Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:44:37 Mark Otter wrote: >I don't think that cloning humans or making the average age of death >exceed 100 are breakthroughs. No, you might just need to find out how to do animal organ transplants effectively for that to happen. Or, yes, do human cloning for organ harvesting. Cloning is not technically difficult. But I do think human cloning is not a good idea. >I do think that curing cancer might be >one, but on the other hand, what will replace it as a means of death? Oh, there will always be some. When looking at evolution and the principles of dynamics of population regulation, it is ridiculous to watch the human endeavor to find a cure for death. It's just another waste of energy and more destruction of environment to obtain this energy. >I think a real breakthrough would be for humans to learn to accept death >as part of life, and to learn to let go gracefully. Whether that happens >through a waking up to our true identities (wow that would be great!), >or just through an acknowledgement that if we want children, we need to >get out of the way for them - either way, death needs to come out of the >closet just as birth did a generation or so ago. I very much agree on that. Death is the last big taboo in our society. Sex is no longer that. The fear of the body is a driving force in much of our culture. Just look at the desire to clone humans for organ donation and prolonging of life span. >So, I'm crazy, but I think buying Mark a boat >would be more helpful than some of the choices. I agree with you on that. All of humanity needs a nice little love boat. >What a copout!!!! Tune in, cop out, and live happily ever after. >hey, I can train you if you want... come to the dark >side... (can you hear me breathing like Darth Vader? LOL ! Did my narrow minded, short, fanatical comments above convince you of my dark side potential ? I never liked that Skywalker guy anyway. He had bad hair. OK, Boba Fett was cool, but you never saw his hair. >I'm glad. I understand that bright lights (especially lots of those >plant grow lights that come reasonably close to mimicking the sun's >spectrum) can help dispell SAD. I think it's true. Alternatively, >visiting Jan might help. I hear he has a new recipe involving chocolate >and mice (or was it moles? no, that's Mexican food.. maybe it was >mousse, no I'm pretty sure it's mice. one of those m words.. men? LOL ! Chocolate, mice and men ? >Well, I was fine until you suggested that I'm food (maybe it's too hot >in your kitchen too). Now I'm a quivering mass of fear and loathing. >(although even that's kinda fun once you let go and decide to enjoy >it...) ROTFL ! Ha ha ha ha ! This made my morning, Mark, thanks. "Just relax, this won't hurt at all" >No, I've never learned how to save money. Instead, I've been begging >most vociferously, annoying the neighbors, etc for one. (mainly on >NDS.) I think Jerry does need to get that fund /business idea going. What about starting an e-publishing business ? Love, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 Hi Amanda, I'm late as usual - gotta rush off to a meeting after hastily constructing a poster and teaching a lab today, so this is brief, but I wanted to make just a few comments... mumble cat wrote: > > On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 16:44:37 Mark Otter wrote: > > >I don't think that cloning humans or making the average age of death > >exceed 100 are breakthroughs. > > No, you might just need to find out how to do animal organ transplants > effectively for that to happen. > Or, yes, do human cloning for organ harvesting. > > Cloning is not technically difficult. > But I do think human cloning is not a good idea. > That's the point. I don't consider these two goals "breakthroughs" not because they are either easy or impossible, but because I think they are simply bad ideas. They are to my mind the natural absurdities that arise when we single mindedly focus on improving the way things are rather than appreciating the way things are. (not that all attempts to improve things are misguided, I certainly am in favor of finding cures for devastating diseases and am not arguing against finding a cure for cancer, I just want to know if the death that replaces a death by cancer will be even more painful or not. Cancer sucks, but I think modern cancer treatment may suck every bit as much. > > >I do think that curing cancer might be > >one, but on the other hand, what will replace it as a means of death? > > Oh, there will always be some. If I understand the statistics correctly, for many people today, cancer has replaced a heart attack at an earlier age. I'd rather have the heart attack and die quickly than look forward to months, maybe years of chemotherapy, radiation, and the eventual failure of those invasive and by themselves painful treatments. Hence the question of what death replaces the solved problem of cancer. Is it Alzheimer's or stroke? Hmmmm.... > > > When looking at evolution and the principles of dynamics of population > regulation, it is ridiculous to watch the human endeavor to find a > cure for death. > It's just another waste of energy and more destruction of environment > to obtain this energy. Absolutely! > > > >I think a real breakthrough would be for humans to learn to accept > death > >as part of life, and to learn to let go gracefully. Whether that > happens > >through a waking up to our true identities (wow that would be > great!), > >or just through an acknowledgement that if we want children, we need > to > >get out of the way for them - either way, death needs to come out of > the > >closet just as birth did a generation or so ago. > > I very much agree on that. > > Death is the last big taboo in our society. > > Sex is no longer that. Well, I think it's in transition. It's come out of the closet for sure, but the "tabooness" (hey, I coined a new word today) still drives a lot of weird behavior. It's not considered natural by the majority of society yet, or it wouldn't sell so much merchandise, or be the focal point of so much entertainment (I think). > > > The fear of the body is a driving force in much of our culture. Just > look at the desire to clone humans for organ donation and prolonging > of life span. > > >So, I'm crazy, but I think buying Mark a boat > >would be more helpful than some of the choices. > > I agree with you on that. All of humanity needs a nice little > love boat. Think I'm gonna share, huh? Okay, it's byodc. bring your own deck chair. > > > >What a copout!!!! > > Tune in, cop out, and live happily ever after. > > >hey, I can train you if you want... come to the dark > >side... (can you hear me breathing like Darth Vader? > > LOL ! Did my narrow minded, short, fanatical comments above > convince you of my dark side potential ? No, I came by my dark side by natural means. (huh?) > > I never liked that Skywalker guy anyway. He had bad hair. OK, Boba > Fett was cool, but you never saw his hair. > > >I'm glad. I understand that bright lights (especially lots of those > >plant grow lights that come reasonably close to mimicking the sun's > >spectrum) can help dispell SAD. I think it's true. Alternatively, > >visiting Jan might help. I hear he has a new recipe involving > chocolate > >and mice (or was it moles? no, that's Mexican food.. maybe it was > >mousse, no I'm pretty sure it's mice. one of those m words.. men? > > LOL ! Chocolate, mice and men ? > > >Well, I was fine until you suggested that I'm food (maybe it's too > hot > >in your kitchen too). Now I'm a quivering mass of fear and loathing. > > >(although even that's kinda fun once you let go and decide to enjoy > >it...) > > ROTFL ! Ha ha ha ha ! This made my morning, Mark, thanks. > > "Just relax, this won't hurt at all" There you go talking about yourself again... (but enough about me, what do YOU think of me?) > > > >No, I've never learned how to save money. Instead, I've been begging > > >most vociferously, annoying the neighbors, etc for one. (mainly on > >NDS.) > > I think Jerry does need to get that fund /business idea going. First things first! I think Jerry should be selling his body while it still have fiduciary value... okay, I'd better shut up and go to work now. Love, Mark > > > What about starting an e-publishing business ? > > > Love, > > Amanda. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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