Tantrayoga

There are lots of stories in the Bhagwatam. Its a good scripture for those wanting to advance in Vaishnava Bhakti lineage and know about the pastimes by reading about them. Yes Hari nam is a way for Kaliyuga and Vishwambhar Mishra propagated it well as Chaitanya. I'm all respects for that. But nevertheless, Chaitanya doesn't declare his being Krsna as did Krsna. All these scriptural quotations and their interpretations point to Chaitanya only as Krsna avatara is again debatable. I won't be surprised if Prabhupada is made as an incarnation of kind in the next 20 years or so. I don't mean any offenses though. But in this age of quarrel and hypocrisy ... The Gaudiyas hve problem with Iskcon, Iskcon with Gaudiyas, with Ritviks and others... and all claim to be following Shri Chaitanya. All are ready to fight in the name of Chaitanya, Prabhupada, Govind Maharaj or Narayan 'Maharaj'... The bottom line is follow Chaitanya... follow bhakti yoga, devotion to Krsna, but why bash others? Chaitanya said to be servant of the servant of the servant.... . That was real humble. Now we have people fighting in the name of Chaitanya. Regards. Jai Shri Krishna.

The beauty of Hinduism is that all the avataras were recognized and worshipped during their lifetime. Please read about Lord Rama's return to Ayodhya and his worship. Please also read about Bharat keeping Lord Rama's charan Paduka on the Raj Simhasana and worshipping it, running the Kingdom in Ram's name. Krishna was worshipped too. But as it happens Not all can recognize the Lord during his avataran period. Arjuna couldn't until he was convinced after darshan of Lord's virat roop.

Pranam Bhagwat lover! I'm glad to know your perspective! Ironically I do find differences in bhava and tatva of what Shri Chaitanya said and what I hear from the preaching lot. I offer my obeisance to the Vaishnavs (Gaudiya and others) who are busy in exploring the vastness of Lord's mercy in any form or sampradaya. Indeed Krsna says he manifests himself before the devotee in the form that he wants him to.

As Raghu stated in an earlier post, to everyone their own. Following message of devotion to Krishna of Shri Chaitanya is blissful. But whenever an avatara came, he declared it. Krsna did. Why did Vishwambhar Mishra needed a "Garb" of Chaitanya if he was Krsna? Chaitanya never declared he was Krsna ever. His followers later thought up a term and explanation called "Chhanna avatara" or hidden avatara. This can be debated. But I see no point really. This also goes in contradiction of Gaudiya philosophy of declaring the truth blatantly. Prabhupadha was blunt as hell in what he believed. And he belonged to Gaudiya school of thought. He was Gaudiya. So were the Goswamis. Although he did take Hari nam to the west. But this doesn't change his sampradayic background and lineage philosophy. Regards.

Vishwashanthisevashram represent "everybody" in India?? I didn't know that. I don't have a problem with the verse or Samvartaka. But who annihilates is the question.

What is the need to look in for "quotes" for everything?? Shiva aniihilates the cosmic manifestation. Are you trying to say that He doesn't and Indra does? Does Indra annihilate cosmic manifestation at Brahma's Ratri with that cloud if that cloud particular is used for this by Indra? What does Shiva do then? Why do you consider him "in the mode of ignorance?" Shiva is Satyam, Shivam, Sundram, Sat-Chit-Ananda. Not tamasa as is popularly explained in a complex way dear bhakta. Chaitanya was a Pure devotee of Krishna. So much that he was hailed as Krishna himself by his followers. He was more concerned with pure devotion than quotes unquotes. And what are you quoting? Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu is not a Vedic scripture / shastra! Nor is Chaitanya Charitamrita. Have you read Raskhan?? What could the Gopis quote?

Which shastras?? are you kidding me? This is fundamental knowledge that Shiva annihilates the cosmic manifestation and not Indra!!

Well Good luck with that Theist. My regards.

Raghu, I'm not out here to establish a new lineage of thought based on my own experiences. When Prabhupada annouced that Hinduism (Sanatana dharma) and Gaudiyas have nothing in common and oppose each other, what is there to talk of mutually "accepted" standard of evidence. Why do people believe their father is their father? Simply because their mother says so? Get an evidence through an accepted DNA test. My family Guru was a Vaishnava Yogi who lived for 300 years not too far from Chaitanya's time. I had an American atheist question me about the "evidence". What evidence do I give him? dig up the samadhi and give DNA samples? You need evidence of Nirvikalpa Samadhi? You don't believe saints like Sri Yukteswar Giri, Yogananda, Babaji? Practice your own samadhi and that will be the best evidence. I believe simply through inner guidance that I get from my initiations and visions into the field. - Regards.

Indra thought as I do?? Indra is a God! If Gods think like me then I should be flattered. Suchandra, I don't really get impressed by using Bhagwatam example and examples of how Krsna punished such n such persona and if I say or do something then it would imply the exact same thing. Krsna is not lifting Govardhan's everyday. A devotee was murdered in New Vrindavana and his body was secretly burried there by the management or whoever they were.. What did Krsna do? I'll be glad to rise upto the level of Indra and then confront Krsna only to fall under his holy feet. Lord Hanuman lifted a whole mountain too. Lord Shiva protected hsi devotee Markandya from the God of Death Yama. What's the point? There is something wrong in the translation or somewhere here. A cloud with whic Indra annihilates the "whole cosmic manifestation"?? Indra can't do that. That is Lord Shiva's right and job. Shiva can annihilate the whole cosmic manifestation. lol! I think you are confusing me with Indra in some way Suchandra ji! I'm not defying Krsna or considering myself as Krsna in anyways! lol. This is a common scare tactic. I think this distortion is uncalled for. But thanks for putting this story. I think it is believed in the Brijwasi culture to tell and listen to stories of Govinda's pastimes as auspicious and bringing spiritual benefit. I've gotten some benefit from reading it too.

The same way, as the Hare Krishnas are in love with a Krishna they have never seen or met. Through the experience of Bona-fide Gurus and Yogis. oh and Krishna himself talks of samadhi too. I don't memorize quote numbers though.

Throwing the universally fitting shoe vaguely at the crowd was an interesting thing Theist.

Asking Gods for material gains is shastra sammat! Where does Krishna say in Bhagwad Gita don't ask anything? Asking is not "ordering"!! Prabhupada twisted sanskrit word of "Dehi" to ordering! If its an order, then its not flattery!! (I know some people don't like exclamation marks in my posts) And here in lies the double standard. Double standards don't work in spiritual life. Gods are not flattered. You may burn a thousand lamps of ghee and make all prasadam and keep selling mahaprasadam at higher prices. This flatery doesn't work in pleasing the Gods. Gods don't help unless you are sincere. When Krishna wanted to please Lord Shiva he had to do rigorous Pashupat sadhna. So did Arjuna approach Indra and Shiva and probably did say "dehi" to fulfill his aim of getting divine weapons. So this doesn't go in line with the Vedic culture. The Vedic culture doesn't preach to live a life of poverty. But it does teach non attachment to the riches and not falling from spiritual life. In practice, Prabhupada never ceased to keep on collecting rich funds for his organization. But his message of keeping the desires of running after material gains alone came on right time for the western people having only material life perspective to life.

Dear Beggar, Of course I have met many good people amongst the Gaudiyas / Iskconites. But the general tendency and preaching is thus. Usually the humble ones don't have much scriptural knowledge. I've met some of the 'servants' of highly perched Gurus more humble and nice than the Gurus themselves, who are busy basking in their own glory.

Raghu ji, Namaskar. Well, yog is not essentially a topic for vedantic debate. Its more experiential. rasa is experiential. Thus yoga. Bhakti is also yoga as its experience based. To give "pramana" of taste and rasa is to talk of explaining the taste of rajbhog to someone who never taster sugar or anything sweet. I am not talking this personally in terms of you. I'm making a general statement. I cant seem to keep my finger off the exclamation key? Is that a problem? Yes I'm expressive! Of course my statements are not based solely on my own opinion. And I'm not implying that all of you have to accept it. Gaudiyas are good accepting their own versions of stories and milk curd, Shiva 87% etc. theories. No problem. Problem is with the put down of others! (here goes the exclamation mark).