AncientMariner

Just my opinion but being that according to Srimad Bhagavatam we are predominated living entities you are probably not going crazy. I don't know much about Kali Ma but it could be the supersoul is causing you to undergo some sort of spiritual awakening. My personal education is in Gaudiya Vaisnavism and the Golden Avatar Caitanya Mahaprabhu so for me I like to chant Hare krsna and read Srimad Bhagavatam. My understanding it that Kali is the wife of Lord Siva and Lord Siva is the topmost Vaisnava so Siva tries to direct people into worshiping Visnu.

I have heard about some of this on some of the radio shows I listen to. Who knows for sure what is reality of some of this stuff, one thing is for certain for me that this universe is a strange and mysterious place. At the top you can never really tell for sure what is going on because they put out so much disinformation but on the same hand it does seem possible that they have technologies that are probably completely mind blowing. I find this stuff interesting because in the Vedic literature there are always stories about demonic Kings and so forth so for me it is like watching in real life the unfolding of a Vedic story.

Sorry, didn't mean it as sarcasism as you say just an honest and spontaneous reaction to such an extraordinary concept being put into human language or even attempted to be put into human language. You put it into human language quite eloquently with your usual unique style so I apologize if I came across disrespectfully. Peace.

Fascinating information. I appreciate this post as I have spent a long time studying Krsna Consciousness, spirituality, and religion. My personal belief is that in the 60's a lot of the cultural movements were infiltrated or even created by the dark brotherhoods who get a kick out of subverting cultures and destinations of civilizations for their own profit. So whatever was pure and sincere about the hippies, beatnicks etc. was ultimately subverted into the ridiculous. That combined with the fact that esoteric knowledge is not meant for the insincere and is not meant as an undisciplined cultural fad. Esoteric knowledge used in those instances becomes a disaster. But the whole concept of the wandering beatnick shaman gypsy is good in my opinion but only the sincere and disciplined is going to stand the test of time and the rest will just be a disturbance to civilization.

I am no expert on this subject although I have seen this question debated from virtually every perspective on Krsna Conscious forums throughout the years. My view is that the universe is a miraculous and magical place but we are born into a matrix of fear, obligations etc. that makes us forget this but when you have that childlike wonder in you and you try to abandon fear the universe starts to work its magic in your favor. So just try to break beyond the matrix of fear and let the magic of the universe work for you and you will find all the right people you are supposed to meet. You will find the right books you are supposed to read and so and so forth. The adventure begins...

When does Krsna pull the plug on the matrix? I have read Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and CC but I can't remember the exact time lines.

My personal viewpoint is that the affairs of the World are planned way in advance by a network of fraternal orders with a specific endgame in mind. Modern humans were genetically engineered by the Nephilium when the Nephilium were expelled from the heavenly planets because they didn't obey the prime directive of non-interference with the lesser evolutions of the universe. When the Nephilium were stuck on Earth they still had advanced knowledge of science, genetics etc. but they had noone to do the work to rebuild the technology they need to break into higher levels of outer space. So on Atlantis they genetically engineered one race of humans who ultimately rejected being servants and they broke away and became what is known as Lemurians. The Nephilium genetically engineered another race of Adams and Eves and told them to go forth and multiply etc. The Lemurians eventually came and tried to tell this second set of Adams and Eves they were being used and the Nephilium got mad and a nuclear war occurred between the Nephilium of Atlantis and the Lemurians. Now in modern times humans have reorganized into countries etc. but the governments are run by fraternal brotherhoods that still have bloodlines that go back to the Nephilium and they are guiding and directing humanity towards rebuilding deep space technology so the Nephilium can escape from Earth because they hate it here.

I guess reality comes down to perception. I think it was William Blake said something to the effect when the doors of perception are cleansed the universe appears as it is, infinite. I personally also have a theory that there are both angelic and demonic entities that exist on different frequencies of light than the human eye.

Your postulation sounds reasonable to me but on the other hand if I think about it too much I might go insane. Right now I am busy trying to figure out if modern humans were genetically engineered as the Adams and Eves by the Nephilium with the purpose of creating the perfect slave to eventually create the necessary technology for the Nephilium to return to deep space after their fall from the heavens.

This is a very good question that I can relate to. I can remember when I was in college and I started off as a Biology major but in my spare time I was also reading all sorts of quantum physics books trying to figure out the answers to the universe. It almost drove me crazy trying to figure all that stuff out and what it means so that is when I abandoned science and started reading religion and philosophy because I was becoming really depressed. Now I have pretty much forgotten all the science I studied but I would recommend a path of moderation. If you are a science student there is no need to give that up just try to use it to serve God and don't take it too seriously. There is no easy answer to the question however because it does seem that jnana is not fully satisfying. It sounds like you have a pretty good perspective though. Intuition is definetly important but if you are around really scientifically jnana oriented type people it is sometimes best to guard your intuition from them because they me be prone to dismissing it as irrational sentiment or something like that. It can be like walking through a mine field trying to figure all this stuff out at times.

Good point. It almost seems like some of the responses you are getting on this thread the people are having some sort of negative emotional response to the word indifferent. I think the points you have brought up in this thread are really interesting and this has been one of the more interesting discussions I have seen in awhile. Of course anything having to do with the avadhutas I find to be especially interesting and the avadhutas seem to be the embodiment of becoming indifferent to the rituals of the Vedas.

I don't know, but the purport says there are good examples in the lives of the great devotees of the Lord who became indifferent to the rituals of the Vedas simply by devotional service to the Lord. I love the stories of those kinds of devotees because so many Vedic scholars endlessly engage in the same old endless debates about the Vedas over and over but these fortunate avadhuta souls seem to be completely beyond that mentality and free from the bickering. Reading about these great souls is truly a pleasure and it is also funny how they trick even their own uptight relatives. Jada Bharata is the greatest story in the Vedas along with Lord Rsabadheva in my opinion.

I was attempting to summarize the story of Jada Bharata and how despite all the attempts of his family members to transform him into the perfect vedic expert and brahmana he artfully dodged them and was continuously executing devotional service by thinking of Krsna. I do not know if he was chanting Hare Krishna mantra or not so I apologize if you think I was advocating some sort of Hare Krishna sectarianism that offends you as that was not my intent. I was merely summarizing the story to the best of my memory and was not trying to provide a hyper-technical, intellectually obese explanation of the story. I did just read in one of the purports of the Jada Bharata story and it mentions Srila Madhavendra Puri who said "O regulative principles of karma-kanda, please excuse me. I cannot follow all these regulative principles, for I am fully engaged in devotional service." He expressed his desire to sit somewhere beneath a tree and continue chanting Hare Krsna, maha-mantra so maybe when I said Jada Bharata was only interested in chanting Hare Krsna I was thinking of this fellow. But I also did say in post that Jada Bharata was interested in thinking of Krsna so I don't know what is the difference between that and chanting but apparently it triggers some sort of sectarian defense mechanism in you and I apologize for that. Srimad Bhagavatam says "Within he was always thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord and chanting the Lord's glories, which save one from the bondage of fruitive action. In this way he saved himself from the onslaught of nondevotee association" SB Canto 5 ch. 9 text 3. So apparently he was interested in some sort of chanting but I do not know if it was Hare Krishna mantra or not but again I apologize if again if I offended you on a sectarian level or if you think I was misrepresenting the story of Jada Bharata as I personally have no sectarian affiliation myself, I just read Prabhupada's books from time to time. You may disagree with Prabhupada's purports but Prabhupada mentions these concepts quite often. He says "When Maharaja Bharata took birth as a brahmana, he was not very intereseted in the duties of a brahmana, but within remained a pure Vaisnava, always thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord. As advised in Bhagavad Gita: man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru. This is the only process by which one can be saved from the danger of repeated birth and death." And in regards to Jada Bharata Prabhupada says "As Jada Bharata, Bharata Maharaja was always engaged in devotional service within his mind. Since he had executed the regulative principles continously for three lives, he was not interested in continuing to execute them, although his brahmana father wanted him to do so." So unless you feel I have misrepresented Prabhupada's interpretation of the story of Jada Bharata then your real issues are with things Prabhupada said and not an issue with me as I was only reciting a summary of the story as I remembered it from Prabhupada's books. From my reading of the story there does seem to be ample evidence that Jada Bharata did become indifferent to the rituals of the Vedas so I think the story is worthy of mentioning in this thread but who knows for sure.

I think I can see your point and it is well taken but I am still stuck in that Vedic quandry where I just cannot seem to harmonize the contradictions of the Vedas. Sometimes it says there are no hard fast rules to chanting then other times it says you are going to hell if you don't chant perfectly right. Even despite constantly struggling with these contradictions for years upon years I still always seem to retain some level of fascination with the Vedas. I go back to science and psychology to try to explain what the hell is going on with life and sometimes find some interesting theories etc. but I still find myself of thinking about the Vedas and trying to factor that knowledge into the equation somehow.

Nice quote theist. That reminds me of Jada Bharata whose father wanted to train him to become perfect brahmana and an expert in the Vedas but he was only interested in chanting Hare Krishna and thinking of Krishna so he acted like a deaf, dumb, madman so his father would stop trying to train him to become perfect brahmana and expert in the Vedas.