Guest guest Posted January 14, 2001 Report Share Posted January 14, 2001 Hi Everyone (Welcome back Harsha), l just watched a video yesterday about the controversy involving the Dalai Lama 's banning among Gelukpas of the worship of the protector deity Dorje Shugden and have been deeply saddened ever since. This has been going on for several years now, but l didn't recall anything about it until now that it has come to indirectly involve me. lt's only now that l realize that the monks who have a monastery in my upstairs are among the minority of Tibetans who have refused to follow the DL's orders and continue to worship this deity. A local dragon lady who wanted the monks in her home and was refused has gone to the media here to try to discredit them by broadcasting their split with the DL over Dorje Shugden. The monks then gave me the video to watch after l pressed them for more info about it. The video was made by a team of Swiss reporters who traveled to lndia recently to interview the DL, as well as others involved. l was shocked by what l saw. The DL's supporters have been waging a campaign of terror across lndia against Shugden worshippers, committing acts of violence and mayhem, threatening peoples' lives and destroying their homes. Tibetan men cried that that it wasn't safe to leave their wives or children alone. l saw interviews with senior monks at the Gaden Shartse Monastery in lndia (where my monks are from) who were in their 60's and 70's, who said that they had received death threats from the DL's supporters. These grief stricken monks all said they wished they had died rather than living to see this day. Many of them had actually helped the DL flee Tibet over 40 yrs ago and had escorted him to lndia. Now he was demanding that they give up a protector deity that had been worshipped by their families for generations and that was a vital part of their spiritual practice. l haven't yet been able to find any clear answer as to why the DL decided to decree this ban. Some have said it was at the behest of the Nebchung Oracle, others have said it was because he felt this worship was divisive among Gelukpas. lt's difficult to believe that any reason could justify this infringment on Tibetans' freedom of worship and the crimes that have been committed in his name. lt's unclear to me to what extent the DL has sanctioned this violence, but it's undisputed that his government has regarded as outlaws those who have refused out of religious conscience to obey his autocratic order. And the portions of the interview l saw with him were far from reassuring. This was not the warm, smiling DL we're all used to seeing. His face was tense and cold as he responded to questions. When he was asked about violence by his supporters he said "Violence? What violence?" When the reporter replied that he'd personally seen the victims and the violence with his own eyes, the DL snapped "Rumors! Just rumors!" No acknowledgment of what the reporters had themselves seen and heard; no explanations offered; no indication of concern or compassion for the victims. lt was like watching a performance by a politburo chief. This is not to say that wrongs haven't been committed by the other side as well, because they have been. But the DL is the one who began this religious persecution, and this time the numbers and the power are all on his side. The despair l saw in this video on the faces of these venerable monks and their fellow Tibetans in exile was as heart-wrenching as l've ever seen. One monk said what l'm sure they all felt: that what the Chinese did was NOTHING compared to this. The Chinese could take their homes and even their lives, but they couldn't murder their spirits. Only the Dalai Lama could do that. l can't imagine leaving your homeland, making the harrowing, torturous journey to lndia, following your hero the Dalai Lama, only to have him do the same thing to you that the Chinese had done. They have nowhere to go now -- no comfort other than what they can derive from their spiritual practice. l know l have alot to learn about this, and l welcome input from anyone on this list who has more light to shed. But l know enough to weep for these people. l don't know the Dalai Lama, but l know the monks who have come into my life to be as sweet as any beings l've ever known. And l'm siding with them. jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2001 Report Share Posted January 14, 2001 Come now, you didn't realllllly think that Tibet was a bloodless paradise. Executions have been relatively common there for centuries. Anywhere there are humans and a desire for power, blood runs freely, along with political intrigue, oppression and suffering, Kinda like Northern Ireland. The more complicated things look, the more you can expect it to be about power over others. What makes it especially sad is that this is ultimately foolish and hopelessly lame. This, however, does not prevent someone waiting around every corner hoping to sign you up for their conflict. Bottom line Jerry, are You ready to make conflict a part of Your practice? Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2001 Report Share Posted January 14, 2001 jerry-Mace, I'm a follower of Yogananda and I really thought that the Dali Lama was non-violent! Anne Elizabeth - Mace Mealer Sunday, January 14, 2001 9:04 PM Re: Re: Trouble in Shangri-la Come now, you didn't realllllly think that Tibet was a bloodless paradise. Executions have been relatively common there for centuries. Anywhere there are humans and a desire for power, blood runs freely, along with political intrigue, oppression and suffering, Kinda like Northern Ireland. The more complicated things look, the more you can expect it to be about power over others. What makes it especially sad is that this is ultimately foolish and hopelessly lame. This, however, does not prevent someone waiting around every corner hoping to sign you up for their conflict. Bottom line Jerry, are You ready to make conflict a part of Your practice? Mace // All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Dear Jerry, You wrote: l just watched a video yesterday about the controversy involving the Dalai Lama 's banning among Gelukpas of the worship of the protector deity Dorje Shugden A thanka of Dorje Shugden and some text: http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/exhib/sama/prot/pgs/T1067M.html Photographs and quotes from the Swiss TV program. (January 5th 1998): http://www.tibet-internal.com/000e.htm Article and comment (Newsweek April 28 1997) : http://www.cesnur.org/testi/fr99/gkg.htm I normally do not ask questions like: What do we know? What is there to know? Certainly, all of this is news, but none of this is knowledge! I normally do not ask questions like: What are they doing? What is there to do for us? Certainly, all of this is action, but none of this is right action! Etc. We will keep querying, questioning and questing until we find out that unconditional love is the only reality. There is no reality to doubt, to fear, to paranoia, etc. Who or what do we need protection from when we are sure of our selves and each other? Until people find out that that is so, they will be convinced that they need a Dorje Shugden. And...traditionally such protector 'wrathful deities' teach exactly that... !!! Isn't something like that always the case...?! A conundrum that Tibetan monks used to be good at solving. Indeed where is the Dalai Lama's smile? Or did he get it back of late? Love, Wim Attachment: (image/jpeg) _T1067MDamCan%3F97.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 I stumbled across this a few months ago, and spent several days researching it on the net, and I've come to the conclusion that the Dalai Lama is in the right, and the whole thing is a storm in a teacup, which got exagerated out of all proportion by people with axes to grind.... For a good overview, go to: http://buddhamaitreya.org/DalaiVsShugdon.html For more detail, check out: http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/ gill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 ps -- The Guardian did a very good article on the whole thing: http://www.tibet.ca/wtnarchive/1996/7/6_3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Hi Jerry, I'm sorry; due to the way emails don't always come through in the order they're posted, I went and jumped in before I'd had a chance to read the full text of your post. As I haven't seen the video, I can't comment, butt I'm still convinced that the DL himself isn't responsible for the violence. It's still very sad that it's happening at all, though. gill > Hi Everyone (Welcome back Harsha), l > just watched a video yesterday about the controversy involving the Dalai > Lama 's banning among Gelukpas of the worship of the protector deity Dorje > Shugden and have been deeply saddened ever since. > > > This has been going on for several years now, but l didn't recall > anything about it until now that it has come to indirectly involve me. > lt's only now that l realize that the monks who have a monastery in my > upstairs are among the minority of Tibetans who have refused to follow the > DL's orders and continue to worship this deity. A local dragon lady who > wanted the monks in her home and was refused has gone to the media here to > try to discredit them by broadcasting their split with the DL over Dorje > Shugden. The monks then gave me the video to watch after l pressed them > for more info about it. > > The video > was made by a team of Swiss reporters who traveled to lndia recently to > interview the DL, as well as others involved. l was shocked by what l saw. > The DL's supporters have been waging a campaign of terror across lndia > against Shugden worshippers, committing acts of violence and mayhem, > threatening peoples' lives and destroying their homes. Tibetan men cried > that that it wasn't safe to leave their wives or children alone. > > > l saw interviews with senior monks at the > Gaden > Shartse Monastery in lndia (where my monks are from) who were in their > 60's and 70's, who said that they had received death threats from the DL's > supporters. These grief stricken monks all said they wished they had died > rather than living to see this day. Many of them had actually helped the > DL flee Tibet over 40 yrs ago and had escorted him to lndia. Now he was > demanding that they give up a protector deity that had been worshipped by > their families for generations and that was a vital part of their > spiritual practice. > l haven't yet been able to find any clear answer as to > > why the DL decided to decree this ban. Some have said it was at the behest > of the Nebchung Oracle, others have said it was because he felt this > worship was divisive among Gelukpas. lt's difficult to believe that any > reason could justify this infringment on Tibetans' freedom of worship and > the crimes that have been committed in his name. > > lt's unclear to me to what > extent the DL has sanctioned this violence, but it's undisputed that his > government has regarded as outlaws those who have refused out of religious > conscience to obey his autocratic order. And the portions of the interview > l saw with him were far from reassuring. This was not the warm, smiling DL > we're all used to seeing. His face was tense and cold as he responded to > questions. When he was asked about violence by his supporters he said > "Violence? What violence?" When the reporter replied that he'd personally > seen the victims and the violence with his own eyes, the DL snapped > "Rumors! Just rumors!" No acknowledgment of what the reporters had > themselves seen and heard; no explanations offered; no indication of > concern or compassion for the victims. lt was like watching a performance > by a politburo chief. > > This is not to > say that wrongs haven't been committed by the other side as well, because > they have been. But the DL is the one who began this religious > persecution, and this time the numbers and the power are all on his side. > > > The despair l saw in this video on the faces of these venerable > monks > and their fellow Tibetans in exile was as heart-wrenching as l've ever > seen. One monk said what l'm sure they all felt: that what the Chinese did > was NOTHING compared to this. The Chinese could take their homes and even > their lives, but they couldn't murder their spirits. Only the Dalai Lama > could do that. l can't imagine leaving your homeland, making the > harrowing, torturous journey to lndia, following your hero the Dalai Lama, > only to have him do the same thing to you that the Chinese had done. They > have nowhere to go now -- no comfort other than what they can derive from > their spiritual practice. > > l know l have > alot to learn about this, and l welcome input from anyone on this list who > has more light to shed. But l know enough to weep for these people. l > don't know the Dalai Lama, but l know the monks who have come into my life > to be as sweet as any beings l've ever known. And l'm siding with them. > > > jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.