Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Dennis Waite [dwaite] In the same way, once realisation is attained, the scripture is no longer needed. If realisation has indeed taken place in a particular body-mind mechanism, where is the need to go to the Vedas or any other pramaaNa for verification? Surely only the ego could want to check to see if the ‘state’ experienced corresponds with a description given in the Vedas? If there is genuine realisation, there would no longer be any ego or state. There can be no need to go and look to check in which direction the finger is pointing if he is now looking directly at the moon himself. Dennis ____________ Well put Dennis and you raise an important issue and I will pass this on to HarshaSatsanga as well. Confirmation is relevant for those who are in the "in-between" stage. We can see this in the conversation between Sri Ramana and Kunju Swami. When Kunju Swami experienced the Self in the presence of the Sage, he was satisfied and went home. He was, however, unable to become steady in his knowledge. Upon going back to Arunachala, he asked to have his doubts clarified. I believe Sri Ramana asked Kunju Swami to get the scripture "Kaivalya Navneeta" from the shelf and read a particular verse which means that the experience of the Self, even when gained once, can be lost due to the strength of vasanas (latent tendencies). To steady oneself in the Supreme Knowledge one has to hear the truth again and again from the Guru and reflect on it and remain aware of it holding on to it. When the vasanas have substantially thinned out, Self-Awareness dominates and no room is left for doubt, thoughts, questions, etc. As Ramana Maharshi has stated again and again, while Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi gives Direct Knowledge in Total Clarity of The Self, the latent tendencies will at times appear to draw the mind of the Yogi out again. Therefore, the Sage of Arunachala has said that the aim should be to become aware fundamentally of one's true primal state. This is the easy and natural state our sages refer to as Sahaj Samadhi. Here the question of the mind being drawn out of its source does not exist at all and therefore all talk about confirmation of Self etc., is moot. Self is the Self. It is beyond all concepts and scriptures. The Guru disappears in the Self. Self Refers to It Self as Pure Consciousness That Is Whole. It Reveals It Self Continuously as It Is. Once Realized, who remains to confirm or deny it? Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Thanks Harsha and Dennis for your enlightening exchange. I am still around, reading all posts daily, but nothing much to add to the discussion. One can learn a lot just by listening and reading. Love, Ivan. ______________________ , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > Dennis Waite [dwaite@d...] > > In the same way, once realisation is attained, the scripture is no longer > needed. If realisation has indeed taken place in a particular body- mind > mechanism, where is the need to go to the Vedas or any other pramaaNa for > verification? Surely only the ego could want to check to see if the `state' > experienced corresponds with a description given in the Vedas? If there is > genuine realisation, there would no longer be any ego or state. > > There can be no need to go and look to check in which direction the finger > is pointing if he is now looking directly at the moon himself. > > Dennis > ____________ > Well put Dennis and you raise an important issue and I will pass this on to > HarshaSatsanga as well. > > Confirmation is relevant for those who are in the "in-between" stage. We can > see this in the conversation between Sri Ramana and Kunju Swami. When Kunju > Swami experienced the Self in the presence of the Sage, he was satisfied and > went home. He was, however, unable to become steady in his knowledge. Upon > going back to Arunachala, he asked to have his doubts clarified. I believe > Sri Ramana asked Kunju Swami to get the scripture "Kaivalya Navneeta" from > the shelf and read a particular verse which means that the experience of the > Self, even when gained once, can be lost due to the strength of vasanas > (latent tendencies). To steady oneself in the Supreme Knowledge one has to > hear the truth again and again from the Guru and reflect on it and remain > aware of it holding on to it. When the vasanas have substantially thinned > out, Self-Awareness dominates and no room is left for doubt, thoughts, > questions, etc. > > As Ramana Maharshi has stated again and again, while Kevala Nirvikalpa > Samadhi gives Direct Knowledge in Total Clarity of The Self, the latent > tendencies will at times appear to draw the mind of the Yogi out again. > Therefore, the Sage of Arunachala has said that the aim should be to become > aware fundamentally of one's true primal state. This is the easy and natural > state our sages refer to as Sahaj Samadhi. Here the question of the mind > being drawn out of its source does not exist at all and therefore all talk > about confirmation of Self etc., is moot. Self is the Self. It is beyond all > concepts and scriptures. The Guru disappears in the Self. Self Refers to It > Self as Pure Consciousness That Is Whole. It Reveals It Self Continuously as > It Is. Once Realized, who remains to confirm or deny it? > > Love to all > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2000 Report Share Posted December 10, 2000 Hi Dennis and Harsha, Also, Ramana Maharshi enjoyed reading scripture all his life and was sometimes deeply emotionally moved, according to biographers. There is joy of recognition in the words and stories. Verses and passages open according to the understanding of the reader. love, andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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