they followers of Srila Rupa Gosvami. You are concocting your own process. I cannot discuss with you until to submit to the bona fide process and accept my gurus as the basis of authoritative knowledge. I do not associate with pretenders, offenders of my gurus, sahajiyas or nonsense-I try to rescue such drowning dogs by preaching to them to catch up the lotus feet of all my gurus, not just the ones that they mistakenly think support their nonsense. I will be happy to associate with you and explain anything you want to know more about provided that you follow the process and surrender to at least give up the camp you are presently aligned with. Your Servant [This message has been edited by BVI (edited 06-02-2002).]