Interpretation

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys,

 

As a rule, one isn't aware that interpretation is taking place

and unless aware of it, perception will be inextricably mixed with interpretation.

Mona Lisa is just smiling - no one knows the reason for her smile - enlightenment?

It is whispered that during that era, constipation was a serious problem...

The little poem has the flavor of devotion..

But to whom? Or is it just a poetic description of ......

That is the question, unless...

 

 

Thy touch is warm, a gentle breeze

Thy breath does color evening's sky

Thou art a sheer delight

 

Thy whisper is a tempting tease

Although thee can't be seen

Thou warmest me this very night

 

Please don't depart

But stay a while

Thy leaving always breaks my heart

 

Jan

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

 

The problem with this song/poem is that whoever copied it forgot to copy

the chorus.

The chorus is: "in bed" which is to be sung at the end of every line

where indicated with an asterisk *

 

 

Thy touch is warm, a gentle breeze *

Thy breath does color evening's sky

Thou art a sheer delight *

 

Thy whisper is a tempting tease *

Although thee can't be seen

Thou warmest me this very night *

 

Please don't depart

But stay a while *

Thy leaving always breaks my heart *

 

Love,

Wim *

:-)

[Guest guest]

On 12/12/00 at 7:15 PM Wim Borsboom wrote:

 

ºDear Jan,

º

ºThe problem with this song/poem is that whoever copied it forgot to copy

ºthe chorus.

ºThe chorus is: "in bed" which is to be sung at the end of every line

ºwhere indicated with an asterisk *

º

º

ºThy touch is warm, a gentle breeze *

ºThy breath does color evening's sky

ºThou art a sheer delight *

º

ºThy whisper is a tempting tease *

ºAlthough thee can't be seen

ºThou warmest me this very night *

º

ºPlease don't depart

ºBut stay a while *

ºThy leaving always breaks my heart *

º

ºLove,

ºWim *

º:-)

 

That's exactly what I meant Wim, thanks for responding - I wonder if there are

more responses and will wait, before posting the (purposely omitted) last verse

:>)

 

Love,

Jan

[Guest guest]

Who would have guessed the little poem could end like it does?

Does that give any clue who or what initiated it, or if such a

suggestion even applies?

 

Thy touch is warm, a gentle breeze Thy breath does color evening's sky Thou art a sheer delight

 

Thy whisper is a tempting tease Although thee can't be seen Thou warmest me this very night

 

Please don't depart But stay a while Thy leaving always breaks my heart

 

Jan

 

Apart from that, thou art a scorchWhen blowing hard, an evil torchMy

harvest going down the drainA full year's labor is in vain

 

And then that dust, the dreaded, choking "ahh" Oh devil's desert wind, Calima*

 

+angry tomato-farmer+

 

*pronounced as "kaleema", "a" as in "ma"

 

What is pleasant from one perspective,can be devastating from another.

Pleasant and devastating being the interpretations,

they don't change the hot wind from

the desert, nor its effects, one single bit...

 

So how to read things like:

 

"life is perfect"

"sentient life is suffering"

"there are no others"

"there is only Love"

"life without love is worthless"

"nothing is happening"

 

* Just as interpretations *

Especially when they resonate

they could add to

"how beautifully pictured.. So I was right after all" ...

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

- an interpretation of "the worst kind" -

which itself is

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

 

Good thing that you started this thread on 'interpretation'.

 

You wrote:

> "life is perfect"

> "sentient life is suffering"

> "there are no others"

> "there is only Love"

> "life without love is worthless"

> "nothing is happening"

 

Notice that none of these sentences contain concrete nouns or verbs

which causes the uncertainty of their meaning, their conceptuality.

 

Again, the person who copied these sentences forgot to add the chorus

which again is: "in bed."

 

So it goes:

 

"life is perfect in bed"

"sentient life is suffering in bed"

"there are no others in bed"

"there is only Love in bed"

"life without love is worthless in bed"

"nothing is happening in bed"

 

Of course the "in bed" part is in jest. But it is to show that we need

to use a preposition and a concrete noun to move away from the purely

conceptual. Instead of concrete nouns and prepositions we can also use

concrete verbs and adverbs to overcome the interpretative 'second

guessing game'. So we need to notice that pretty well all sentences that

have no concrete noun or concrete verb (whether accompanied by

prepositions and adverbs (of time) or not) are open to interpretation

and therefore misunderstanding. As far as language goes (the art of

making oneself understood) it is very imprecise. Clumsy actually,

although it may appear artsy. Precise language uses concrete language,

to do with reality. Reality is the environment of real things, 'res'

(Latin) ='thing'. Concrete nouns point to objects with mass or weight,

or at least measurable dimensions. Concrete verbs point to actions that

take measurable time, that happen in a concrete location.

When concreteness is missing we are lead into 'second guessing'. This is

how most people converse. When we start using more concrete verbs and

nouns in our language we will notice that we will be living more and

more in the here and now. The interpretive part of life, the elusiveness

will disappear.

Yes, language is power. Enlightened beings do not beat around the bush,

they go right into the bush and notice that there are no ghosts lurking

there.

Haiku poetry shows that concreteness.

 

Love,

Wim

 

PS. Try this next time you interprete chinese fortune cooky sayings,

just add "in bed" and you will have more fun too "in ..."

Nothing new to this idea, it came to me via my son, who got it from a

friend of his.

[Guest guest]

On 12/13/00 at 9:25 PM Wim Borsboom wrote:

 

ºDear Jan,

º

ºGood thing that you started this thread on 'interpretation'.

º

ºYou wrote:

º

º> "life is perfect"

º> "sentient life is suffering"

º> "there are no others"

º> "there is only Love"

º> "life without love is worthless"

º> "nothing is happening"

º

ºNotice that none of these sentences contain concrete nouns or verbs

ºwhich causes the uncertainty of their meaning, their conceptuality.

 

Of course - these statements leave no doubt whatsoever so I'll take out a few.

"life is perfect" refers to a fully awakened one, as such a one cannot feel

"body"

anymore and consequently, all emotions referring to it no longer apply either.

So for such a one, life IS perfect.

 

Does it come as a surprise that "there are no others" falls in the same

category?

Didn't you know that, Wim?

If not, you were interpreting - that is the "default" of the mind, one is

unaware of.

Only +knowing+ overrides automated interpretation.

 

º

ºAgain, the person who copied these sentences forgot to add the chorus

ºwhich again is: "in bed."

 

A fascination with the bed is taking place?

Why not add a little rhyme...

º

ºSo it goes:

º

º"life is perfect in bed"

 

Except when that big spider is met

 

º"sentient life is suffering in bed"

 

but not, when wearing a hat

 

º"there are no others in bed"

 

except for that fat one, dead

 

º"there is only Love in bed"

 

but with that spider, it is dread

 

º"life without love is worthless in bed"

 

except when Yama is met

 

º"nothing is happening in bed"

 

not even when you're dead

 

 

º

ºOf course the "in bed" part is in jest. But it is to show that we need

ºto use a preposition and a concrete noun to move away from the purely

ºconceptual.

 

Ah, more words to make things "clear"? The majority of perception is conceptual,

mind fills in what isn't perceived.

 

Instead of concrete nouns and prepositions we can also use

ºconcrete verbs and adverbs to overcome the interpretative 'second

ºguessing game'.

 

Why stop at just two - can't there be a third, fourth etc. guessing game?

 

So we need to notice that pretty well all sentences that

ºhave no concrete noun or concrete verb (whether accompanied by

ºprepositions and adverbs (of time) or not) are open to interpretation

ºand therefore misunderstanding.

 

The simplification that when talking about some quinonone, it is supposed to

taste bitter? Actually it does...

Bitter may be the word used but what that means for a reader will differ - some

dislike that taste.

So the misunderstanding continues, when bitterness is used to describe for

instance, feelings.

 

As far as language goes (the art of

ºmaking oneself understood) it is very imprecise. Clumsy actually,

ºalthough it may appear artsy.

 

Clumsy indeed and an art - clever clumsiness being THE art - to evoke strong

feelings, not necessarily those of the artist.

Music is a great example: For many Westerners solemn music (like used at

funerals)

has to be slow but there is African music for that purpose, that would sound

like dance music.

 

ºPrecise language uses concrete language,

ºto do with reality. Reality is the environment of real things, 'res'

º(Latin) ='thing'. Concrete nouns point to objects with mass or weight,

ºor at least measurable dimensions. Concrete verbs point to actions that

ºtake measurable time, that happen in a concrete location.

 

Only when it concerns scientific language;

than the description is clear in the sense that experiments/observations

have to be repeated by using that description. Unless measured with

instruments, feelings have no use in science, whereas "outside" science

that is quite different.

 

ºWhen concreteness is missing we are lead into 'second guessing'. This is

ºhow most people converse. When we start using more concrete verbs and

ºnouns in our language we will notice that we will be living more and

ºmore in the here and now. The interpretive part of life, the elusiveness

ºwill disappear.

 

Again, why leave things at "second" guessing...

Sense perception itself is an interpretation - a so called "hard wired" one -

the mind fills in the gaps and simulates a perceptual continuity that does not

exist -

there has been a nice article in New Scientist elaborating on just this.

And that was of course the gist of the thread - not to put the perceptual border

a few yards further away, or more precise -- out of ~~~my~~~~ sight --

But to put it out of sight entirely.

 

 

ºYes, language is power. Enlightened beings do not beat around the bush,

ºthey go right into the bush and notice that there are no ghosts lurking

ºthere.

ºHaiku poetry shows that concreteness.

 

A concreteness that does does not exist - it is a 100% interpretation

with the illusion that it is clear, because there is neither room for questions

nor for comments.

It conveys nothing but what already is "in the mind" as "interpreted already".

Mind is power, as John Woodroffe showed in several books with titles like "Mind

as Power".

"At best", language is a derivative.

º

ºLove,

ºWim

º

ºPS. Try this next time you interprete chinese fortune cooky sayings,

ºjust add "in bed" and you will have more fun too "in ..."

ºNothing new to this idea, it came to me via my son, who got it from a

ºfriend of his.

 

If the number of times, a noun is used, is a measure with one's fascination with

it,

you made yourself perfectly clear Wim. Happy Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz )

 

Love,

Jan