Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Dear Mace, I selected some sentences from your friend's frog story. All those selected sentences have something to do with death. I have surrounded all the death words with*stars* (For K list members I have added the complete story to the end of this post.) Your friend wrote: > to stop, that they were as good as *dead.*<......> > frogs were saying and simply gave up. He fell down and *died*.<.....> > 1) There is power of life and *death* in the tongue.<.....> > what it takes to *kill* them. Be careful of what you <.....> > when you are in a life or *death* situation, can be a good thing. <.....> Did you not know that death actually does not exist...? Death is only a concept in the eye of a beholder who sees another living entity go through a 'certain end of cycle transformation (CECT)'. This transformation has certain special characteristics that the beholder calls 'death'. In fact most other beholders who themselves do not show those special CECT characteristics, call it 'death' as well. But notice that it is only a consensual concept, an 'agreed upon something' amongst those beholders who themselves actually have not gone through that certain transformative experience. It is like people talking, writing and having opinions about spinach, people who actually never may have seen, let alone eaten spinach. Those beings who actually have gone through CECTs and who have been able to somehow 'make it back' will tell you that *death* AS described and identified by its beholders did not take place... indeed they bear witness of something called 'immortality', 'amrita', 'eternal existence'. The beholders of death, never seriously ask themselves, "What is it, that a subject of that certain transformation goes through?" If they would consider that even a little bit, they know that they cannot say anything sensible about it. The reality of that occurrence is not within their own experience. If they would actually wonder about that, they would definitely describe and name that transformation as something else than something so absolute as death. Death, by definition and logically does not exist. When it is defined as the end of existence, *death itself* cannot exist. It cannot be treated as something like a piece of cheese. Except maybe in the context of the 'high cost of dying' or internment as opposed to the 'high cost of living'. The word 'death' used more properly, is more like a hole in a piece of cheese, the hole does not exist, the hole is a concept, only the cheese exists. Well it is getting complex now. 'Death' is not something that philosophically and psychologically has the same tangebility as an object such as a pipe. Remember the picture of a "pipe" by Magritte called: "This is not a pipe". The concept of death is somewhat like that. Death is also definitely not a pipe. Do I get everybody neatly confused here, good! I have gone through seven NDEs (Near Death Experiences), five in the first six years of my life, the sixth one in Holland about 5 years ago. The seventh NDE 'never' happened that night 2 years ago in Denver when I was there after the school shootings. It is only since the seventh, (the one that never happened) that I absolutely know that I am immortal and that everything is. You too Mace. Mortals are the ones that are convinced in their opinion that living entities die, immortals are the ones that have experienced an CECT. Love and Amrita, (Ambrosia) Wim ------------------------------ The frog story is interesting, it comes from Harsha's Satsang , I thought it would be good to also have the K-list members read it. >>>>Forwarded from a friend: A group of frogs were traveling through the woods, and two of them fell into a deep pit. All the other frogs gathered around the pit. When they saw how deep the pit was, they told the unfortunate frogs they would never get out. The two frogs ignored the comments and tried to jump up out of the pit. The other frogs kept telling them to stop, that they were as good as dead. Finally, one of the frogs took heed to what the other frogs were saying and simply gave up. He fell down and died. The other frog continued to jump as hard as he could. Once again, the crowd of frogs yelled at him to stop the pain and suffering and just die. He jumped even harder and finally made it out. Leaping for joy! When he got out, the other frogs asked him, "Why did you continue jumping? Didn't you hear us?" The frog explained to them that he was deaf. He thought they were encouraging him the entire time. This story teaches three lessons: 1) There is power of life and death in the tongue. An encouraging word to someone who is down can lift them up and help them make it through the day. 2) A destructive word to someone who is down can be what it takes to kill them. Be careful of what you say. Speak life to those who cross your path. 3) Turning a deaf ear to all the destructive words when you are in a life or death situation, can be a good thing. The power of words ... it is sometimes hard to understand that an encouraging word can go such a long way. Anyone can speak words that tend to rob another of their spirit to continue in difficult times. Special is the individual who will take the time to encourage another. Be a special to others. Share this with someone you like. >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Hi Wim Your point on death, rather relevant to me now, since my exwife and old friend, is in the hospice,.. cancer spread to brain. She is still clear enough. Not afraid of dying but of the pain prior to that. Also the pain of letting go of the loved ones. One of my friends says, that it is a natural thing, like leaves falling off.. etc, and that if it would happen to him, he would not regard it as something terribly special. I detected thoug a rather conceptual/Idealistic attitude behind his statement. There is a tendency to easily indulge in philosophising about the things of life, even death.. But when it Actually knocks at one's door, I doubt one can take it as cooly as my friend... regardless of one's convictions, beliefs spiritual-'knowledge'.. Though You are perhaps in another position than most of us, having experienced NDE's. There might not be 'death' but the Fact is that the physical form is Paralysed forever and turned to ashes.. and Not Here any longer to talk, play.. That's a Fact. The Vedantins may coolly repeat the mantra, 'all is illusion',.. but when his wife jumps in bed with another,.. hell is loose... And the Fact of the Fear/pain of the dying one or his/her friends, is Not really 'helped' with Stories of the Beyond .. comfort is not real help.. So perhaps the thing one should give attention to and enquire into is Fear, the pain of loss etc., and not ..is there an after-life or not or feeling good about what they say and how 'great' it's gonna be. If we learn how to live, we must also know what dying is.. and it might not be any different. jb. , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Dear Mace, > > I selected some sentences from your friend's frog story. All those selected > sentences have something to do with death. I have surrounded all the death > words with*stars* > > (For K list members I have added the complete story to the end of this > post.) > > Your friend wrote: > > to stop, that they were as good as *dead.*<......> > > frogs were saying and simply gave up. He fell down and *died*.<.....> > > 1) There is power of life and *death* in the tongue.<.....> > > what it takes to *kill* them. Be careful of what you <.....> > > when you are in a life or *death* situation, can be a good thing. > <.....> > > Did you not know that death actually does not exist...? > Death is only a concept in the eye of a beholder who sees another living > entity go through a 'certain end of cycle transformation (CECT)'. This > transformation has certain special characteristics that the beholder calls > 'death'. In fact most other beholders who themselves do not show those > special CECT characteristics, call it 'death' as well. But notice that it is > only a consensual concept, an 'agreed upon something' amongst those > beholders who themselves actually have not gone through that certain > transformative experience. > It is like people talking, writing and having opinions about spinach, people > who actually never may have seen, let alone eaten spinach. > Those beings who actually have gone through CECTs and who have been able to > somehow 'make it back' will tell you that *death* AS described and > identified by its beholders did not take place... indeed they bear witness > of something called 'immortality', 'amrita', 'eternal existence'. > The beholders of death, never seriously ask themselves, "What is it, that a > subject of that certain transformation goes through?" If they would consider > that even a little bit, they know that they cannot say anything sensible > about it. The reality of that occurrence is not within their own experience. > If they would actually wonder about that, they would definitely describe and > name that transformation as something else than something so absolute as > death. > Death, by definition and logically does not exist. When it is defined as the > end of existence, *death itself* cannot exist. It cannot be treated as > something like a piece of cheese. Except maybe in the context of the 'high > cost of dying' or internment as opposed to the 'high cost of living'. The > word 'death' used more properly, is more like a hole in a piece of cheese, > the hole does not exist, the hole is a concept, only the cheese exists. > Well it is getting complex now. > 'Death' is not something that philosophically and psychologically has the > same tangebility as an object such as a pipe. Remember the picture of a > "pipe" by Magritte called: "This is not a pipe". The concept of death is > somewhat like that. Death is also definitely not a pipe. > Do I get everybody neatly confused here, good! > I have gone through seven NDEs (Near Death Experiences), five in the first > six years of my life, the sixth one in Holland about 5 years ago. The > seventh NDE 'never' happened that night 2 years ago in Denver when I was > there after the school shootings. It is only since the seventh, (the one > that never happened) that I absolutely know that I am immortal and that > everything is. > You too Mace. > > Mortals are the ones that are convinced in their opinion that living > entities die, immortals are the ones that have experienced an CECT. > > Love and Amrita, > (Ambrosia) > Wim > ------------------------------ > The frog story is interesting, it comes from Harsha's Satsang , I thought it > would be good to also have the K-list members read it. > > >>>>Forwarded from a friend: > > A group of frogs were traveling through the woods, and > two of them fell into a deep pit. All the other frogs > gathered around the pit. > > When they saw how deep the pit was, they told the > unfortunate frogs they would never get out. The two > frogs ignored the comments and tried to jump up > out of the pit. The other frogs kept telling them > to stop, that they were as good as dead. > > Finally, one of the frogs took heed to what the other > frogs were saying and simply gave up. He fell down and > died. The other frog continued to jump as hard as he could. > > Once again, the crowd of frogs yelled at him to stop > the pain and suffering and just die. He jumped even > harder and finally made it out. Leaping for joy! > > When he got out, the other frogs asked him, "Why did > you continue jumping? Didn't you hear us?" The frog > explained to them that he was deaf. > > He thought they were encouraging him the entire time. > This story teaches three lessons: > > 1) There is power of life and death in the tongue. > An encouraging word to someone who is > down can lift them up and help them make it through the day. > > 2) A destructive word to someone who is down can be > what it takes to kill them. Be careful of what you > say. Speak life to those who cross your path. > > 3) Turning a deaf ear to all the destructive words > when you are in a life or death situation, can be a good thing. > > The power of words ... it is sometimes hard to understand > that an encouraging word can go such a long way. > > Anyone can speak words that tend to rob another of > their spirit to continue in difficult times. > > Special is the individual who will take the time to > encourage another. Be a special to others. Share this > with someone you like. >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Wim Borsboom wrote: > Dear Mace, > > I selected some sentences from your friend's frog story. All those selected > sentences have something to do with death. I have surrounded all the death > words with*stars* > > (For K list members I have added the complete story to the end of this > post.) > > Your friend wrote: > > to stop, that they were as good as *dead.*<......> > > frogs were saying and simply gave up. He fell down and *died*.<.....> > > 1) There is power of life and *death* in the tongue.<.....> > > what it takes to *kill* them. Be careful of what you <.....> > > when you are in a life or *death* situation, can be a good thing. > <.....> > > Did you not know that death actually does not exist...? > Death is only a concept in the eye of a beholder who sees another living > entity go through a 'certain end of cycle transformation (CECT)'. This > transformation has certain special characteristics that the beholder calls > 'death'. In fact most other beholders who themselves do not show those > special CECT characteristics, call it 'death' as well. But notice that it is > only a consensual concept, an 'agreed upon something' amongst those > beholders who themselves actually have not gone through that certain > transformative experience. > It is like people talking, writing and having opinions about spinach, people > who actually never may have seen, let alone eaten spinach. > Those beings who actually have gone through CECTs and who have been able to > somehow 'make it back' will tell you that *death* AS described and > identified by its beholders did not take place... indeed they bear witness > of something called 'immortality', 'amrita', 'eternal existence'. > The beholders of death, never seriously ask themselves, "What is it, that a > subject of that certain transformation goes through?" If they would consider > that even a little bit, they know that they cannot say anything sensible > about it. The reality of that occurrence is not within their own experience. > If they would actually wonder about that, they would definitely describe and > name that transformation as something else than something so absolute as > death. > Death, by definition and logically does not exist. When it is defined as the > end of existence, *death itself* cannot exist. It cannot be treated as > something like a piece of cheese. Except maybe in the context of the 'high > cost of dying' or internment as opposed to the 'high cost of living'. The > word 'death' used more properly, is more like a hole in a piece of cheese, > the hole does not exist, the hole is a concept, only the cheese exists. > Well it is getting complex now. > 'Death' is not something that philosophically and psychologically has the > same tangebility as an object such as a pipe. Remember the picture of a > "pipe" by Magritte called: "This is not a pipe". The concept of death is > somewhat like that. Death is also definitely not a pipe. > Do I get everybody neatly confused here, good! > I have gone through seven NDEs (Near Death Experiences), five in the first > six years of my life, the sixth one in Holland about 5 years ago. The > seventh NDE 'never' happened that night 2 years ago in Denver when I was > there after the school shootings. It is only since the seventh, (the one > that never happened) that I absolutely know that I am immortal and that > everything is. > You too Mace. > > Mortals are the ones that are convinced in their opinion that living > entities die, immortals are the ones that have experienced an CECT. > > Love and Amrita, > (Ambrosia) > Wim Thank you for this insightful viewpoint. I must admit the complexity of such things is far beyond this simple ignorant old man. May the light of wisdom guide all those in search of understanding. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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