Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 In a message dated 12/13/00 4:50:46 AM Mountain Standard Time, JB789 writes: << I do not quite know how to formulate my question,.. but perhaps 'what's all this, .. or what was the point of that,.. that passed away in a flash ?!'. >> I'm not sure how to formulate an answer to your question (which has been mine, also) except to speak the same question in other ways, with hopes of sinking ever deeper into truth. It does seem to me that every minute of our lives, even the shameful ones, needs to be honored as a movement of the spark of God. Memory changes constantly as new events are assimilated and sometimes you can see how all events converge to bring you to this time. Each little awakening, each little jump in consciousness that you experience, is holy and a reflection of the divine movement. In a way, a decision to be a little more open on March 19, 1968 is just as important as a full-blown satori on December 13, 2000. Our failings and recoveries and learnings are the fuel that runs the universe. Nothing is lost and nothing is without meaning. More and more frequently, I see my life as God does, a remarkable, complex, and moving tangle of human emotion, desire, and love. The metaphor is stale, but you know how you can love and root for a character in a movie or book? You can feel this way about yourself, too (as we do when we are identified with divinity), but it requires that you relinquish shame and honor yourself for all the effort. Being a human being is no easy task. If you can forgive and love yourself from a more impersonal place (but no less tender), you can see that all there was was God, anyway. Love, Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 Hi I do not quite know how to formulate my question,.. but perhaps 'what's all this, .. or what was the point of that,.. that passed away in a flash ?!'. To clarify this question, I'll have to use a life-story. If you consider personal life-stories, as mere indulgence in ego- glorification or self-pity and look upon them with detachement and as worthless, then perhaps it would be good to inform you that it would probably be best, that you skip the rest. After the death of my ex-wife, 1 month ago, at the invitation of her sister, I was offered to look thru some of her things and take some, if I so wished. She(her sister) also gave me a bag with various things, which, upon coming home, I found to be many pictures taken during our 25 years' firendship and some letters(from me), which apparently my ex-wife thought them to be significant enough, to be kept. The contents of the letters, written 25 years ago, had a somewhat shocking effect. I was surprized by my indulgence in verbalization. My vocabulary was very rich indeed, compared to my present one. The content itself was quite horrifying. A mixture of 'love' with lots of teasing bordering on sarcasm, ill intentions to hurt her, manipulations of words .. much being infused with conceptual knowledge of 'self-knowing, spirituality' used as a power-tool in relating, and a certain amount of gross insults of a rather vicious type. All this, not a preety picture to look at, under the present circumstances. That certainly, was not 'love'. (At least, not the kind that I've felt for her during the last some years... where just by being, without demands, sharing life-Presence, would be enough.) It was a movement in ego-survival, pleasure, insecurity and all that wrapped in a nice and arrogant and head-banging/heart- stabbing, 'spiritual' jargon. And now I got the feedBack. And I wonder whether I have really changed.. Looking at the picutures, I was wondering(about JB) ..'Who was That, and Who is This gray-haired with bigger belly, now ?'.. And who was that slim and smiling pretty person..? .. have I ever really known/met her ?.. And who was the bloated-body (due to the medicine she got, against cancer brain-pains ?) whom I've seen during the last few weeks of her life ? Some of the pictures, had parts cut off,.. in those pictures of her,.. I noticed my arm around her shoulder, but I, was missing. I suddenly was shocked into remembering that, it was I, who has done the cutting,.. out of anger at the time of separation, 10 years ago. And now I got the feedback. What was all that ?! Whatever it was, it has disappeared. _Everything_ is apparently, slowly but surely and irreversibly, Devoured.. by time. Everything.. withers away ! When one looks at a life fragment, such as the above, it generates a certain insecurity, .. insecurity in the tradition of worshiping this 'me and mine'. There seems to be No way, to Secure Anything. What is really the point at using such tremendous amounts of energy, attempting to do so ? Everytime, a near one or even an acquaintance has died, the mirror seems always to be stating: '..you have missed the mark.. again,.. your priorities have been rather faulty, have'nt they..again,.. you have not really loved, have you,.. _again_ ?' So, -What do we actually have ? Perhaps only this moment, and the Mystery of all that is being displayed before our eyes,.. at this moment, only. And the possibility to love. Without that, life is a flash of a desert populated by floating-by zombies, whom the I-zombie turns into objects of I-meditation and kicking/grabbing and survival... ... but which zombies, keep on evaporating and disappearing into the heat of the sun.. perhaps with the exception of the I-zombie, who believes in its immortality... and keeps on being reborn, again and again. jb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 On 12/13/00 at 11:43 AM J B wrote: ºHi º ºI do not quite know how to formulate my question,.. but ºperhaps 'what's all this, .. or what was the point of that,.. that ºpassed away in a flash ?!'. º ºTo clarify this question, I'll have to use a life-story. ºIf you consider personal life-stories, as mere indulgence in ego- ºglorification or self-pity and look upon them with detachement and as ºworthless, then perhaps it would be good to inform you that it would ºprobably be best, that you skip the rest. Dear JB, considering life-stories as indulgence or so, would mean the story would have been interpreted even before reading... But that is exactly what does happen with most experiences: no way to to discriminate between perception and interpretation. And the life-story reflects this too: interpretation being based on the memory of experiences, thereby changing the interpretation for the "next occurrence", without being aware of the process. This is how things like "grudges" are built up - the nasties that poison the lives of many. The question that could matter is, knowing the "how" of it now, 1. could that mechanism continue to function? 2. does it open a "window" to "make up for" events that were caused by not knowing the above? [snipped the story for the sake of digest-rs] ºSo, -What do we actually have ? ºPerhaps only this moment, and the Mystery of all that is being ºdisplayed before our eyes,.. at this moment, only. ºAnd the possibility to love. Yes, what does one have? What one does have, one does lose, what "remains" is oneself, "stripped" of seemingly arising and subsiding phenomena... What is love without "something" to be loved? What "remains" is Love, but what use of naming it when there is nothing else? Awareness will do just as well but doesn't raise the expectation, love does. º ºWithout that, life is a flash of a desert ºpopulated by floating-by zombies, whom ºthe I-zombie turns into objects of ºI-meditation and kicking/grabbing and survival... º.. but which zombies, keep on evaporating and disappearing ºinto the heat of the sun.. ºperhaps with the exception of the I-zombie, who believes in ºits immortality... ºand keeps on being reborn, ºagain and again. º ºjb. Once caught in the trap of interpretation, interpretation will lead a "life on its own". That is, a speck of dust isn't seen as a speck of dust but with the entire history regarding experiences with dust - breathing in dust, dust in the eyes, dust obliterating sight, dust in food and the sound of sand being grinded by molars. And all this phantasmagoria just because of a speck of dust. Love, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 Dear JB, This is Gloria Greco, I thought I would come on line for a while and participate with all of my dear friends from Harsha's list. What a lovely thing you shared here about you and your x-wife. What I take from this is how much more aware you are now and also what a gift this was to be able to look back into a chapter of your own frequency which says all doesn't it? This is the illusionary self...one you now directly confront so that the illusion is exposed which also allows you to enter into union with your True Self. Don't give way to that shadow who wants to manipulate you and steal your soul fire, this is always there waiting to happen, but in truth you know to much to go there. You could not have see this if you were not strictly witnessing your own state of affairs in terms of your intention and soul purpose. The fact that you could see and feel and share...is a huge step in humility, acceptance, and consciousness. Obviously duality is still very much a part of your experience but you know what that is perfect as well, just witness it all and be eternally greatful that your higher self is giving you such precious jewels as revelation. You are right...the only thing of any significance is this very second. In this you are whole...in union, going anywhere else will stimulate the illusion...but still how perfect in your processing. Processing and knowing, acceptance, soul intention, Divine Will, these are the tools used to become that which you are. In the last paragraph you are asking who is this thin person in the photo's and who is this person who he is with, and then comparing to now, can you not see that you are looking at the illusion. All of that is the illusion and fake front, what is real...is that which knows and yet goes on playing the part in the drama. That part of you is causing you to question, to inquire, this is where it is taking you. Follow your questions inside, go deep into the heart center, not in the front but deep deep down into that which is the True Self...follow your questions inside, let it lead you to truth. Gloria J B wrote: > Hi > > I do not quite know how to formulate my question,.. but > perhaps 'what's all this, .. or what was the point of that,.. that > passed away in a flash ?!'. > > To clarify this question, I'll have to use a life-story. > If you consider personal life-stories, as mere indulgence in ego- > glorification or self-pity and look upon them with detachement and as > worthless, then perhaps it would be good to inform you that it would > probably be best, that you skip the rest. > > > After the death of my ex-wife, 1 month ago, at the invitation of her > sister, I was offered to look thru some of her things and take some, > if I so wished. She(her sister) also gave me a bag with various > things, which, upon coming home, I found to be many pictures taken > during our 25 years' firendship and some letters(from me), which > apparently my ex-wife thought them to be significant enough, to be > kept. > > The contents of the letters, written 25 years ago, had a somewhat > shocking effect. > I was surprized by my indulgence in verbalization. My vocabulary was > very rich indeed, compared to my present one. > The content itself was quite horrifying. A mixture of 'love' with > lots of teasing bordering on sarcasm, ill intentions to hurt her, > manipulations of words .. much being infused with conceptual > knowledge of 'self-knowing, spirituality' used as a power-tool in > relating, and a certain amount of gross insults of a rather vicious > type. > All this, not a preety picture to look at, under the present > circumstances. > That certainly, was not 'love'. > (At least, not the kind that I've felt for her during the last some > years... where just by being, without demands, sharing life-Presence, > would be enough.) > It was a movement in ego-survival, pleasure, insecurity and all that > wrapped in a nice and arrogant and head-banging/heart- > stabbing, 'spiritual' jargon. > > And now I got the feedBack. > And I wonder whether I have really changed.. > > Looking at the picutures, I was wondering(about JB) ..'Who was That, > and Who is This gray-haired with bigger belly, now ?'.. > And who was that slim and smiling pretty person..? .. have I ever > really known/met her ?.. > And who was the bloated-body (due to the medicine she got, against > cancer brain-pains ?) > whom I've seen during the last few weeks of her life ? > Some of the pictures, had parts cut off,.. in those pictures of > her,.. I noticed my arm around her shoulder, but I, was missing. I > suddenly was shocked into remembering that, it was I, who has done > the cutting,.. out of anger at the time of separation, 10 years ago. > > And now I got the feedback. > > What was all that ?! > Whatever it was, it has disappeared. > > _Everything_ is apparently, slowly but surely and irreversibly, > Devoured.. by time. > Everything.. withers away ! > > When one looks at a life fragment, such as the above, it generates a > certain insecurity, .. > insecurity in the tradition of worshiping this 'me and mine'. > There seems to be No way, to Secure Anything. > What is really the point at using such tremendous amounts of energy, > attempting to do so ? > > Everytime, a near one or even an acquaintance has died, the mirror > seems always to be stating: > '..you have missed the mark.. again,.. > your priorities have been rather faulty, have'nt they..again,.. > you have not really loved, have you,.. > _again_ ?' > > So, -What do we actually have ? > Perhaps only this moment, and the Mystery of all that is being > displayed before our eyes,.. at this moment, only. > And the possibility to love. > > Without that, life is a flash of a desert > populated by floating-by zombies, whom > the I-zombie turns into objects of > I-meditation and kicking/grabbing and survival... > .. but which zombies, keep on evaporating and disappearing > into the heat of the sun.. > perhaps with the exception of the I-zombie, who believes in > its immortality... > and keeps on being reborn, > again and again. > > jb. > > > > // > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. -- Enter The Silence to know God ... Accept life as the teacher Gloria Joy Greco dennisgloria visit my homepage & internet retreat at: http://www7.50megs.com/gloria/ Sponsors page http://www7.50megs.com/gloria/Sponsors.htm Dennis homepage: http://www.homebusiness.to/energydreg/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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