Visnu

If you were once a guru and a notorious homosexual paedophile, not only will the GBC forgive you, but they will give you a SALARY, a nice apartment and sit you on a Vyasasana in Mayapur too! (You know who I'm talking about). BUT if you dare, God forbid, commit the heinous crime of saying that Srila Prabhupada is your diksa guru ("DIVYA-JNANA hrde prokasito" - remember that Mr. GBC? We sing it to Srila Prabhupada every morning) - get ready to be kicked out of His Divine Grace's temple and blacklisted as a "demon"! "Therefore, by the influence of the age of Kali, everywhere, politically, socially or religiously, everything is topsy-turvy, and therefore for the sane man it is all regrettable." (SB 1.16.22, purport)

Prabhupada only authorised the 11 to be ritviks (officiating priests) - see July 9th 1977 directive to all GBCs and TPs. It is the 11 who decided to make themselves into mahabhagavata diksa gurus - and the rest, as they say, is history

No they weren't, most devotees were booted out by these fake Iskcon gurus: "FACT: ISKCON gurus have opposed, oppressed and driven out many sincere godbrothers and godsisters." (Jayadvaita Swami 1996)

Srila Prabhupada is that personality! He is present through his books and instructions: "Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words." (SB Lectures, 71/08/18 ) "So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krsna or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence by message (or hearing) is the real touch." (SPL August 1967) "If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride of the disciple. (Cc Adi 1.35) "If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way."

No, it doesn't render ritvik null and void AT ALL. Please read carefully what Srila Prabhupada said: "As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master." (S.B 4.28.47, purport) So clearly you serve the physically departed guru by following his instructions. Srila Prabhupada also makes this clear in the following conversation: Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise... Srila Prabhupada: Well the questions are answ...answers are there in my books. (Morning Walk, 13/5/73) How are any of Srila Prabhupada's disciples receiving instructions today, if not from his books? Most never even met Srila Prabhupada while he was on the planet, yet they were still following his instructions. "Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life." (SPL 19 January 1967)

Well, most devotees DID have a problem with that. Thousands were driven OUT of the movement for questioning the "self-effulgence" of these so-called Zonal Acaryas: "FACT: ISKCON gurus have opposed, oppressed and driven out many sincere godbrothers and godsisters." (Jayadvaita Swami 1996) People like Kirtanananda and Bhagavan weren't authorised to be gurus in the first place. Srila Prabhupada only appointed them as ritviks - see the July 9th 1977 directive to all GBCs and Temple Presidents. Hence: "...sometimes a spiritual master is not properly authorised to initiate and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and a large number of disciples." (Nectar of Devotion) Whereas: "A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord." (Bg. 4.42, purport) "Self effulgence", by its very definition, means it does not have to be compared to anything.

Dear Ksbh prabhu PAMHO. AGTSP. I accept your apology, and similarly humbly offer you my apology for any offences caused. With regards your question, Srila Prabhupada states: "Sometimes doubts arise in the minds of neophytes about whether or not the spiritual master is liberated, and sometimes neophytes are doubtful about the bodily affairs of the spiritual master. The point of liberation, however, is not to see the bodily symptoms of the spiritual master. One has to see the spiritual symptoms of the spiritual master." (SB 3.33.10, purport) So the question arises: is the spiritual master's body material or spiritual? Srila Prabhupada clearly states it is spiritual: "after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20) I never stated that a spiritual master should never be "overcome" with disease, but rather what Srila Prabhupada states: "The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20) Indeed, Srila Prabhupada states that a spiritual master has a "mortal" body: "thus when the mortal body of the spiritual master expires, his disciples should cry exactly as the queen cries when the king leaves his body." (S.B 4.28.47, purport) So then the question arises, WHY does the spiritual master take on a "mortal" body? Srila Prabhupada explains this is because in our conditioned state we cannot rely purely on receiving instructions from the Supersoul, therefore we need to approach the guru who has taken "physical" form: "Because Krsna is situated in everyone's heart. Actually, he is the spiritual master, Caitya-Guru. So in order to help us, he comes out as physical spiritual master." (SP Lecture, 28/5/74, Rome) HOWEVER, this does not mean that the guru can ONLY be served by serving his physical body. As we know, 95% of Srila Prabhupada's disciples never served him physically, having never even met him while he was on the planet. Therefore Srila Prabhupada says: "As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master." (S.B 4.28.47, purport) So while the spiritual master may exhibit, to our material vision, old age, disease etc., he is never affected by them; rather, such symptoms are there to enable disciples to serve his body whilst he is physically present. However, it should be understood that such a "physical body" is always liberated from the material energy: "Although working for the liberation of conditioned souls, the messenger of the Supreme Lord remains untouched by the material energy." (Cc Madhya 22.14-15) "A pure devotee of the Lord does not live on any planet of the material sky, nor does he feel any contact with material elements. His so-called material body does not exist, being surcharged with the spiritual current of the Lord's identical interest, and thus he is permanently freed from all contaminations of the sum total of the mahat-tattva." (SB 1.13.56) "The Personality of Godhead and His liberated devotees like Narada appear in the material world by the same process. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gita, the birth and activities of the Lord are all transcendental. Therefore, according to authorized opinion, the birth of Narada as the son of Brahma is also a transcendental pastime. His appearance and disappearance are practically on the same level as that of the Lord. The Lord and His devotees are therefore simultaneously one and different as spiritual entities. They belong to the same category of transcendence." (SB 1.6.30<o>) </o> "A Spiritual Master is always liberated. In any condition of His life He should not be mistaken as ordinary human being." (SP Letter, 21 June 1970)

"Similar to what Kulapavana prabhu said, it doesnt matter how many quotes you give about how a pure devotee can not fall the fact is you can never know who is completely pure or nearly pure. Only a pure devotee can know another pure devotee" This is not supported by Srila Prabhupada. A pure devotee is manifest to the whole world: "Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism...Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master." (NOI, Text 5, purport) "A Vaisnava acarya is self effulgent" (Cc Madhya 1.220) "The bona fide spiritual master who accepts disciples from all over the world is also worshiped all over the world because of his qualities. [...] the people of the world worship him just as they worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (Cc Madhya 24.330, purport) Such an acarya is, of course, Srila Prabhupada himself.

Please note that this verse refers to a CONDITIONED soul who is NOT COMPLETE in Krsna consciousness, who is subject to the MATERIAL ENERGY, and who is NOT STRONG ENOUGH in Krsna consciousness: "No one should deride a devotee for some accidental falldown from the ideal path, for, as is explained in the next verse, such occasional falldowns will be stopped in due course, as soon as a devotee is completely situated in Krsna consciousness[...]this verse only refers to an accident due to the strong power of material connections. Devotional service is more or less a declaration of war against the illusory energy. As long as one is not strong enough to fight the illusory energy, there may be accidental falldowns. But when one is strong enough, he is no longer subjected to such falldowns, as previously explained." (Bg 9:30 purport) It does NOT refer to a bona fide parampara diksa guru who, as demonstrated previously, can NEVER fall at any time.

You did not seem to read His Divine Grace's statement very closely: "A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord." - Bhagavad Gita 4:42 A BONA FIDE spiritual master in the DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION will NEVER fall. Other devotees may fall - in some cases, it is a pastime for our instruction. But don't EVER commit the grave mistake of thinking that a bona fide parampara diksa guru who is empowered by the Supreme Lord to deliver conditioned souls can ever fall.

Dear ksbh prabhu If you recall, it was YOU who stated (and I quote): "What a load of nonsense. Typical ritvik crap." I simply REPRODUCED YOUR four-letter word above, which was deemed inappropriate language by the moderator, hence he changed it to **** Your understanding of a spiritual master's body being material is unfortunate, for Srila Prabhupada states: "The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him. According to the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20)

Er, Bhismadeva's 'violent end' was a pastime: "Bhishmadeva was endowed with the power of leaving his material body at will, and his lying down on the bed of arrows was his own choice." (SB 1.9.1, purport) "Bhismadeva attained all these transcendental conditions prior to his leaving the material body because of presence of the Lord (...) Thus He provided all facilities to fulfill the transcendental desires of His great devotee Sri Bhismadeva, who began to pray as follows." (SB 1.9.31, purport) This is somewhat different from a headlong car crash.

"The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him. According to the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (SB 10.4.20, purport) Yes, you should really stop talking **** Mr ksbh.