nav

Thanx for the link

Nice, really good

Arjuna

Hello Daas ka Daas, You were the one who wrote previously that you were in BAPS since child hood and you left BAPS just because the senior saints of BAPS were not able to answer your questions. I think you should go back and look at the answer to your post and your questions. I made it very clear to you with refernces. You didnt relply back to my post after that. I dont understand how many times will you go round and round, I have no idea why are you doing this. Any ways I will answer it again, Firstly About Gunatitanand Swami, Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj wrote in Kirtan Kaustubhmala His exact words in it are: "Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya vartman, Pote paline pachi palavya, Janne dai ghanu Gnan....." Here when he says Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami then it means Akshar Murtimaan and not a Brahmswarup Saint but Brahman himself. This book abt maharaj written by Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj was printed by Kothari Hathibhai Nanajibhai in 1912 AD at Mumbai by your Management. Please do refer it, If I am wrong pease state what is written in there. Now in Harililakalpataru, Achintyanand Brahmachari (Who was not from BAPS) does the Stuti of Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar: Here what it states "Yadromavivare leena Andanam kotayah Pruthak| Tadhaksharam Gunatitam Gunatitam Namamyaham||" In Brief it means: In whose every pore Infinite Brahmands stay different from each other, that Akshar who is Gunatit(above three Gunas), I bow down to that Gunatit(Gunatitanand Swami) . When Maharaj gave diksha to Gunatitanand Swami in Dabhan, that description in Harililakalpataru as follows: "Muljisharma Dikshaam Dadanasya prajayate| Bhuyonmetra Samanando Tato Dhamaksharam Sa Me|| Mukteyranantayha saakam Me Yatrakhandtayoshyate| Urdhvobhagarhitam Tanmulam Dhaam Chaksharam|| Harileelakalpataru: 7th Skand, 17th Adhyaya It means: Mulji Akshar who is my murtimaan Akshardhaam, which is dimensionless, Where I stay with my infinite Muktas, I am very happy to give him diksha today. If this sholka means something else then please do give me the real meaning. You say Nishkulanand Swami stated Gopalanand Swami as Akshar, Please do provide the reference???. Look at the Junagadh Mandir -Sabha Gruh and Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam murtis (or say photo or painting).Now you cant say that this doesnt exist or BAPS went into the Mandirs and installed it. I have sited them my self and have the pictures as well. I dont know the process to upload the pics on this forum. All of them and a few other mandirs state clearly beneath the Photos as Mul Akshar Gunatitanand Swami. Maharaj in Vadtal 5 clearly states that "If you spend 5 rupees for god then you should spend 5 rupees for his Uttam Bhakta as well......" He also said-"Jetlu Raja nu rajya etluj Rani nu Raj..." It doesnt mean that Queen replaces the King. Gadhada-I-68 states:"Eight types of Murtis where god resides and the ninth is the Sant" Gunanatitanand Swami is such Sant and Uttam Bhakta. Akshar is Akshar since Anadi but the Akshar mukts have done the Bhakti of ParaBrahman and attained such State. So, Akshar is the Devotee since Anadi i.e., Time immemorial. Read Loya 12, Maharaj Clearly says that Uttam NIrvikalp Nishachay is attained only by reaching a state equvivalent to that of Aksharbrahman. It clearly means that Akshar's Bhakti and NIshachay is not comparable with any of the Jivas including Acharya Maharaj. Now Maharaj said in Shikshapatri that Laxmi with narayan is called Laxminarayan, Nar and Narayan is called Narnarayan etc..And in Shikshapatri Shlok 111, Maharaj clearly states that Radha, Laxmi etc.. are Bhagwan's Bhaktas who somtimes are next to him or sometimes reside in the body. Now at that time every one knew abt Laxminarayan, Narnarayan etc He was trying to hint something else. In shloka 203 Mahraj says that he has written this shikshapatri in brief and for more knowledge refer to the Sampraday Scriptures. The Most Authentic Scripture after Shikshapatri(Written by Maharaj) is Vachanamrut(Words Spoken by Maharaj). From Vachanamrut Gad-I-41, Maharaj clearly states that he doesnt reside in Prakrutipurush as much as he resides in Akshar. Prakrutipurush is the first Tatva for creation (Khagol Bhugol, Gad-I-41, Gad-II-31 etc..), It means it is only Purushottam Narayan above AksharBrahman and nobody else and also Akshar is above Maya with ParaBrahman since Anadi. Therefore Akshar is the Sarva Sreshta and Uttam Bhakta Of Maharaj. It means all the Muktas, Prakrutipurush, Pradhanpurush, Viratpurush,all Avatars and gods, and Jivas do not Understand the Swarup of Maharaj as much as Akshar does. There for to know the Paripurna Mahima and possess complete Swarup Nishta, Akshar or Mahraj himself is required (loya12). Thus from Shikshapatri when Maharaj says abt Knowing the Avatars along with their Uttambhaktas, He means to say to himself along with his Uttam Bhakta. And also in Vachanamrut Gad -III-38,Maharaj says that we should bow down to Avatars but Upasana should be done only of the Pragat Bhagwan and also in Loya-11 he says that we shouldnt do the Dhyan of Paroksh Avatars. Now in Shikshapatri he says to sing the glory of Radha Krishna but in Vachanamrut he stresses on not doing the Upasana of Paroksh Avatars. So, It is clear that Maharaj doesn't want us to do the Bhakti of Radha Krishna or Narnarayan but he wants us to his bhakti along with his Uttam Bhakta as people have done in past of Laxminarayan etc.. Talking about Guru Parampara, the gurus are no different but Akshar Brahman himself. Its just the outer appearance is changing but the entity remains Akshar, because in order to attain Brahmic State one requires Brahman himself. How do we know that? well his vartan, his qualities and his Bhakti are just not comparable to any body. It was Gunatitanand Swami who introduced Bhagatji Maharaj, and it was Bhagatji Maharaj who introduced Shastriji Maharaj ....etc. You talk about Guru Parampara being in Scriptures, Where in Scriptures does it say about that Moksha is through Acharya Maharaj. Maharaj in Vachanamrut always uses Sant or Bhakta or Satpurush (Gad I-27, Gad-II-51..) to be the door for Liberation. The Guru of BAPS is that Satpurush or Sant or Bhakta. I will definitely answer more, But before that you now state Where does Nishkulanand Swami State Gopalanand Swami as Akshar????? If he says Gopalanand Swami to be Akshar then why dont you guys install Gopalanand Swami beside Maharaj just like Laxmi Narayan or Nar Narayan???? I think you yourself are confused, First answer these questions?? Jai Swaminarayan

Hi there, Please feel free to ask anything about Akshar Purushottam Upasana, Can help you clarify with references. If possible you can read some of my old posts. Cheers Jai Swaminarayan

Why dont you dicuss the scriptures and Show what true Agna and Upasana are?? Dont just keep advising people, You said we dont understand Vachanamrut. What exactly according to you we dont understand???? Please come up with references rather that just talking ???

Jai Swaminarayan, Hey Dude Why do you feel that BAPS is not following the scriptures??? Clarify yourself and we can answer.

Hello my friend, I read this post of yours and thought to give you some points about Swaminarayan: 1) Swaminarayan is not a separate religion, It belongs to Vedic Hindu religion. 2)Proper Swaminarayan followers who have attained a Staunch faith that, Lord Swaminarayan is the ParaBrahman and source of all incarnations. It is Lord Swaminarayan who has explained that there are 5 Entites: Jivas,Ishwaras,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman, They are never created, they exist since time immemorial(Anadi), except Maya. There are infinite Jivas and infinite Ishwaras. He said that Jivas and Ishwaras are all under Maya since existance. Only two entities remain above Maya i.e., Brahman and ParaBrahman, they have never been in contact with Maya. All Jivas, Ishwaras, Maya and Brahman are all dependent on ParaBrahman but ParaBrahman is all independent. That ParaBahman is Lord Swaminarayan who descended on this earth by his free will. He is not an incarnation of anyone, he himself is the source of incarnation. Realising oneness with Brahman we have to do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman, that is the Basic concept. So if we have the refuge of ParaBrahman purushottam narayan why need to pray to other gods. It is not that we disrespect them, we always bow down to every god and all incarnations but our faith and Pativrata Bhakti is towards Lord Swaminarayan. His abode is Akshardhaam which is above maya. Once a Jiva or Ishwara attaining Brahmic state reaches Akshardhaam, there is no returning for him into Maya of Birth and Death. The followers of Raam Bhagwaan would always talk about Raam Bhagwaan in their pravachans, It doesnt mean that they are insulting other gods. They respect every one but follow their choicest Bhagwaan. Same with Krishna Bhagwaan Disciples. When they do the Katha on Bhagwad or Gita, they will hardly refer to any other god other than Krishna. It is their Bhakti. Similarly the Akshardhaam monument represents the abode of Lord Swaminaryan. Like Krishna Bhagwan resides in Golok and Raam Bhagwaan resides in Vaikunth, Similarly it is Bhagwaan Swaminarayan who resides in Akshardhaam. But still big murtis of RadhaKrishna, Raam-sita etc are installed in the main monument. The whole world will be watching the DVD, it is not that they have insulted Radha Krishna Bhagwaan, its just that they want people to know about Lord Swaminarayan. There are not many people who know much about Swaminarayan, thats why they were just concentrating on him. There cannot be any misbehaviour towards any Avatars in BAPS. It is true that they eat the food cooked by Brahmin just because it is a Strict instruction of Lord Swaminarayan to his Sadhus. It is just that they are maintaining purity by not eating whenever and whatever. It is not that everyone cooks food with purity, Thats why Lord Swaminaryan said to eat the food cooked by Brahmins. They eat food cooked by people other than Brahmins but its a whole different process to cook food for Saints i.e., you have make sure abt the purity, you cannot use direct water when you cook for them and few more things like that. It is out of the Nishta or the conviction they say that they are following Swaminarayan religion. But truly it is a Proper Hindu Religion. Look at niyams, they are not new. Ashtang Brahmacharaya is mentioned in Daksha Smriti, Aarti, thaal, Puja and every thing is just like a Hindu. It is a Hindu religion. Even I have joined BAPS recently, I am basically from South. Its a beautiful Organisation with a Bhagwad Satpurush as its Guru and Swaminarayan Bhagwan as its Choicest god. Any more Questions, feel free to ask. Even I had these doubts, We willtry our best to answer Jai Swaminarayan <!-- / message -->

Jai Swaminarayan You Said: "Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner.. " Please can you explain, What kind of VACHAN DROH has BAPS done. In What way is it displeasing Maharaj ????? Please prove what you have said above. You said that your post regarding Agna and Upasana has been never answered?? Please refer me those posts, Will try and Answer them. Please do mention references of what you have just mentioned above abt BAPS. And also Why is their no scope for a BAPS satsangi to become Ekantik Bhakta. Please support your comments with proper explaination and references before asking others refernces. Jai Swaminarayan

Dont just talk with out any references. You say Lord Swaminarayan in not GOD, Prove it. You are no legend from history that we should accept your words. Jai Swaminarayan

Hello my friend, I read this post of yours and thought to give you some points about Swaminarayan: 1) Swaminarayan is not a separate religion, It belongs to Vedic Hindu religion. 2)Proper Swaminarayan followers who have attained a Staunch faith that, Lord Swaminarayan is the ParaBrahman and source of all incarnations. It is Lord Swaminarayan who has explained that there are 5 Entites: Jivas,Ishwaras,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman, They are never created, they exist since time immemorial(Anadi), except Maya. There are infinite Jivas and infinite Ishwaras. He said that Jivas and Ishwaras are all under Maya since existance. Only two entities remain above Maya i.e., Brahman and ParaBrahman, they have never been in contact with Maya. All Jivas, Ishwaras, Maya and Brahman are all dependent on ParaBrahman but ParaBrahman is all independent. That ParaBahman is Lord Swaminarayan who descended on this earth by his free will. He is not an incarnation of anyone, he himself is the source of incarnation. Realising oneness with Brahman we have to do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman, that is the Basic concept. So if we have the refuge of ParaBrahman purushottam narayan why need to pray to other gods. It is not that we disrespect them, we always bow down to every god and all incarnations but our faith and Pativrata Bhakti is towards Lord Swaminarayan. His abode is Akshardhaam which is above maya. Once a Jiva or Ishwara attaining Brahmic state reaches Akshardhaam, there is no returning for him into Maya of Birth and Death. The followers of Raam Bhagwaan would always talk about Raam Bhagwaan in their pravachans, It doesnt mean that they are insulting other gods. They respect every one but follow their choicest Bhagwaan. Same with Krishna Bhagwaan Disciples. When they do the Katha on Bhagwad or Gita, they will hardly refer to any other god other than Krishna. It is their Bhakti. Similarly the Akshardhaam monument represents the abode of Lord Swaminaryan. Like Krishna Bhagwan resides in Golok and Raam Bhagwaan resides in Vaikunth, Similarly it is Bhagwaan Swaminarayan who resides in Akshardhaam. But still big murtis of RadhaKrishna, Raam-sita etc are installed in the main monument. The whole world will be watching the DVD, it is not that they have insulted Radha Krishna Bhagwaan, its just that they want people to know about Lord Swaminarayan. There are not many people who know much about Swaminarayan, thats why they were just concentrating on him. There cannot be any misbehaviour towards any Avatars in BAPS. It is true that they eat the food cooked by Brahmin just because it is a Strict instruction of Lord Swaminarayan to his Sadhus. It is just that they are maintaining purity by not eating whenever and whatever. It is not that everyone cooks food with purity, Thats why Lord Swaminaryan said to eat the food cooked by Brahmins. They eat food cooked by people other than Brahmins but its a whole different process to cook food for Saints i.e., you have make sure abt the purity, you cannot use direct water when you cook for them and few more things like that. It is out of the Nishta or the conviction they say that they are following Swaminarayan religion. But truly it is a Proper Hindu Religion. Look at niyams, they are not new. Ashtang Brahmacharaya is mentioned in Daksha Smriti, Aarti, thaal, Puja and every thing is just like a Hindu. It is a Hindu religion. Even I have joined BAPS recently, I am basically from South. Its a beautiful Organisation with a Bhagwad Satpurush as its Guru and Swaminarayan Bhagwan as its Choicest god. Any more Questions, feel free to ask. Even I had these doubts, We willtry our best to answer Jai Swaminarayan

Continuing my previous post: You said: Purushottam Prakash, Prakran 32: "Sunder Mandir Karavyu.... ....Vadi Sant ne Aapi Agna re, Rehavu nahi Ahiya Aavya vina re, Varsovaras Ek <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Maas</st1:place> , Karvo aa Mandima Nivaas re." Maharaj then says to Gopalanand Swami also to go to Junagagh once every year and do samagam of Gunatitanand Swami. Please explain to me that How the above mentioned references are all wrong??? They show that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar. There are many prasangs where Maharaj has introduced Gunatitanand Swami as Akshardhaam in the Jeevan Charitra. If I give any of those refernces then you would say that BAPS has changed the scriptures. Thats why I have given the above references. Now when you talk about Shastriji Maharaj, the acharya present then was Laxmi Prasad Maharaj. Read about his life, He was a Rajasik person and not at all pure in his life. Thats why he had to be removed from the Gadi. Still Shastriji Maharaj asked for permission just to leave Vadtal. He had to leave vadtal as it came upon to his life. He didnt leave vadtal with heaps of gold or Money. He left without a single penny and with just 5 sadhus with him. How can anyone with out any resources built such a big Mandir in Bochasan, It was the Akshar Purushottam Gnan which was explained to the people and then they helped build the Mandir. The Pratishta of Murtis is done through Vedic Mantras, If Acharya comes to it its very good, If he doesn't come, Mahraj's siddhant doesn't go false. Even Acharya was given initiation by <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place>. We are ready to take diksha from Acharya but Maharaj and his Siddhant comes first. Acharyas do not exist since Anadi but Akshar Brahman does and If Akshar and Prushottam exist above Maya since Anadi then how can you say that Akshar Purushottam sidhhant is false. Now you said that in Shikshapatri Maharaj says that Murtis installed by Acharya should only be worshiped. But Mahraj has also mentioned the NIyams of Acharya in the Shikshapatri What about them?? Just because Laxmi prasad ji Maharaj didnt go to do Bocahsan Murti pratishta you said Shastriji Maharaj did something considered out of the fellowship. During Shastriji Mahraj's time, On one side it is Clear Akshar Purushottam Upasana Mandir (Bochasan) and on the other side is the Rajoguni Acharya Maharaj, Which side do you think Mahraj is on. If you still think whatever the Acharya does shouldnt be seen and just follow him Blindly then how do you expect to reach Akshardhaam. If Raghuvirji Maaharaj would have done anything like Laxmiprasad ji Maharaj then Saints would never have considered his Pratishta. In Vachanamrut Gad-I-38, Maharaj says that I do not have any Sneh or attachment towards my Sagasambandhi(his own relations). But if one has Bhakti and Seva Bhaav for Maharaj then he says that he Likes them. In vadtal-11 Maharaj says that if Bhagwan is not present on earth then one should take the Aashro of such SADHU or Bhagwan's Murti. Shastriji Mahraj was such a Brahmaswaroop Sadhu with Sampurn Tyag of Stree Purush. What can he do if no body had the sense to Understand Maharaj's principle. He did what Maharaj wanted to do i.e. to install Maharaj with Akshar. This understanding of Akshar purushottam came from Gunatitanand Swami himself. Bhagatji Maharaj had attained such a state of Gunatit from Gunatitanand Swami. When Maharaj says that every one should respect Acharya and accept the deities installed only him or he is present through the Acharya, It is just that no body leaves this Satsang and go into Paroksh Bhagwan. Thats why Maharaj said that. If Maharaj said he is present through Acharyas then What abt some of the Acharyas who have broken the niyams of Maharaj and acted against panch vartaman. He cant br present through them. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj, Acharaya Vihari Lal ji Maharaj and few other Acharyas were true Acharyas, Even they accepted Gunatitanand Swami as Mul Akshar, It was the Satsang Samaj that couldnt handle it. You Said: "What makes you think that only a Sadhu is a sant? A sant is he who possesses 32 qualities. Now this can be a Grahast or a Sanyasi. You state many foolish things" I never said only the Sadhu is an Ekantik Bhakta. Even Gruhast can be a Sant as you mentioned the examples of Janak raja and Vedvyas. It is very nice to hear that you have such samjan for Acharya Maharaj. Even I have read about Acharyas, I respect them too. But not even if they break Maharaj's Agnas. But Based on this statement you cannot say that Acharya is the Sant What Maharaj refered in Vachanamrut. Just think about the Satsang Samaj when Mahraj was present on the earth and look at it now. You mentioned a few <st1:City w:st="on">Santos</st1:City> names who are staunch in their niyams but why is it only a few <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place> today?? Why is anybody not able to take any action about people not following the niyam Dharma, What happened to the awareness?? I went to the NarNarayan Mandir in Amdavad when I went to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> last year. They still say NarNarayan dev ki Jai first and then Maharaj's Jai. What happenend to the Sarvopari Nishta in Maharaj?? As you said, you can find hundreds of saints who are still stanch like those of Bhuj but you cannot say that all of those are like the Sant, Maharaj refers in Vachanamrut. There is only one akshar and only one Satpurush and only One Pramukh Swami Mahraj. The Sant in the Vachanamrut Maharaj speaks abt is Akshar Brahman. The Description in Gad I-27, when you compare it to Loya 12, Vadtal-11, Madya-41 etc.. you can understand how their is a difference in Maharaj's presence in different tatvas as explained above. The Brahmic state Maharaj talks about in Vachanamrut can be attained through a Brahmaswaroop Sant or by Maharaj himself. Jaga Swami, Pragji Bhakta, Balmukund Swami etc had attained such state through the Samagam of Gunatitanand Swami and not through Acharaya. The saints you have spoken about can be observing every niyam of Maharaj, they might become nirvasnik through following those niyams but the Satpurush or Akshar or the Sant is Nirlep since Anadi. He doesnt have any vasana or dosh in him at all. That is why he is the Moksh nu Dwar. There is no way to enter Akshardham without attaing the Brahmic state. No where in the Sampraday Scriptures does Maharaj state that you becaome Ekantik through the samagam of Acharya, that you become Nirvasnik through Acharya, that you can attain the Uttam Nirvikalp sthiti and Sarvopari Swaroop nishtha through Acharya, He always mentions it to be the Sant or Sadhu or Bhakta. In Vadtal 5 Mahraj says that we should do the Mansi of Bhagwaan along with his Bhakta. So does he mean that to be the Acharya??. Maharaj spoke about Acharya in so many places, As you said in Purushottam Prakash, Desh Vibhag no Lekh, Vachanamrut etc.. Then at that time if Maharaj meant that the Acharya is the Bhakta or Sant (referring to Vachanamrut) then why did he also say about the Sant separately? Why didnt Nishkulanand Swami write any such thing about Acharya as he wrote about Sant? Why did Acharya Raghuvirji Mahraj and Viharilalji Mahraj mentioned Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar Murti, if they themselves were his Uttam Bhaktas or the Sant What Mahraj says in Vachanamrut?? Through Vachanamrut even you will have to accept that there is no one other like Akshar Brahman. If Acharya Mahraj were the Sant then what about the Akshar who doesnt even have any sansarg of Maya?? It shows that Gadis were established to look after the Satsang and the Mandirs. It is just for the people to have respect towards Acharya, Maharaj said their Mahima. You used the word "QUALIFY" to attain Brahm Bhaav. Their is no link between Acharya and Becoming Brahmarup. Even though Acharya was present, Many <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place> who used to do Vicharan in villages used to initiate villagers into Satsang Fellowship. Not every one was taken to Acharya. Even when Mahraj was present not every one was intiated into Satsang by Maharaj. If you are talking about the Sadhu Diksha then Pramukh Swami is the Ekantik, Akshar Brahman Sant as in Vachanamrut. Getting Diksha from him equvivalent to that of from Maharaj. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Santos</st1:City></st1:place> after diksha go to Vadtal out of respect for Maharaj and his prasadi mandirs. In BAPS it is Maharaj doing the Pratishta of Murtis through Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Acharya is no doubt to be respected but Maharaj is Bhagwaan himself and is pragat through his Ekantik Sant(I-27). OK as you say Raghuvirji Mahraj attained Brahmic state through Gopalanand Swami, it is clear that he achieved that state through some Saint and not by himself. So tell me who is such a sant through today's acharya have attained the Brahmic Sthiti ???. If you guys believe GOPALANAND SWAMI to be Mul Akshar then through Vachanamrut Akshar is the Uttam Bhakta of MAHARAJ then why is Gopalanand Swami not being installed along with Maharaj the same way as Laxminarayan and Narnarayan are being installed in the Mandirs today ???? YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN IN BAPS SATSANG SINCE CHILD HOOD AND ASKED FEW QUESTIONS AND LEFT BAPS. TODAY WE HAVE SO MANY IN BAPS WHO HAVE LEFT VADTAL SANSTHA AND CAME INTO BAPS. WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THOSE ??? Yes we do, If you would have done as Pramukh Swami Said you would have never left BAPS. You talk about the Authencity of BAPS Sadhus but what about your Authenticity. You are no Authentic personality or a Legend from scriptures to doubt the Authenticity of BAPS sadhus. It is open come and have look at their lives. Which Samput are you talking about their are 11 Samputs consisting of about 20-25 pravachans in each Samput of Pramukh Swaim ni Amrut Vani. Now I have the Vachanamrut from both sides. There is no difference, you can refer to what ever refernces that I have given from my Vachanamrut. We read the right books and get right understandings. You keep saying that BAPS alters books, DONT TALK IF YOU CANNOT PROVE IT. It is not the stamp of Acharya we require, it is the Satpurush we require to attain Moksha. Yes we do read Shikshapatri and not the suktiratnas, DO YOU READ SHIKSHAPATRI?? What about Acharyas niyams, even he is a Gruhast. OK, Even if I leave everything and come under acharaya, Tell me through which SANT, has todays acharya attained Brahmic State as you said about Raghuvirji Maharaj, who can guarnte my Moksha ??. Dont say that Maharaj has guarenteed the Moksha. Maharaj has guarenteed only for those who have attained Brahmic State, Who can take me to that stae there ?? Here I have a guarntee from Pramukh Swami Maharaj whom I believe to be Akshar himself because it is the direct parampara from Maharaj and Gunatitanand Swami. All the gurus in Parampara have Purest of pure NIshta, Upasana and Dharam. You can clearly see, our Upasya Bhagwaan is Maharaj himself, our central Shrine has Maharaj along with his Uttam bhakta, Our Mantra is Swaminarayan, We are striving to become Brahmaroop, We are following Maharaj's Aagna(Shikshapatri), Following his true concept(From Vachanamrut), Our Dhaam is Akshardhaam etc.. So what do you think BAPS is doing? Just because Acharya didnt install the Murtis, the upasana doesn't change, If he doesnt install the Murtis, Upasana cannot be given up, Maharaj's Siddhant cannot be falsified. I have already explained the Akshar Purushottam Upasana through Vachanamrut above. If they cant accept Maharaj's Siddhant then we cant give up doing Bhakti for Maharaj. Madhya-9 clearly states that, Having complete Nishta of Bhagwan if one has to leave the Satsang under certain circumstances then even though one is out side Satsang Maharaj says that at the end he would attain Akshardhaam. And One might be staying in the Satsang following the Shastras to the point but does not have the nishta of Bhagwatswarup then he would go to some devlok but not Akshardhaam. What do you have to say abt this Vachanamrut ?? Dont say that BAPS has edited this, Look for yourself in your Vachanamrut. So even if BAPS is declared as vimukh by VADTAL but still is SANMUKH by this Vachanamrut. Maharaj said his Nishta and not Acharyas Nishta. So Shastriji Mahraj had to come out of Vadtal under such circumstances, You cant say Aksharpurushottam (Akshar roop thai Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi) Upasana concept is false. If you do then prove it. If Acharya Maharaj doesnt install the idols then we cannot give up the nishta of Maharaj and Swami. That is the answer for your Question for which you have left BAPS as you said. The result of what a Sanstha is doing with the Dharmado is seen clearly by its work. The BAPS might have about 1million followers and Vadtal-Amdavad Sanstha might have more. But BAPS has more than 600 Mandirs (Not miniature mandirs but very beautifully stone carved) for a million followers BAPS has more than 9000 centres running in 45 countries, It is working for so many relief works and so many other things. And more over the Gandhinagar and Delhi Akshardhaam. All these are not the assets for BAPS but only the Guru through whom Mahraj is present is the asset of this Sanstha. I am jst explaining because you have raised such a question abt Dharmado. Read more on BAPSdotOrg or go see for your self. Show me wher e is BAPS wasting money from Haribhaktos. In Bhaktachintamani Nishkulanand Swami has stated about Acharya and more than Acharya he has stated about the Sant. If Acharya Mahraj is attaining the Brahmic state through samagam of a Sant then definitely he is not such a Sant. You mentioned a few saints names, But even nishkulanand Swami was a saint himself of Pratham Pankti (1st row) of Maharaj. He him self says in Chosath Padi: "Kahe Sant sevya sare kaaj, Em chhe Agamama,......." "Eva Sant tani Odkhan, kahu sahu Sambhlo, Pachi Saupi tene man pran, E vade tem vado. Jena Antarma avinash, vaas kari vasiya Tena Kaam krodh pamya nash, lobh ne moh gaya...." "Eve Sant jame jamya Shyam, Jamya Sarve Devata Jamya Sarve lok ...... Sahu thaya Trupta" "Van Sadhu no Vartaro re Aa pad sunta Odkha Se......." "Jenu Tan man maanyu tyage re Bhakti Dharme Bhave re, Jena Vachane vintya vairagya re, Antarma thi aave re, Shil Santosh ne vali Shanti re Antar maa thi aave re....." Even Nishkulanand Swami was a great Sadhu but not as great as he has describes about a true Sant who is capable of destroying Vasanas and doing Moksha. Show me a sant like this ?? Who is definitely something more than even Sadguru Nishkulanand Swami, in whom Bhagwan resides. The names you have mentioned might be as good as Nishkulanand Swami, who was Aishwarya sampan, they might be like Muktanand Swami, or Brahmanand Swami but still not as capable as the one mentioned in the above pad. i.e., Moksha nu Dwar(Satpurush). That is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Now you will ask what me say that then, It is not by mere words that you could understand Pramukh Swami Mahraj, you have to see it your self. How can you understand a Satpurush if you just keep seeing negative in him ?? You say, you have seen him driving in Mercedes and living with comforts and sitting on a throne. What were you doing in BAPS for past 20 years, Didnt you see him writing more than 500,000 letters, replying the Haribhaktos to help them out in their problems, Didn't you see him doing padhraminis at more than 200 houses (in just one day) of Aadivasi huts in radiant summers. He has visited more than 250000 houses to improve peoples' lives and made them addiction free and bought them on Bhakti Marg. Even at the age of 86 he has done vicharan in more than 30 villages and many cities in year 2006. This year (2007) he has alredy visited more than 15 villages and now visiting so many different countries. Get me someone this old and doing this much vicharan at this age of 86. You have never seen the thorns that are on his throne because he never lets anybody know his pains. Never in his life has said that "I have done this" or "I have achieved this" This is not easy for someone holding Guniess records and Keys to the cities etc. He has never considered all these but only behaved as a sevak of Haribhaktos and Uttam Bhakt of Maharaj. Pramukh Swami, His Sadhus and all BAPS Satsangis go for darshan at all Vadtal-Amdavad Gadi Mandirs, out of respect for Maharaj. Maharaj has done his Leela in these places. So, it is a Pilgrimage(teerth dhaam). You talk abt Senior saints of BAPS not answering your questions, This is just not possible. I have been in this BAPS Swaminarayan Satsang since past 3 years and I never had an ocassion where I asked a question and didnt get a reply. More over I am from south and could understand these things as they are crystal clear. You being a Gujarati and in Satsang since 25 yrs left BAPS then some thing is wrong with your understanding. You say I state foolish things but from your post you have made a fool of yourself. You said that Acharyas are another form of Maharaj, prove it, give reference. Cant just go by your words. You said he is above akshar muktas. There is only one entity above Muktas, Brahman, as Mahraj said: Jivas, Ishawaras are anant but there is only one Akshar and only One Parabrahman(read Khagol Bhugol, II-41 etc..). If you say Acharya is Above akshar muktas then he should be Akshar himself. Then if Raghuvirji Mahraj was above akshar muktas then why did he attain Brahmic State through Gopalanand Swami as you said and why did he mention Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar. I dont understand what kind of theory you are following, No doubt you had to leave BAPS. You mentioned the Shloka at the end, Even I know that Shloka. What do you wanna prove through it ??? That BAPS is out of Satsang, But my friend With Mahraj's Siddhant and his Niyams BAPS is not outside Satsang But BAPS IS THE SATSANG. It is Moksha that a Jiva requires not stamping of any Organisation. So, Anyone keen about Liberation come to Pramukh Swami Who is the BHAGWAT SANT according to Sreemad BHAGWAT and is the ParamEkantik Satpurush and Uttam Bhakt and Ekantik Dharak of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. (One who calls Pramukh Swami as Maharaj will be making a fool of himself) My respects to all the Acharyas, No offence to them. It was just arguments to support the true concepts. JAI SHREE SWAMINARAYAN

I will be replying in two or three posts, for some reason, its not posting the whole thing at a time. This post and the next post are connected... Just cant post it together. Jay Swaminarayan, Look, When I said about Gad-I-27,"God resides in every Indriya of a Sant" was the Vachanamrut and "not acharya" was my statement, Thats why I didnt quote my statement. You should have thought that with commen sense before out of excitement calling me foolish. Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj wrote in Kirtan Kaustubhmala His exact words in it are: "Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya vartman, Pote paline pachi palavya, Janne dai ghanu Gnan....." Here when he says Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami then it means Akshar Murtimaan and not a Brahmswarup Saint but Brahman himself. This book abt maharaj written by Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj was printed by Kothari Hathibhai Nanajibhai in 1912 AD at Mumbai by your Management. Please do refer it, If I am wrong pease state what is written in there. Now in Harililakalpataru, Achintyanand Brahmachari Who was not from BAPS does the Stuti of Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar: Here what it states "Yadromavivare leena Andanam kotayah Pruthak| Tadhaksharam Gunatitam Gunatitam Namamyaham||" In Brief it means: In whose every pore Infinite Brahmands stay different from each other, that Akshar who is Gunatit(above three Gunas), I bow down to that Gunatit(Gunatitanand Swami) . When Maharaj gave diksha to Gunatitanand Swami in Dabhan, that description in Harililakalpataru as follows: "Muljisharma Dikshaam Dadanasya prajayate| Bhuyonmetra Samanando Tato Dhamaksharam Sa Me|| Mukteyranantayha saakam Me Yatrakhandtayoshyate| Urdhvobhagarhitam Tanmulam Dhaam Chaksharam|| Harileelakalpataru: 7th Skand, 17th Adhyaya It means: Mulji Akshar who is my murtimaan Akshardhaam, which is dimensionless, Where I stay with my infinite Muktas, I am very happy to give him diksha today. If this sholka means something else then please do give me the real meaning. You say Nishkulanand Swami stated Gopalanand Swami as Akshar, Please do provide the reference???. If kariyani akshar ordi says that then: Look at the Junagadh Mandir -Sabha Gruh and Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam murtis (or say photo or painting).Now you cant say that this doesnt exist or BAPS went into the Mandirs and installed it. I have sited them my self and have the pictures as well. I dont know the process to upload the pics on this forum. All of them and a few other mandirs state clearly beneath the Photos as Mul Akshar Gunatitanand Swami. Now you said that installing Akshar beside Maharaj is "against the wishes of Lord". Can you please prove that this with some material said by Maharaj or any Paramhansas???. Maharaj in Vadtal 5 clearly states that "If you spend 5 rupees for god then you should spend 5 rupees for his Uttam Bhakta as well......" He also said-"Jetlu Raja nu rajya etluj Rani nu Raj..." It doesnt mean that Queen replaces the King. Gadhada-I-68 states:"Eight types of Murtis where god resides and the ninth is the Sant" Gunanatitanand Swami is such Sant and Uttam Bhakta. Akshar is Akshar since Anadi but the Akshar mukts have done the Bhakti of ParaBrahman and attained such State. So, Akshar is the Devotee since Anadi i.e., Time immemorial. Read Loya 12, Maharaj Clearly says that Uttam NIrvikalp Nishachay is attained only by reaching a state equvivalent to that of Aksharbrahman. It clearly means that Akshar's Bhakti and NIshachay is not comparable with any of the Jivas including Acharya Maharaj. Now Maharaj said in Shikshapatri that Laxmi with narayan is called Laxminarayan, Nar and Narayan is called Narnarayan etc..And in Shikshapatri Shlok 111, Maharaj clearly states that Radha, Laxmi etc.. are Bhagwan's Bhaktas who somtimes are next to him or sometimes reside in the body. Now at that time every one knew abt Laxminarayan, Narnarayan etc He was trying to hint something else. In shloka 203 Mahraj says that he has written this shikshapatri in brief and for more knowledge refer to the Sampraday Scriptures. The Most Authentic Scripture after Shikshapatri(Written by Maharaj) is Vachanamrut(Words Spoken by Maharaj). From Vachanamrut Gad-I-41, Maharaj clearly states that he doesnt reside in Prakrutipurush as much as he resides in Akshar. Prakrutipurush is the first Tatva for creation (Khagol Bhugol, Gad-I-41, Gad-II-31 etc..), It means it is only Purushottam Narayan above AksharBrahman and nobody else and also Akshar is above Maya with ParaBrahman since Anadi. Therefore Akshar is the Sarva Sreshta and Uttam Bhakta Of Maharaj. It means all the Muktas, Prakrutipurush, Pradhanpurush, Viratpurush,all Avatars and gods, and Jivas do not Understand the Swarup of Maharaj as much as Akshar does. There for to know the Paripurna Mahima and possess complete Swarup Nishta, Akshar or Mahraj himself is required (loya12). Thus from Shikshapatri when Maharaj says abt Knowing the Avatars along with their Uttambhaktas, He means to say to himself along with his Uttam Bhakta. And also in Vachanamrut Gad -III-38,Maharaj says that we should bow down to Avatars but Upasana should be done only of the Pragat Bhagwan and also in Loya-11 he says that we shouldnt do the Dhyan of Paroksh Avatars. Now in Shikshapatri he says to sing the glory of Radha Krishna but in Vachanamrut he stresses on not doing the Upasana of Paroksh Avatars. So, It is clear that Maharaj doesn't want us to do the Bhakti of Radha Krishna or Narnarayan but he wants us to his bhakti along with his Uttam Bhakta as people have done in past of Laxminarayan etc.. You say that why didnt Maharaj install AksharPruushottam himself?? Because it was very difficult for him to install his Murti by himself then how would you expect him to install his Uttam Bhakta. Muktanand Swami and abt 200 sanits didnt want Maharaj to install his Deity. Read the Jeevan Charitra, this prasang should be there because Muktanand Swami breaks his leg falling from horse while travelling to Vadtal to stop Mahraj from installing his Murti. You will again say that I am wrong and prove it. Then I would ask you, If no body had any problem with Maharaj installing his Murti then Why did Maharaj install his Murti in the Last Khand and not in the Madhya Khand?? This act of Maharaj (installing his own Murti) makes him different from all Avatars. No Avatar in the past had installed its own own Murti by themselves. And also Krishna Bhagwaan says no where that he should be installed along with Radha. It was Vallabhacharya who placed Radha with Krishna Bhagwaan. Many opposed him but today every one Understands it. Now, as shown that Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar and Akshar is Mahraj's Uttam Bhakta, Thats why BAPS has Akshar along with Purushottam. In BAPS, Upasana is of Just Maharaj and not of Akshar. AksharPrushottam Upasana is the short form of "Akshar roop thaiyne Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi"(Loya 12). Continued in next post.................

There are no women Sadhus in BAPS. All women stay in their Niyams as mentioned in Shikshapatri and do Satsang. If you are talking about the intiation into Satsang then it is done by senior Satsangis in women. Jai Swaminarayan

My previous post was to answer a post in which it was said that BAPS is Vimikh. BAPS didn't set up its own upasana, Read Loya12, Vadtal 5 where maharaj says the mahima of Uttam Bhakta and in Madhya 25 he says that only with the samagam of such sant our inner vasana can be destroyed. In vadtal 11 Maharaj says that If Bhagwan is not pragat on earth then one should either take the refuge of "SADHU" who has met god or if no such sadhu is present then take the refuge of the Murti. No where in Vachanamrut did maharaj say that Acharya is the door to Liberation. In Vachanamrut Gad I-1 Maharaj uses the phrase "Dharmakul na Asshrit Bhakt......" This Vachanamrut was stated on Samvat 1876 Maghshar Sud 4 and the Acharyas were given the Gadi on Samvat 1882 Karthik Sud 11. Acharyas were not even there during this vachanamrut. So here Dharmakul na aashrit means the son of Dharma and Bhakti i.e., Maharaj himself. Raghuvansh no Aashrit doesnt mean aashrit of every one in Raghuvansh, It is understandable that only Raam Bhagwaan. Similarly Dharmakul na Aashrit means the refuge of Maharaj. Look at all the avatars of Bhagwaan, You wont find mandirs of Lav and Kush whereas you will find many mandirs of Hanuman. Same with Krishna Bhagwan's Avatar. The Upasana of Akshar Purushottam is not new, It has always been in existance. Sadguru Balmukund Swami didnt belong to BAPS, he installed some 'pat ni murtis' (the painting version) of Akshar purushottam. Look at the Junagadh Mandir, the Sabha Gruh, the Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam paintings installed. Akhandanand Muni has written kirtans about maharaj being present in Gunatitanand Swami, He didnt bleong to BAPS either. Nishkulanand Swami has said "Sant te Svayam Hari..". If you read the Jeevan Charitra of Bhagwaan Swaminarayan, Maharaj has said the glory of Gunatitanand Swami so many times to the Paramhansas. Shastriji Maharaj's Guru Vignanand Swami, Adbhutananad Swami had confirmed abt this point that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar. Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj Clearly states in Kirtan Kaustubhmala that Gunatitanand Swami as"Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya Vartman...." So Aksharpurushottam Upasana is not a made up thing by BAPS. Shastriji Maharaj only wanted to continue Maharaj's work for which he came on to this earth. "Aksharroop thai Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi" Whats wrong with that. This point was uacceptable by Vadtal, They couldnt accept Gunatitanand Swami to be his Uttam Bhakt. If Brahman and ParaBrahman are the only entities above Maya then ofcourse Brahman is the Uttam Bhakt of ParaBrahman. There is no body in the nand santo to be called as Akshar Brahman as most of them knew that it was Gunatitanand Swami. If Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar and Maharaj is ParaBrahman then whats wrong if we install Gunatitanand Swami along with Maharaj. If RadhaKrishna, NaraNarayan, LaxmiNarayan can be installed then why not AksharPurushottam. We all believe Lord Swaminarayan to be our isht Bhagwan, Our dhaam is Akshardhaam, Our Mantra is "SWAMINARAYAN", We have to become Brahmanised - then why not do the Upasana of just our God, Lord Swaminarayan and try to become like his Uttam Bhakt Akshar. That is what is BAPS doing. It was Maharaj's sankalp to build a Mandir in Bochasan(Gives a word to Kashidas Botad), Gadhada on mountain(Jiva Khachar doesnt give the Land), Sarangpur(Does the Khaat Muhurat with Manki). If Shastriji Maharaj wanted to compete with Acharays then he would have built a mandir in front of Vadtal. But he didnt do such a thing because he didn't leave Vadtal for competing with anyone but only for the Siddhant. About the GuruParampara in BAPS, Gurus are not selected or voted. It is the Gunatit satpurush, He will remain on earth until Mahraj's Karya is done. The concept that Maharaj is ever present in satsang through the Sant (Gad I-27) is clear here. The Qualities of the guru reflect the presence of Bhagwan with in him. No body knew what was gonna happen after Yogiji Maharaj left, But when Pramukh Swami came as Guru, his vartan, his Sadhuta, his devotion made the HariBhaktos believe him to be Gunatit. Never in his life did Pramukh Swami take any credit of his hardwork, always pointed towards Maharaj. Because Maharaj is working through him, so many of them are getting strength to follow niyams. As you said to look at the Saints established By Maharaj himself, None of them are present today. Some of the saints might have good Sadhuta in vadtal but show me a Sant as described by Maharaj in Vachanamrut - Gadhada I-27 present today who has Maharaj residing in every Indriya and that maharaj walks, eats.. through him. Show me a Sadhu other than Pramukh Swami Maharaj referring to Vachanamrut Vadtal 11. Every Lakshan of Bahktachintamani first Prakran suits Pramukh Swami maharaj. "Eva Sant Sada shubh mati, Jakt dosh nahi jema rati, Maan abhimaan nahi lesh, Eva Sant ne naamu hu Shish......" If we want to become nirvasnik we have to find such a Satpurush. Acharya is to be respected as it is Maharaj's Family. If there would have been any other purush on this earth other than Pramukh Swami Maharaj, who could help me attain Atyantik Moksh then I would be his discple the next second. Here in BAPS through Pramukh Swami we get the Labh of Pragat Bhagwan. Even if one is able to talk to Maharaj, Can he make others Brahmroop??? But AksharBrahman can and that is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Maharaj has clearly stated in Vachanamrut that " Jevo hu Akshar Ma rahu chu evo Bija ma rehto nathi.." So BAPS Upasana is no different from Maharaj's Siddhant. Moksh nu Dwar is Satpurush and Pramukh Swami is not trying to compete with anyone in Building Mandirs. Jai Swaminarayan