madhav

the following: - he worships krishna primarily. - he abstains from meat, alcohol/drugs, illecit sex and gambling. that is minimum. one who wears three kanthi in the neck is, is supposed to be, an initiated disciple of a guru in a bonafide vaishnav sampradaya. his sadhana is more serious than a householder who wears one kanthi.

>>Prabhupada: It is very good. It is very good. Guru Nanak, he chanted the name, holy name of Rama, the holy name of Krsna, Govinda. So if we follow Guru Nanak, we are fortunate. Anyone who presents a science of God, it doesn't matter whether he is this man or that man; he is our guru. Yes? << so here sri prbhupada's hindu mind is revealed. hindus always have said sikhism is a part of hinduism. only a few sikhs who have become pawns of pakistan are doing separatist movement and say sikhism is not hinduism. my study of sikhism makes me believe that sikhism is kshatriya dharma mixed with vaishya dharma. while sikhs have fought fiercenly with the invader muslims many times, HK's have difficulty even saying that islam is a barbari religion. and here sri prabhupada says guru nanak is also HK's guru. i really wish and pray that at this time and till islam terrorism exists, all the HK's become sikhs or simply follow guru nanak. sikhs need to keep kirpan (dagger). a modern equivalent is ak-47. their concept of god is formless. their dharma authority is gurugrantha saheb ( the book) only, and not any sadhus or any other shastras or other non sikh gurus. they do not worship moortis. however, they do keep pictures of sikh gurus. they do not do any vedic karma kanda. i am not suggesting Hk's do these things.

those who want to cool hindus down and what them to go to sleep (politicaly) as they did for a few centuries, say to the hindus that all religions are same. some so called "hindus" also say it out of ignorance. however, when an HK says all religion sare same, then i see him as a big hypocrate because: - HK is taught to do krishna bhakti or chaitanya bhakti. - their temples have krishna or chaitanya only. - they do not read all the vedic literature, not even all vaishnav literature, but only gaudiya vaishanav literature. - they even have difficulty respecting the hindus who worship devas and devis. this is really strange. they know that devas and devis worship krishna. they also want to be dasa of a dasa of a dasa.. and thus as humble as the grass. so, then what is wrong in worshipping deva/devi who are dasa/dasi of krishna? of course it is less smart to worship them as krishna has said, but still it is krishna worship although indirectly. that should not makk the hindus a subject for hate or rejection and should not give superior complexity to HK's; but it has, unfortunately. below are some links with articels. some of them cleary show that all religions are not same. even all paths in sanatana dharma are not same, but they can co-exist, as they have done for milleniums. http://www.mightofchrist.com/MOC-own-articles/all_religions_are_not_the_same.htm http://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/awaken_bharata/index.htm http://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/awaken_bharata/the_danger_of_hindus/page1.htm http://www.comparativereligion.com/conclusion.html so the first need is to give up the idea that all religions are same. if an HK says they are same, then why the HK accepted K C? hippism was just as good as K C per his argument. bottom line: all religions are not same. actually some religions are so incompatible with each other that if you put them together, there will be killings and explosions. hydrogen and oxygen cannot co-exist without an explosion and loss of their own identity in the name of water. e.g. xianity is no compatible with islam. the conequence is 9/11.

>>Srila Prabhupada has instructed tens of thousands of people through his books, without them ever coming into physical contact with him. Take him as your personal guide and spiritual master. You will certainly be blessed by him and advance very quickly in devotional service. Pure devotees such as Prabhupada are situated beyond the limitations of time and space. They exist on the transcendental plane of existence and can act at any time or place for the benefit of the sincere devotees<< jn das prabhu, i respect you for the above lines. here we agree in full.

>>so this issue did make devotees - more devotees than all the preaching effort by iskcon. << in my view, rath yatra or the organizers of rath yatra did not "make" or "create" devotees but gave them voice, oppertunity to chant for political reason. 85 % of india's polupation is already rama devotee. this is how it is since the time or rama. because the muslims and the xians kicked the hindus in their own land for several centuries, the hindus almost gave up playing any part in rajkaaran. now, all the past suffering caused to them by the invaders has caused them to rise and react, and react with unresistible might. this phenomena is wrongly labled by the invader aggressors (and anti hindu media) as "hindu fanatism" but the term is an oximoron. hindu revolition is taking place internally within hindus and externally also. yes, chanting 'rama' benefits, even when chanted in ignorance. ajaamil said,"oh narayan" at the time of his death and vishnudootas took him to vaikuntha, even when he was calling his son narayan, says bhagavtam. now you can see who speaks above the authority of srimad bhagavatam.

>>Quote "And Kalki (the future avatar) will not be Vishnu either. He will be qualitatively Vishnu, ...." Would you say the same could be said of Krishna Avatar? Am asking as Kalki Avatar is also called Sampoorna Avatar. << Srimad Bhagavatam 12.2.16-17 predicts kalki as a vishnu's avatatar with satva guna. does some one have the exact verse and translation handy? krishna is vishnu tatva, and krishna is poorna- purushottama. kalki is also vishnutatva but not poorna-purushottama. this discussion however, have no priority, inmy view, considering the current terrorism problem the world has.

>>This knowledge is hinted at in Christianity but a much more developed understanding can be had by studying the writings of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas. << yes, and all other vaishnavas' writings.

>>And they were existing side by side for years, till Hindu fanatics decided to break the mosque. They are just as bad as Babur. << i thought i posted a eposne to this. for sevral decased xians kept slaves in US. during that time slaves and masters were living side by side. would you argue that that tyoeu of living should continue? when one is insulted/looted/raped kicked and if he has not strenght to fight back or win a fight he will live side by side with the enemy till he knows he can fight the enemy. the waiting could be long too. but it cannot justify the first barbaric act. try live in paksitan side by side with islamist there and see how it feels. (please do not because you may not come alive.) besides, how the hindus should live in their own country is their internal business, not of xians or muslims of any one. the hindus are not coming to your home country and telling that blacks and whites or white supremist and jews should live side by side. please do some self inspetion whether you love all (or should love all) or you hate someone just because you cannot argue rationally with him, and you sometimes use your power of deleting the posts for no good reason. hinduism says that more power one gets more careful one needs to be and avoid any misuse of the power. krishna has given you the power to delete posts here. the world and krishna will know how you use that power.

>>Yet the Hindu fanatics will kill innocent muslims throughout India. Babur has already been punished by God. Your killing of innocent Muslims in India will only bring you sin, it will not please Rama.<< no, i do not approve it, but if the muslims do not understand that islam is barbaric and give it up and keep their aggreisve nature, they will suffer. india is not saudi araabia. the ideology has no home roots there. No how any one ould know babur has been punished by god? he ruled india after invading. is that a punishment? i or hindus do not intend to kill innocents, but when kranti happens it is hard to control kranti precisely. when you spary on weeds, some grass could also get hurt. hindus know well what will please rama. to live with insult on rama and aggressor's monuments of victories of aggression cannot please rama or his devotees. >>There are tens of thousands of Rama temples throughout India crumbling due ot neglect. The Hindu nationalists care little for such temples, as their true aim is hatred of other religions, not in building Rama temples.<< that is not an excuse to allow a mosque on a rama temple. how you would like a mosque on a xian catheral of italy? if 56 years of non hatred cannot change muslims' heart, if even gandhi failed to make the muslims non viooent, then hatred is natural. you cannot love a cobra who bites you again and again. every one is no a liberated devotee like your self. building ayodhya tempel is a symbolic struggle to bring back hindu pride and free from the feeling that the hindus are nobody in their own land. >>Neither is it a Hindu country.<< Wow! India is the cradle of the vedic culture or sanatana dharmis since even before the time of pandavas or Rama, and you do not know it!! just becaue the hindus were ruled over by the invader muslims or xians, does not make the country theirs. >>It is a country with millions of people belonging to dozens of religions.<< yes, but the home religion is sanatana dharma or hinduism. hindus allwed some other religions to live there, and they can send them ahome if they do not behave. a previlidge was given to them, not right; better say the hindus at that time were weak to throw them out. now it is different, and the matter has to be fixed. >> Each person has the right to worship the Lord as they perceive Him. << yes, and the muslims can do it in pakistan or at your home out of bharat. >>No one has the right to destroy the place of worship held sacred by others, neither Babur, nor Hindu fanatics.<< yes, and the aggressors need to be preached first. but what would you do when koran says to kill kafirs (including HK's) and destroy their religious infrastructure? gita says hindu to love HK's, and that is why i am here. "hindu fanatic" is an oximoron. vamdev shastri has written an long article about it. >>The entire city of Ayodhya is the holy dhama of Bhagavan Ramachandra. The fanatics care little for the sacred dhama, nor for the temples there.<< yes, the fanatic muslims did not care and destroyed rama temple. >>It is much more important to reconvert Hindu's back to humanity, morality and spirituality. << yes, but it is true of all the people of the world. to the hindus i tell them to folow prabhuapda and all follow krishna's message in gita, to keep india free from aggresive indologies. then they can follow thir personald worhsip to any deva/devi if they want. it is not smart to do, but it is thei freedom to do so. thr eis no need to look down tothem if they do so. >>India is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Hindu's take every oportunity to cheat their fellow brothers for the smallest profit. << yes it is sad, and that is why india needs pure devotees of krishna to help them become pure sanatana dharmis. however people of other countries are not saints. did you find any asaint in pakistan or afghanisttan or saudi arabia? in india, yes youwill find many. >>On top of this there is hatred based on race, religion, caste and even state! << it is not as much as you describe, and things are changing for good. the thing to remember is that no matter how they are or were, it is they who kept vaishnavism alive despite 1200 years of islam destructions of lives and scriptures. had they not done it, prabhupada would have nothing to give to the hippies and the world. >>These are all signs of Kali-yuga's progression, much like political Swami's justifying violence against other faiths in the name of Rama.<< the first sign of kali was shown when the aggressor xians and muslims invaded india. they should be the first ones to be perached. perhaps you live close to goa. have you studied how xians spread xianity there? it is very brutal. the same culture completely destroyed incas in south america. you are a krishna devotee and so i love you, but i have to tell the truth as i know. i pray to krishna that you understand. others will, many will, if not all. rationality is no one's monopoly. - asato ma sat gamaya - satyam param dhi mahi

>>The speaker without hesitation said that both can be there side by side.<< - theist HK temples do not allow any god other than krishna or chaitanya. so then what ground any HK has to tell sanatana dharmis to allow a mosque at Ram's temple or next to it when HK's do not even allow any vedic deva and devi in HK temples? why, because it is not wised to do. islam and xianity say idolatory is devils work and needs to be destroyed. that is the first reason they destroyed hindu temples in india. they even destoroyed 2000 years old bamian buddha statue. when gandhi proposed coexistance to avoid partition of india in 1947, the muslims rejected it. not only that, they threatened for a civil war. so who is the barbaric bully? even after partition the hidnsu gave chance to muslims to co exist peacefuly till now. what is the result? attack on hindu temples, etc. so who does not want to co-exist?

>>Building of a Ram temple in Ayodhya will simply lead to more violence and killing. Better all Indians build Ram temple's in their hearts and live pure lives. There is enough hatred and violence in India already.<< -jn das then so be it. a sura should never give an aggressor the benefit of aggression. aggressor babur destroyed ram temple, that is one wrong. he built mosque on top of it is 2nd wrong. the current muslims of india whose ancestors were hindus resisting to rebuild ram temple is 3rd wrong. and you saying do not build ram temple while chanting hare rama is 4th wrong. ayodha or india is not a arab race's counry or a muslim country. islam has invaded there and invaded brutally. If HK's cannot re-convert the muslims of India back to vaishnavism soon, and if the muslims resist ram temple re construction, then they may loose lives. so, please preach to them if their blood is so dear to you. hindu kshatriyas will do their dharma. every hindus will invoke kshatriya spirit within them. HK are hindus too. if they think rationally, they will understand it. else they already are kafirs for the muslims who will never spare them.

all can pray rama that rama temple sould be built where it was once. then one has to figure himself what else he/she can do. each one's abilities and resources are different. so each has to decide himself. to build unity for the purpose is worth doing.

very good response, theist prabhu. life provides oppertunites to do good to other lives and accumulate punya. however the help provded should give chance to the receiver of help to progress spiritually. any help that drags the receiver away from god is not help.

>>get your kartalas ready! << yes, if one is a brahmana. he however helping only to himself. if asuras win, he (the kafir) will not remain alive, or will never have chance to use kartala or chant hare krishna any more. a kshatriya would choose to fight asuras. a vaishya should make money selling to suras and not to asuras. a shudra has to do serve suras only.

i do not think so. US does not want to kill people to the maximum extent possible, and does not want to rule over the country direclty. US wants a friendly gov. eerywhere.