REASWARAN

I would like to know where exactly I have made this statement. According to me this is something which is an interpretation that you have given to my posts. Secondly whenever a view is expressed my me, it seems to be taken as an attack on you or your beliefs. This is what I meant earlier too, that rather than an effort to broaden one's perspectives my opening the mind to other vistas, you seem to promptly condemn any view which differs from your own and attempt to refute it with reams of cut ans paste material but hardly any reasoned views of your own.

I am afraid I cannot agree with you. The tradition of the Hinduisim has never been autocratic and we have all been encouraged to think. I studied under a realised teacher and there was never one of us who would accept teachings at face value. we always did our own thinking and arrived at our own conclusions which is the only way at least for me. Hence you see the scriptures only point the way- you have to walk it yourself. There is you will agree a difference in knowing the way from your house to the temple and in actually reaching the temple. Which is perhaps why I would prefer cogent original arguements on a subject rather than pure cut and paste from the scriptures. The point I made stands valid, that it is the social situation which influences most of our beliefs, which is where our ethical concepts are derived from.

The problem with those who have extended consciousness (humans) is that we need to try to justify all matters. let us take purely the animal world where presumably the ego has no place in daily living. I have yet to hear of homosexuality in the animal world- a homo dog or a homo pig ? Perhaps homosexuality is a product of the Kalyuga.

You are evidently no student of history. There are a few -very few absolute rights and wrongs and these are also to a very large extent by social mores. For the rest it is almost always the persons who have the most influence in a particular place and time who decide what is right and what is wrong:- Let me give you an example- India is largely a very traditional society where (forget the larger cities) girls are expected to keep male company to a minimum and the expectation that the girl is a virgin when she is married is very high. This is true almost all over India. However, there is a pocket in Central India where there is a concept of a Ghotul. This is a place where teenage boys and girls mix freely once they reach the age of puberty and freely have sex with the full consent of thier parents and elders. In fact once they cross puberty they spend all their nights in the Ghotul, and step back into household onl when they enter into marriage. I may mention that the only condition in a ghotul is that no girl or boy should have the same partner too often, and is this is seen happening then the couple may have to leave the ghotul and get married. The purpose of this story is to bring into focus that absolute rights and wrongs are a rarity and most rights and wrongs are brought into existence through social mores.

Most interesting theory.

It is the Atman which does not die- but the body definitely does - for every beginning has an end and what is born must die, -hence the supreme is referred to in the BG -No Jayate mritaye kadachit ..etc If we are all self realised here already and agree that no one dies - it's just great.

The sexual act itself or the pleasure one gets from the act is not an obstacle to spiritual growth. These desires are human and as long as you are a human, you will not be able to get rid of these desires. However, the desire itself is not an obstacle, it is the craving, the longing for the desire, the mind's tendency to relive the sexual experience which creates further vasanas. And this is to be curbed. The solution is regular meditation - and practicing what the Buddhist's call "living in the present". The practice of concentration on the present moment is a highly spiritual practice and enables one to be free from the memories of the past and aspirations of the future. Once your mind is in this state, it is fit for concentration on the Supreme. You will find that no thoughts of sex will intervene. This does not mean you give up sex, just that it has its place in your life, but is like say having a cup of coffee- nice when you have it- but does not bother you when you dont.

No disageement with this statement- the unmanifest does manifest occassionaly but the distinction should be clear - the manifest is finite and for specific purposes only- rg Krishna, Rama etc.

No it is not Krishna who is saying this- the Supreme unmanifested formless is saying it- Krishna is only the human medium through which the supreme is acting- If you remember my earlier posts wherein I had mentioned that the Purusha is inactive and when in contact with Prakriti can acts come into being. I believe you are confusing Krishna to be the Supreme himslef instead of an Avataar- do not forget Krishna (the human form) dies of an arrow in his leg at the end of the Mahabharat. This is consistent with a human manifestation only. Sorry my two earlier posts came out as Guest- I had forgotten to log in- the cookie does not seem to be doing its job too well.

When krishna says only those who worship him will achieve salvation, it is the supreme being (yes the formless impersonal which you get so worked up about) and not Krishna the human manifestation. I thought this would be obvious even to a lay reader of the Geeta - but no even the administrator has jumped in to prove me right when I stated that all u guys spend most of yr time running others down.

Ok so the universe was created by the big bang, but who created the big bang ?

Strong words ! There is no reason whatsoever for such a dogmatic statement. I think you forget that the purpose of all idols, icons, etc is a very simple one- bring in front of you into focus an object on which you can concentrate as a representation of the lord. Ultimately you must move from the concrete to the abstract, from the Lord with form to the formless , otherwise there would be no progress. (My friends from ISKCON will violently disagree with this ! to them the formless is like a red rag to a bull !)

Well said my friend ! You have just quoted from the Upanishads and for that alone I salute you. People who refuse to believe in any other than a personal God are slaves to their senses. As I have stated in an earlier post it is only the human who can have the massive arrogance to believe that if there is a God it- he has to be in the same mould as a human. I have tried several times to explain that the very diffused nature of the supreme makes it impossible for him to be restricted by form or substance or time for that matter, for how can he be restricted by his own creations ?

A most common misconception- Exception prove the rule WRONG- as any student of logic would tell us.

Welcome to the club. You have asked the question which every spiritually inclined human has tried to answer since the beginning of time. Can we have any answers ? I will try to explain based on my experience- it goes without saying that not all members who post on this board will agree with my views. You will in all probability get a plethora of views which will leave you confused. But nevertheless a beginning would have been made. The first step is to make the mind less agitated. you'll get a lot of posts stating that the best way is to chant krishna's name. That indeed is one way and you will have to evaluate for yourself based on your own nature. But according to me all the chanting of the Lord's name may not do any good if your mind is on your meeting with your girl in the evening. Hence the first step is to slow down the mind. I would suggest either learn to concentrate on your breath or on any mantra with the Lord's name- Hare Krishna Hare Krishna , krishna krishna hare hare - is one mantra you can adopt or even the prayer of St Francis of Azizzi or any other prayer for that matter. Concentrate on the words , try to slow down the speed with which you are mentally, repeat mentally chanting the mantra- You will find your mind wandering off a hundred times- do not worry - that is the nature of the mind. With enough practice you will find that you will have moments when you will feel calm and focussed before the mind starts jumping. When this happens you have made progress. The next step is to enlengthen these periods of calmness - When this is acheived - shift your focus on the the Lord. Easier said than done- however-best of luck