Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Namaste All, It seems to have become the NDS with an admixture of the K-List. I shall retire for a while. Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 In a message dated 10/31/2000 4:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.otter writes: > ppps I think Tony's trying to make me feel guilty. It worked. I'm in > shame now. Hey Tony, join me!!!! I'll save some worms for you. Hey > Harsha, if you hadn't started this list, none of this would have > happened. You can eat some worms too. Let's all eat worms. Hey, now that we have enough guilt running around here, we can start our own religion. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Dear Tony, Please Tony do not leave or retire, you cannot keep doing that. You do not know how close this list is to the teachings of Ramana Maharshi, as you seem to find that so important. And it is. You just do not get it yet. Please read all the posts send to you again, the clues are all in there... IT IS REALLY SO and everybody would hate to see you leave this Satsang Love, Wim - Tony O'Clery <aoclery October 31, 2000 9:27 AM What has happened to this satsang? > Namaste All, > > It seems to have become the NDS with an admixture of the K-List. > > I shall retire for a while. > > Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Dear Everyone, If I am the cause (or part of the cause) of Tony's temporary (I hope) retirement, I would rather go back to lurker state. This is not a matter voting me in or out. Just a few suggestions would suffice. If what I write is not in line with the preamble of this list please tell me so. I know I write sometimes rather directly, that is probably a certain Dutchness, calling a spade a spade. But then maybe I should beat around the bush, rather than ruffle the feathers and scare the birds away. Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hi Wim and Tony and everyone else Wim, I'm glad we do not have to choose between keeping you on the list or not. And I'm glad Tony is still staying (lurking or not). Maybe the listowner, Harsha, has some thoughts about this... but my feeling is that everyone can stay here if they so wish. A good discussion livens up the list, that is sure. But in the time I have been on the net, I have yet to see an exchange of viewpoints that, without there being a great degree of trust between the "arguers", and one part actually asking the other part a question, i.e. signalling a willingness to actively listen and absorb the viewpoints of the other, managed to make one of the discussers change her or is point of view. I believe this is even more true for lists where topics of religious or spiritual subjects are on the agenda, because these subjects are in the domain of belief (and personal experience) and beliefs are difficult to argue one's way around. In addition (or perhaps because of this ?), most people hold tightly onto their beliefs and the harder they are questioned, the tighter the grip becomes. Few people can attain anything by way of spiritual insight or spiritual life or simply life, when being dragged in a leash. The walker must walk the walk on her own two feet and there must be trust or there will be no guidance and no walking (raising one's feet in the air... ). In the end, everything but trust must remain. I'm getting sentimental here, it's because I have a romantic balled on in the background as I write this. Anyway, I just wanted to say I have followed the discussion with interest, am glad people want to stay on the list and hope everyone can get to walk some more, but feeling comfortable in doing so. I admire the both of you, Wim and Tony. Love, Amanda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hello William: I do not believe that you are the cause of Tony taking a break. There has been nothing inappropriate in your posts and certainly there would be no reason for you to go back to lurking. IMHO your thoughts are not only provocative they also are presented with respect and compassion. This type of situation can just become difficult at times and while we all know that the intellectual mind must be left behind it seems that we also have to convince it first that there is a good reason to do so :-). The on-going mind game we play with ourselves and others eventually can lead us to fearfully defending our viewpoint before we take the dive. This is a wonderful list and generally peace resumes so I hope that you choose to continue to hang out with us. Namaste, Linda >Dear Everyone,>If I am the cause (or part of the cause) of Tony's temporary (I hope)>retirement, I would rather go back to lurker state.>This is not a matter voting me in or out. Just a few suggestions would>suffice.>If what I write is not in line with the preamble of this list please tell >me>so.>I know I write sometimes rather directly, that is probably a certain>Dutchness, calling a spade a spade.>But then maybe I should beat around the bush, rather than ruffle the>feathers and scare the birds away.>Love, Wim// All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Tony O'Clery wrote: > Namaste All, > > It seems to have become the NDS with an admixture of the K-List. > > I shall retire for a while. > > Om Namah Sivaya, Tony. > It won't help. The walls are a bilious green and this is a crazy business. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hey!!! what are you guys doing? None of you can take the responsibility for this, would it be NDS, K-List, Tony, Wim, Amanda, Linda or others. You guys are funny... Thinking it could be so. Truly, it's me who his responsible for all this. I just finished my one year tree travel, http://pages.infinit.net/carrea/tree/tree.htm And since then all the world is coming to an end. Ok, so it's me and not you. I confess... Jokes on the side, I may use my delete key, but have not done and do not intend to. Really, I do enjoy reading eacxh one of you guys. Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hmmmmm... I dunno. I think this whole thing about being One is too hard. Even being kind is too much trouble. It's like putting milk back in the carton after spilling it. It's diluted by the tears, you see, so it doesn't fit. I recommend that EVERYONE (except me) quit this list immediately. (Then I would be One! HUURRAAAAY!!!) I win, I win, I win!!!! (I won!) (I One) did anybody notice that I won? is there anybody in there? hello? oh poop, Mark ps so where is that hooligan Harsha when we need him to kick people off the list? (oh, I kicked him off. never mind) pps, okay, I admit it, I'm the one responsible for turning this nice satsang into another NDS. I did it on purpose too. I'm a meanie. no wonder there's no one around. Hmmm... I'm hungry... think I'll eat some worms. ppps I think Tony's trying to make me feel guilty. It worked. I'm in shame now. Hey Tony, join me!!!! I'll save some worms for you. Hey Harsha, if you hadn't started this list, none of this would have happened. You can eat some worms too. Let's all eat worms. Nobody likes me, Everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some worms. Big ones, small ones, Short ones, long ones, Even itty bitty ones, I'm gonna eat some worms. Hmmm, that doesn't sound quite right. Anyone know the lyrics? Oh, this is from the web, so it must be right: Nobody likes me Everybody hates me I'm gonna eat some worms Long fat juicy ones Itsy bitsy slimy ones see how they wiggle and squirm First you bite their heads off Then you suk their guts out See how they wiggle and squirm Nobody likes me Everybody hates me I'm gonna eat some worms pppps If there is going to be a policy of eating innocent worms on this list, I will have to quit asap. I will not tolerate the mastication of any members of the phylum Annelida. that's it, I am OUT OF HERE!!! (and damn good riddance I might add...) You won't have Mark Otter to kick around anymore. I quit!!!! ppppps now where is that genus Lumbricus cookbook anyway? I gotta straighten this place out... mmmmmm.... juicy pink worms.... yum... pppppps Hey Harsha, remind me to join again when the ruckus blows over. I have a nice recipe I want to share... Antoine Carré wrote: > Hey!!! what are you guys doing? > > None of you can take the responsibility for this, would it be NDS, > K-List, > Tony, Wim, Amanda, Linda or others. > > You guys are funny... Thinking it could be so. > > Truly, it's me who his responsible for all this. I just finished my > one > year tree travel, > > http://pages.infinit.net/carrea/tree/tree.htm > > And since then all the world is coming to an end. > > Ok, so it's me and not you. I confess... > > > Jokes on the side, > > I may use my delete key, but have not done and do not intend to. > Really, I > do enjoy reading eacxh one of you guys. > > Antoine > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hi Mark, That was fun to read Mark. Is this now an official Worm site? Or a Worm Hole site ? Or a Black Hole site? Can we all disappear now into a Worm Hole, into Nothingness and pop out some other illusive 'End' and be Everythingness. Well maybe the scientists have it right? Ah this illusion thing! Whoever got us so confused with that in the first place. I think we should take all the writings that contain the word 'illusion' into MS WORD and do a REPLACE ALL to substitute 'illusion" it with 'confusion'. We could have some fun trying it on a test document. At one point (I was teaching word-processing) we did something like that for fun. We found a nice article on roses. Well, you know everyone loves roses (even Tony, he keeps talking about thorns . We took the document and replaced every occurrence of the word rose with dandelion. We laughed so hard when we read the result. Love and fun, Wim PS. Mark, I do not even know you, so do not leave yet. ~<>~<>~<>~<>~>~<>~ happy worm ~<>~<>~<>~<>~>~<>~:{ sad worm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Hoi Wim, Don't leave - the Dutch contingent is small already "Rattling cages" once in a while is quite useful. What "we" are after, is no less than unconditional happiness, right? That isn't an invitation to "do" self-enquiry while visiting the discotheque but you get the drift... If one doesn't experience "Peace" in circumstances that once caused the mind to run riot, one has to question the effectiveness of sadhana... I don't mind having the feathers ruffled now and then ) Love, Jan _^^______^^___ /______________\\ / | ____\/ ____ | \ | | @ @ | | | | | | | | \ \ \|/ / / /#\ \____________/ /#\ /### | | ###\ \##############| |##############/ \#############| † |#############/ \############| |############/ \##########| |##########/ \########_--- ^^ ^^---_ ########/ \#####/ /#####/ \#/ \ / \#/ \/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ \/ || || ^^^^ ^^^^ - - arial 10 - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 On 10/31/00 at 6:01 PM leteegee wrote: [...] ºHey, now that we have enough guilt running around here, we can start our own ºreligion. º ºLove, ºxxxtg The sect of the owl perhaps ? Love, Jan _^^______^^___ /______________\\ / | ____\/ ____ | \ | | @ @ | | | | | | | | \ \ \|/ / / /#\ \____________/ /#\ /### | | ###\ \##############| |##############/ \#############| † |#############/ \############| |############/ \##########| |##########/ \########_--- ^^ ^^---_ ########/ \#####/ /#####/ \#/ \ / \#/ \/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ \/ || || ^^^^ ^^^^ - - arial 10 - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 In a message dated 10/31/2000 6:12:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, mary writes: > Aren't there already enough of those religions? There's quite a choice out > there. > OOPs, I'm sorry I said that. I didn't mean it, really! Maybe I shouldn't > have said that. Will I go to hell? Will they make me eat worms? >Guilty, Mary Mary... Just say three Hail Mary's and go sin no more. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Aren't there already enough of those religions? There's quite a choice out there. OOPs, I'm sorry I said that. I didn't mean it, really! Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Will I go to hell? Will they make me eat worms? Guilty, Mary leteegee wrote: > In a message dated 10/31/2000 4:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mark.otter writes: > > > ppps I think Tony's trying to make me feel guilty. It worked. I'm in > > shame now. Hey Tony, join me!!!! I'll save some worms for you. Hey > > Harsha, if you hadn't started this list, none of this would have > > happened. You can eat some worms too. Let's all eat worms. > > Hey, now that we have enough guilt running around here, we can start our own > religion. > > Love, > xxxtg > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Dear tg > Hey, now that we have enough guilt running around here, we can start our own > religion. yes let's do that but we'll turn it the other way around instead of the goodies at the top and the guilties at the bottom we'll put the goodies at the bottom and the guilties at the top oops getting confused here got it wrong it is like that already let's not start a religion then Guilty, Wim Naaaah Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Pshaw! Religions are old hat. It's self-help groups these days! I say let's rename the Satsang "Worm eaters anonymous"... Hmmm... the acronym needs work though. How about "worm eaters anonymous of Kansas?" No, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore... Love, Mark Mary Bianco wrote: > Aren't there already enough of those religions? There's quite a choice > out there. > > OOPs, I'm sorry I said that. I didn't mean it, really! Maybe I > shouldn't have said that. Will I go to hell? Will they make me eat > worms? > Guilty, Mary > > leteegee wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/31/2000 4:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > mark.otter writes: > > > > > ppps I think Tony's trying to make me feel guilty. It worked. > I'm in > > > shame now. Hey Tony, join me!!!! I'll save some worms for you. > Hey > > > Harsha, if you hadn't started this list, none of this would have > > > happened. You can eat some worms too. Let's all eat worms. > > > > Hey, now that we have enough guilt running around here, we can start > our own > > religion. > > > > Love, > > xxxtg > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 In a message dated 10/31/00 5:22:11 PM, mark.otter writes: >Pshaw! Religions are old hat. It's self-help groups these days! I say >let's rename the Satsang "Worm eaters anonymous"... Hmmm... the acronym >needs work though. How about "worm eaters anonymous of Kansas?" No, I >don't think we are in Kansas anymore... For sure, Mark, I don't think that you are in Kansas.... I'm not even sure of your presence with us here on this planet ;-) But wherever you are writing from, you make me laugh my friend, and that is a good thing. Thanks for the chuckles.... now if you'll just let me know how to keep my monkey mind from continuing to sing: ....Long fat juicy ones Itsy bitsy slimy ones see how they wiggle and squirm... It's bad enough that (because of my lack of surrender) I am burdened with almost constant, non-volitional thoughts. But now not only can't I stop my thoughts, but I'm singing The Worm Song instead of thinking about something that will at least reward my illusions with money or fame. Life is Grande, no? Namasté- Mike >Hmmm... the acronym needs work though. ps: how about: Worm-Hungry Online, Always-Mysterious Imbeciles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2000 Report Share Posted November 1, 2000 Dear Amanda, You wrote: > But in the time I have been on the net, I have yet to see an exchange > of viewpoints that, without there being a great degree of trust > between the "arguers", and one part actually asking the other part a > question, i.e. signalling a willingness to actively listen and absorb > the viewpoints of the other, managed to make one of the discussers > change her or his point of view. You could be right, the persons involved in the mutual cajolement do not usually change viewpoints, or so it seems. On the other hand though, the readers watching the exchanges do get something out of it. Very often in 'them' it seems that some transformation takes place or previous transformations firm up or get get affirmed. To see viewpoints stand up against each other makes the onlooker get the points (whatever) quicker. The analysis of a topic is done by two clear minded (in their own eyes at least) people and the listener will do the integration, maybe even at a cost to both "arguers' (positive meaning of the word.) As a witness to many arguments (positive meaning of the word again) I have observed that with myself often enough. If it would not have been for me standing long enough by the sidelines, I would not now feel comfortable and fearless inside the arena. The Tony's and the Wim's and the 'Lobsters' do serve that purpose, neither of 'these guys or gals' care much about winning or losing (each of them can not lose, you see, of that they are convinced.) It is the onlookers though that have the advantage, it is between and in them that the real dynamics of transformation takes place. Now it would not be good if the onlookers were politically or religiously taking sides, luckily we are all beyond adolescent behaviour and away from the growth preventive environment of peer pressure and group control. I know that what I am trying to say is somewhat debatable but I think that there is enough value in my 'windowdressing' to allow these kind of hot and energetic exchanges. To be honest, in all the years that I have been involved in this world I have never been afraid to start an honest 'this is what I stand for' exchange. The more I loved..., the more I re-covered the unconditional nature of love, the better I got at it, and the more the general benefits increased. So, even though Tony may want a time-out, I think he is a heck of a good player in this arena of truth about who we are. In any case, these type of exchanges happen because they have to happen, otherwise they would not happen. (AHA) > I believe this is even more true for lists where topics of religious > or spiritual subjects are on the agenda, because these subjects are > in the domain of belief (and personal experience) and beliefs are > difficult to argue one's way around. In addition (or perhaps because > of this ?), most people hold tightly onto their beliefs and the > harder they are questioned, the tighter the grip becomes. Try to take a bone out of a dog's snout ! > Few people can attain anything by way of spiritual insight or > spiritual life or simply life, when being dragged in a leash. Funny though, often with me, (and I noticed that in Tony as well) after a cooling off period, the point that I was fighting started to make some sense. A tenuous start, some hesitating beginning of self integration. And as I was seeing that happen in me, I also started to observe that in my 'opponents'. You start to love your enemy, and you notice that it is reciprocal. Now there is a great guy who suggested that before. (Just forgot his name, he was from Judea or so :-) Truly though, this happens easier with searchers for the truth than preventers of it. Or maybe not, either way, one gets in a league with the other. > walker must walk the walk on her own two feet and there must be trust > or there will be no guidance and no walking (raising one's feet in > the air... ). In the end, everything but trust must remain. Trust, right, because we are after truth... philo sophia... hagia sophia. > I'm getting sentimental here, it's because I have a romantic ballad > on in the background as I write this. You think it was the ballad? I do not think so, love is just so 'frustratingly' unconditional it makes you bawl :...-( :-) > I admire the both of you, Wim and Tony. Thanks for your clarity, welcome and love, Amanda and all others. Wim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2000 Report Share Posted November 1, 2000 Wim Borsboom wrote: > Dear Amanda, > > You wrote: > > But in the time I have been on the net, I have yet to see an exchange > > of viewpoints that, without there being a great degree of trust > > between the "arguers", and one part actually asking the other part a > > question, i.e. signalling a willingness to actively listen and absorb > > the viewpoints of the other, managed to make one of the discussers > > change her or his point of view. > > You could be right, the persons involved in the mutual cajolement do not > usually change viewpoints, or so it seems. On the other hand though, the > readers watching the exchanges do get something out of it. Very often in > 'them' it seems that some transformation takes place or previous > transformations firm up or get get affirmed. To see viewpoints stand up > against each other makes the onlooker get the points (whatever) quicker. The > analysis of a topic is done by two clear minded (in their own eyes at least) > people and the listener will do the integration, maybe even at a cost to > both "arguers' (positive meaning of the word.) > As a witness to many arguments (positive meaning of the word again) I have > observed that with myself often enough. If it would not have been for me > standing long enough by the sidelines, I would not now feel comfortable and > fearless inside the arena. The Tony's and the Wim's and the 'Lobsters' do > serve that purpose, neither of 'these guys or gals' care much about winning > or losing (each of them can not lose, you see, of that they are convinced.) > It is the onlookers though that have the advantage, it is between and in > them that the real dynamics of transformation takes place. Now it would not > be good if the onlookers were politically or religiously taking sides, > luckily we are all beyond adolescent behaviour and away from the growth > preventive environment of peer pressure and group control. > I know that what I am trying to say is somewhat debatable but I think that > there is enough value in my 'windowdressing' to allow these kind of hot and > energetic exchanges. To be honest, in all the years that I have been > involved in this world I have never been afraid to start an honest 'this is > what I stand for' exchange. The more I loved..., the more I re-covered the > unconditional nature of love, the better I got at it, and the more the > general benefits increased. So, even though Tony may want a time-out, I > think he is a heck of a good player in this arena of truth about who we are. > In any case, these type of exchanges happen because they have to happen, > otherwise they would not happen. (AHA) > I disagree Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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