Guest guest Posted November 6, 2000 Report Share Posted November 6, 2000 Hi All, I can understand Michael's concern about the frivolous use of words that describe terrible mind states, as I lost an elder brother to mental illness (diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic 29 years ago, and not heard from for over 10 years...), but I want to weigh in on the side of those who are seriously looking at their own minds and gaining clarity about how they operate. I dislike the mental model, wherein there are healthy "normal" people, and that deviation from some perceived static "health" is considered pathological and requiring of immediate reversal, often via drugs. I wonder if the treatment my brother had wasn't part of his problem? I have seen in the holotropic breathwork I have done that my own inner healer and the inner healer of others I have sat for sometimes takes us into "pathological" mind states, which often upon "re-entry" leaves us more healthy rather than less healthy. I find the "safe container", the creation of which is the main goal of the facilitators, to be the thing that allows s a frightening, potentially dangerous state of mind to be a healing experience. I wish for our healing professionals the grace to learn how to allow nature's design to unfold within a loving and safe environment to the extent possible. On the other hand, I can see that one man's temporary healing mental state may be another's organic damage beyond the ability of man and nature to heal. and for these tragically affected folks, I can only offer my deepest compassion and my sincere hopes that our understanding of the brain and mind will improve to allow for succor. Any way, I suspect my brother's case was of the former rather than the latter, but will never know and I encourage us all to learn what we can about our minds so that we can relieve both our own and other's suffering. Michael, you know I love you, and Ivan, I find that I love you as well. Now, that hooligan Harsha is a different matter... (oh, just kidding you gentle man. I love you too. - now THAT's psychosis... he, he, he...) Love, Mark mumble cat wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:00:30 Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > >Thanks Michael for offering this. Mental imbalances and illnesses can > be > >quite serious for individuals and their families. I had a friend in > college > >who had been diagnosed with something similar to that and he had to > take > >medication on a consistent basis, otherwise he could not function. A > >physical or mental disability is certainly nothing to be taken > lightly or to > >be made fun of. I don't think Ivan meant any disrespect but was > rather > >engaging in some personal and creative writing to express the > inherent > >conflicts existing in the human condition which all of us are aware > of and > >face. Ivan's comments were not aimed at any particular individual and > were > >meant to be self-revelatory. But your point Michael is well taken and > we > >should use terms carefully, especially those that can be taken the > wrong > >way. Thanks for pointing this out Michael. > > > Yes, I agree. > Then allow me to apologize for my most previous posting. I sent it out > before reading Michael's reply to Ivan. > > Due to a long period of isolation and an imbalance of the mind I am > sure was caused by the Kundalini energy, I experienced in my early > twenties (some years ago) aural and visual hallucinations similar to > those described in the texbooks in the course of some weeks. It was > indeed frightening and uncomfortable. > > > Love, > > Amanda. > > > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > eGroups Sponsor > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and > subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not > different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the > nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart > to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the > Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It > Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link > from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change > your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 Hello to All, I have not had time to read many of the posts here lately, but I did read Ivan's on being Schizophrenic and a few snippets from some of the responses, though have not had the time to read in depth. To begin this post, in my earlier years, I was exposed to and physically attended to diagnosed schizophrenics. In later years, I also had clients that had been diagnosed ~ Schizoprenic ~ and in addition have known other's with relative's of the diagnosed and know the emotional anguish of such a relationship. When I initially read Ivan's post, I actually thought of posting back with a thank- you for his clarity. I never took the post literally, that Ivan was a Schizophrenic, but rather saw it as a perfect metaphor for the ~ mental condition. In the personal journey of this body/mind and as I have posted here prior ~ this "i" experienced ( to an exagerrated degree) the insanity a human mind is capable of , which I now regard as a blessing and which ultimately allowed me to understand Advaita. Also, just a comment: This egroup, as I understand it, is primarily dedicated to Ramana Maharshi (correct me if I'm wrong) but all views presented here are not in alignment with the non-dual view (for lack of a better way of putting it) of the Jnani. Speaking for myself, I was happy to see Ivan's post as I felt on a similar wavelength with him as I don't always feel that with other postings. Another twist ~ and in light Michael's questioning, thought you might find this of interest; something to ponder ~ Q. About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a client who was schizophrenic, a well-adjusted schizo. R. Like most of us. Q. I tried to get him to own his feelings, to recognize what was going on in his mind and so forth, as psychologists do, and after a while he converted me to spirituality! He said to me " I'm not doing any of this, God makes me do it". I was trying to get him to accept his individuality and responsibility, his function in life. He said "I have no need for functioning". And I tried to convince him, but he would say, "Well on one hand, there is your point of view", and he would tell me what it was. "And on the other hand, there is my point of view." And he would tell me his point of view. After I began reading Nisargadatta, I saw that his point of view was far more real than my point of view and I began siding with him. I told him, "I understand completely where you are", and we parted friends. It was wonderful. R. I've heard many psychiatrists say, "Schizophrenics suffer from the truth. They have no defenses against the truth, and the truth prevents them from ever becoming a normal individual. Q. So it doesn't mean they have two personalities? R. It means that society has labeled that person because they have certain kinds of experiences. It means nothing. excerpt from : It's All A Dream Satsang with Robert Adams Love, ~jessica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 In a message dated 11/07/2000 3:00:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, ellam-ondre writes: R. It means that society has labeled that person because they have certain kinds of experiences. It means nothing. << excerpt from : It's All A Dream Satsang with Robert Adams Love, ~jessica >> Thanks Jessica, Ivan, Michael, Harsha and All, When Ivan posted, my attention was elsewhere, not mindful, not reading deeply. I took on this work to make a site with beautiful graphics, to show that "religions" at core are imbued with metaphysical principles. That like language describing gravity, they may sound different, but the core principles are not so different ... not a newsflash for most people here, certainly not for Robert. So, the site is dedicated to world peace. And, of course, there can be no peace for the world without peace for each individual. And, in doing this what has come up for work has been rather extraordinary, on the camera lens of the film of life, Jews, Arabs, disenfranchised, ill, Native American, all the pieces that society disavows have raised their hands and said, "me too, don't forget me." So, what does one "do?" Nothing really except what is in front of one. So, if I've disowned this part of my psyche as being not me, then I will react to someone writing as Ivan did, if I can claim all of me. So, like Robert, there is no reaction to the schizophrenic as a disowned piece, or like Ivan, it was not a projection but an internal peace that allows him to be at peace with all of the parts of life. So, there is no fear, only love, only peace. And, no need to distance himself from a schizophrenic. It is only love that allowed Ivan to write like that, nothing else, promise. Laughing, Jessica, as I know you know these things it makes it easier to write you. Sometimes I get lost. But any mention of Robert seems to touch the heart and then I am found ... Why this work? Why not? If not this than another, it doesn't matter anymore. Dan now makes perfect sense, nothing to do or undo ... In Africa there is a saying, "slowly, slowly turns the monkey." It is like the head in the mouth of the tiger ... :-) Love, ~ bo ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 In a message dated 11/07/2000 8:51:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, stevenmc writes: << I too have been diagnosed with mental illness, about a year ago (co-incidentaly about the time I learnt about Kundalini). It was a mild psychosis, the doctor said could be close to schizophrenia. Well know I view it as a blessing, all those hallucinations though scary and incredible at first have been incoporated into a well functioning spiritual system. >> This is why I wrote the posts on Uranus-Neptune, this energy is here and for the first time conscious in history, for many, not just Masters, accessible. It is a humble offering for greater understanding of now :-) Thank you for your letter Steve, there have been many such landing in my email box privately asking for looking at charts. One child is only eight and his parents have hospitalized him. Probably during the Renaissance, they'd have thought he was being visited by either Angels or the Devil depending on the visuals ... The astrological insight offers us a paradigmatic shift in understanding and coalescing and integrating these new energies, much like the greater understandings we have offered by physics, it is another path, one of metaphysics. Of course, once one is realized, no path is needed :-) Love and Light, Annette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 Gee I came into this discussion rather late, but here goes. I too have been diagnosed with mental illness, about a year ago (co-incidentaly about the time I learnt about Kundalini). It was a mild psychosis, the doctor said could be close to schizophrenia. Well know I view it as a blessing, all those hallucinations though scary and incredible at first have been incoporated into a well functioning spiritual system. On the topic of role playing. I am completely for it. I believe that it will come quite easily to the spritiually inclined. We are practicing techniques to expand our minds. With this expansion becomes the possiblity that we do not have to define ourselves as something that is tangible. With self realisation we realise we are not always who we would picture ourselves to be, and from there we realise that we are not bound by this self image. I abound in any oppurtunity to role play, I am at the point that within about 5 minutes of meeting a person I have decided a set rules of interaction with that person, interaction that gives me rapport with the person and allows us both the have fun. Well you could call it personality switching, but I think the core of a person is the way they think not the way they act. Deep down I always have the same base, I am knowledgable, spiritual, helpful. I just find different ways of exhibiting those traits. I look at it as being the different moods a person can have, can we be expected to have the same facial expresion every day? I think the closest you become to knowing your true expressive character is the character that emerges when you are alone. I find this character the most fascinating of all the characters I play, he is completely unpredictable, incredibly light hearted, inclined to dance around for no reason whatso ever and sing praises to all animals and objects. I too found your writing very beautiful, please write more.... I think what we are talking about is completely healthy, and useful. Well that's about it for now.... Steve Mclachlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2000 Report Share Posted November 7, 2000 - <Rainbolily > > > Laughing, Jessica, as I know you know these things it makes it easier > to write you. Sometimes I get lost. But any mention of Robert seems > to touch the heart and then I am found ... > > Why this work? Why not? If not this than another, it doesn't matter > anymore. Dan now makes perfect sense, nothing to do or undo ... > > In Africa there is a saying, "slowly, slowly turns the monkey." It is > like the head in the mouth of the tiger ... :-) > > Love, > ~ bo ~ > Hi Bo, Great to hear from you. As you say, "But any mention of Robert seems to touch the heart and then I'm found..." I 'feel' that. In resonance with you ; ) and by the way, thanks for the hieroglyphics, but to ~*~ what can I say??!!! LOL ; ) Love you, ~jess > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 ><< > I too have been diagnosed with mental illness, about a year ago > (co-incidentaly about the time I learnt about Kundalini). It was a mild > psychosis, the doctor said could be close to schizophrenia. Well know I > view it as a blessing, all those hallucinations though scary and incredible > at first have been incoporated into a well functioning spiritual system. > >> >This is why I wrote the posts on Uranus-Neptune, this energy >is here and for the first time conscious in history, for many, not >just Masters, accessible. It is a humble offering for greater >understanding of now :-) > >Thank you for your letter Steve, there have been many such >landing in my email box privately asking for looking at charts. One child >is only eight and his parents have hospitalized him. Probably >during the Renaissance, they'd have thought he was being >visited by either Angels or the Devil depending on the visuals ... > >The astrological insight offers us a paradigmatic shift in understanding >and coalescing and integrating these new energies, much like the >greater understandings we have offered by physics, it is another >path, one of metaphysics. Of course, once one is realized, no path >is needed :-) > >Love and Light, >Annette > It is rather intresting, there seems to be a sudden spiritual awakening in my peers in recent months, and alot of those have been through what has been percieved as a mental illness (there is still the truth of brain chemical imbalances, these I believe would be caused by the sudden shock of the new information and experiences). One friend of mine hit psychosis a little before me and began talking to god. He is now a devout christian. I recently met a girl who I now attend buddhist meditation with, she too was diagnosed with a psychosis and borderline schizophrenia, she is a strong spiritual channel and when I am around her I sometimes feel this spirit she claims has been clinging to her for some years (he doesn't seem to like me and will push me over sometimes). Many others around me have had sudden awakenings recently and are exhibiting the signs I know that look (and are) the symptoms of mental illness. I hope they will be able to control them quickly..... when drugs are involved it is much more difficult. What was said about the children born in that aligment I think I can believe to be true.... While I don't have much direct interaction with children that age, some of the largest energy levels I experience are from children of about 3-7 years old. I thought it was just that children were more inclined to be energetically active - can anyone clarify this? Well mental illness is definately an issue and challenge for any spiritualist I believe, but like all things it can invoke a sudden change of thinking that is necessary or perhaps it is the other way around.... I am starting to ramble so I'll cut it here. Steve Mclachlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 "It is rather intresting, there seems to be a sudden spiritual awakening in my peers in recent months... " Steve MclachlanIt this not the dew that the alchemist collects in the morning just as the sun is coming up on those wonderful flowers petals like the ones Mace is sendind us? Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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