The Science of Enlightenment / Gill

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill,

 

Sorry for the delay in replying. As usual.

 

I've been quite busy for the last days, a friend had some problems with his web

site and ISP.

 

To continue our kicking around of ideas:

 

On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:30:57 Gill Collingwood wrote:

>It's an interesting question... are thoughts simply a product of the

>brain? If there is such a thing as a 'mental body' (or something

>similar), does it survive death?

 

There certainly is something that can be classified as the "mental body" or

"intellectual body" in the mindbody. This body is easiest to notice during a

purification, but we use it all the time.

 

The mental body seems to me to make up a large amount of the activities we

usually assign to the brain; logical reasoning, illogical reasoning (such as the

thinking content of dreams), mathematical calculations, computation of symbols

and allegories from language and all kinds of mind processes linked to the

ability to read and write and compute language.

 

Behavioral neurobiologists have done a lot of work on the various aspects of the

mental body and some of these aspects seem to be strongly linked to one or more

definite brain parts (I just checked some of my old texbooks on this.).

 

The mental body is one of the many aspects of manifestation, the emotional body

being another.

But it does not represent the true self.

In traditional spiritual sources, the mental body and the other bodies are often

depicted as different layers surrounding the core of the being, the Self. This

is a good depiction, as the bodies do feel like layers, and they surround the

Self.

 

A friend of mine uses a nice allegory: The various bodies are like the layers of

an onion. When you peel away one layer, another one appears. But sooner or

later, the last layer is removed and what is left then ? Just an empty space.

Even though there were many layers, they were held together by contact

with each other and between the layers were emptiness, also supporting the

structure. The center of the onion was also emptiness, but this was not seen

unless the last layer was removed.

 

The spiritual process mimics this peeling of the layers of the onion (there

aren't many layers), but instead of the layers being peeled away and discarded,

the layers are instead given back to the original source, or perhaps clearer,

made to vibrate in the same rate (harmony) as the original source, making the

layers invisible and the source visible for itself to itself.

 

As Mark mentioned, the Bardo Thodol describes that the various bodies dissolve

after death and give way to the light that is the true core of the mindbody.

 

Thus, it is my belief that the mental body does not survive this dissolution.

 

To your other question: can there be thoughts without the brain, my view is that

even when parts of the brain which reasons are not functioning or functioning in

a non normal way, there can be still be impressions and simple calculation such

as recall of memory. And the base mind, the sensation of being, is always there,

including in dreams.

 

However, wether there can be any kind of thinking, any kind of mind processes,

or even The Base Presence of I AM when the brain as an organ stops functioning

and starts dissolving physically, I feel is highly uncertain (it can when the

heart stops, though).

(I know this goes against the standard advaitin view, but I remain unconvinced

as of yet.)

>The question that comes to my mind is, how much is broken down

>at death, and how much kind of sticks together? Obviously the

>body breaks down, but *is* the ego simply a product of the mind

>and body?

 

My personal views on this is that /everything/ but The Light dissolves, because

in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, everything else but The Light is seen and known to be

inessential, including the emotional body, the mental body etc etc. This is why

the first NS seems in hindsight to be life altering and yet there is something

very familiar about it. I strongly believe the dissolution process of death is

the same, revealing that the layers surrounding the true self are but

illusonary.

 

I also believe the ego, as the choosing and averting mind, is a product of the

mind and the body. I am convinced it is so.

This is not to say that the ego does not have a function, because it had, and

that was to protect the body for immediate survival. I came across a biological

theory on this today and will post this theory here in a little time. But the

control afforded to the ego got out of hand and the ego thought itself both the

source and purpose of its own existence. Or maybe that was too harshly put ?

>Well, one could view it as something which will happen sooner or

>later anyway. Even with reincarnation, it's going to happen in the

>end. :-)

 

Oh yeah, it is always there, and if it is not seen, we are moving closer to it

every moment of our lives. Even when it seems we are very far away from Truth,

we are less than a millimeter away from it.

>Me too! I wonder whether he's on the list?

 

It doesn't look as if he is, unfortunately, or I guess we would have heard from

him.

 

Say hello to Rob from me.

 

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

 

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