SCHIZO TALK / Ivan's reply to Amanda

[Guest guest]

Hi Amanda,

 

My comments are inserted in your text.

 

Love,

 

Ivan.

______

 

, "mumble cat" <mumblecat@a...>

wrote:

 

Hi Ivan,

 

I find what you say about every human being being a collection of

often conflicting and seemingly contradicting moments of expression,

different moods and masks and roles, a very accurate and important

perception.

 

I'm sure most people here have made the same observation, but just to

be a bit chatty :

____

 

(Ivan): I like the chatty ones, who can be chatty for the fun of

being chatty...

____

 

(Amanda): As a kid, I used to be very puzzled and at times somewhat

upset at the different perceptions people had of each other and how

when others or myself talked about a person and compared notes with

each other, the descriptions would vary wildly, as if we were talking

about different people. It all depended of course on the mood and in

what situation the different observers had had a chance to observe

person X, whether in a job situation or as a private person or as a

parent. Gives some explanation to why a person can be a violent and

feared robber to someone and a loved child to another, and none of

the relaters can understand how the other can see the robber/child as

anything but the role that is perceived.

___

 

(I): That's one very important realization in life: that different

people will see you and describe you differently. The question that

should follow this realization is something like this, especially if

you (like most of us in our childhood) try to form an opinion about

yourself on the basis of other people's opinions:

 

Whose opinion is it, out of the whole wide variety of their differing

opinions and perceptions, that I am going to accept (or reject, if

you dare)?

____

 

(A): The lack of constancy in people's behavior,

used to create some problems in the form of frustration, as I was

wondering if there was any person in the world who was a true person,

one which was consistent in behavior and treated other people the

same, no matter who they were or in what relationships they occupied

to each other, and one which everyone said the same about, could

report the steady state of this person as either "she is a nice

person" or "she is an absolute idiot", no matter who you asked.

 

Needless to say, I never found such a person. The quest was

rather doomed from the get go. The only people who seemed to exhibit

more or less constant emotional characteristics were artificial

people, characters in books and films. I was too young to know the

difference (and similarity) between "person" and "persona". And

strove hard to be a "true person", a person with constant

characteristics, a person who would be constant on what she projected

of herself to the world.

__

 

(I): Me, too. For a very long time. Trying to be consistent in my

behaviour, holding on to the idea that I MUST be consistent, logical

and predictable to myself, for the sake of my own sanity and for the

sake others, and to be acceptable and lovable.

__

 

(A): This of course, turned out to be quite taxing and limiting and

after a while, when finding that it was possible to play different

roles, to relate to different people in different ways, and even to

have fun with roles in environments where this was allowed and

expected (role playing games) I of course had a field day in

exploring and expanding the notions of self and the facets of human

experience sometimes even switching between gender and ages.

___

 

(I): Experimenting with different roles, trying differnt roles "for

size and fit", stretching one's own limits and ego boundaries, and

other people's patience and tolerance... usually in teenage years,

but often well beyond...

___

 

(A): There is of course, with having a persona or more, always a risk

that the persona can mistake itself for the actor and this happens on

a very frequent basis.

 

However,

with awareness of the shifting and flexible persona as you mention,

the sensation that every human is capable of the same set of emotions

and ideas becomes increasingly closer. Thus, the saying "Nothing

human is a stranger to me" becomes an experience.

______

 

(I): moving closer to maturity...

_______

 

(A): And the experience of the non anchored persona that rooms every

human expression to the extent that a feeling of being many persons

in one and being able to switch between them can follow one even into

dreams, indeed confirming the old saying "I am... legion".

 

Thank you again for the introduction and for allowing me to blather

on about masks and personae.

 

Love,

 

Amanda (one woman army).

 

_______

 

 

(I): Hey, Amanda, you finished this chat a bit too quickly. Are you

perhaps leaving the really important stuff for later? Do you know

there is more and are shy to say so? - or you don't know there is

more (or less, depending on the way you look at it)?

 

Who or what is aware of the whole parade, or charade of personae?

Who is "deciding" which mask to wear for which occassion, which war

to wage and which to ignore?

Who is the general of your army?

Who are you, really, Amanda?

 

If you don't feel comfortable answering this question "in public",

feel free to write to me by e-mail at ivanf

 

and, if you wish, we can forward our exchange to anyone

you choose & trust for a "quality control inspection" of our e-mail,

to make sure that I am not trying to bullshit you or seduce you.

I have nothing to hide, but soem stuff is just not for everyone,

yet...

 

Ramana Maharshi did not waste his life asking this question.

There is an answer.

Some of us know the answer,

and although it is inexpressible in words,

some of us can come very close to expressing it than others.

 

Many are those who know,

but are too shy to admit they know.

How can they be of any help by being so shy, or silent about it?

 

Are you one of us yet?

If you are, say so, boldly - and that's that.

 

If are not, ask me, or someone more humble and less arrogant,

like Harsha, or Dan, or Greg, or White Wolf, or Mark,

or whom-so-ever you trust, understand

and believe that knows the answer/s.

If you really don't know, and are willing to know it,

just ask those who know, and be prepared to listen.

 

Nothing much to it at all,

as you probably already know, or suspect.

 

No big deal at all,

this one woman's army general that you are.

 

As Dan said recently:

the game to end all games is really no game at all

(or something similar).

 

Love,

 

Ivan.

 

 

 

On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:46:58 Ivan Frimmel wrote:

 

I am using the term schizophrenia as an

exaggerated metaphor for what is,in my opinion, the dualistic

predicament of almost every so-called "normal" individual - and to

emphasize the importance of clear awareness of our internal

contradictions, conflicts,uncertainties and unpredictability as an

integrating factor for all these dualities and multiplicities - and

the need for expressing our uniqueness, even downright "madness".