Bhakta Harry

When, where, & how did Prabhupada order "his zonal secretaries" to become "gurus"?

When I was visiting the ISKCON temple, Burkit Road, Chin High, (Chennai formally Mad rasa) in the early 90's. I returned from book distribution one evening and the pujari (French, forget his name) showed me a business card saying, "Look at this we had a special visitor to the temple today. " I looked at the card and it read Name: MAHAVISHNU Occupation: AVATAR etc.

I think that you forgot this “This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”(Letter to Madhudvisa, 4/8/75)

"They misunderstand me. Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that "Prabhupada said." (Letter, Omkara, 75-09-02)

Furthermore Gauri dasa wasn't in the Vrndavana Gurukula where the alleged offences took place until about 1994! Get this, he was alleged to have been beating the kids from about 1994 - 2002. He doesn't deny these allegations but instead tells us Ok, but why was he still beating the hell out of them until the year 2002? What makes this situation so farsical is that he is being presented to the Hindus & the UK government as the spiritual head of the proposed school. Is this typical ISKCON or what? Maybe they will make him a guru now also? The Hindus are just finding out about his past behaviour and are justifiably concerned.

I agree with some of your points. The 'authorized' ritvik is a priest who performs the ceremony on behalf of the initiator. Srila Prabhupada left us specific instructions to continue with this system. May I remind you that ISKCON was founded to implement Srila Prabhupada's instructions, not what you think or believe. In other words unless you can substanciate what you think or believe with quotes from Srila Prabhupada. Then I'm sorry to say that these beliefs & thoughts of yours have little relevance to the discussion.

Hell, babe, you seem to me, to be very good at doing the very thing you accuse others of doing.

Srila Prabhupada's word is the proof. Do you have a problem with that?

Srila Prabhupada says that diksa/initiation is a process. This begins with the reception of transcendental knowledge.

Please enlighten us great sage! Explain why His Holiness is surrounded by beautiful young girls and is obviously enjoying in their company. Everywhere he goes he has the same following, is it not? Please note that i am not saying this out of envy but simply making a point.

Can you prove otherwise? Where is the proof that Srila Prabhupada authorized H.H Gour Govinda Swami to be initiating guru? It defies his signed instructions on this matter. This may or may not be true. Seems a pathetic line of argumentation to me:pray:

Without specific authorization from Srila Prabhupada no one should be initiating within ISKCON. As previously posted .... "One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana." (S.B. 4.8.54, purport) "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru." (SP Bg. Lecture, 28/10/75) He may have created millions of pure devotees - but he never gave authorization to any, to be diksa/initiating gurus.

Good point, however not all ritvik groups do this. IRM for example. This is your opinion and i respect your right to hold that view. However we are supposed to be following the directions of Srila Prabhupada and since he has not informed us of any devotee to wait for, we are not waiting! Again this is your speculations. Yes, some so-called ritvik followers are not much different than the GBC in that they fall victim to their own speculations, just like you do actually! Yes, but if someone is doing the wrong thing, no mater how nicely he perform that service, it is still bogus. More of your own peculiar brand of what-ever. As mentioned previously ISKCON was founded to follow the opinion of Srila Prabhupada and that is how it should continue.

As I've said before babe, you really want to lo:eek: ok in the mirror someday. Cos you are doing the same thing, you accuse others of doing.

All your verbosity proves nothing. My point remains: that this so-called "nice devotee" was not authorized by Srila Prabhupada to be an initiating guru. It is possible to preach without disobeying the directions of Srila Prabhupada, that is the preaching process followed by genuine nice devotees.<!--EndFragment-->