Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 , "Harsha" What do you all think? How can any genuine spiritual person refuse to worship at the temple of another religion? Would their God get mad > at them? > > Love > Harsha No, the infinite would not go mad over this exchange of love. Some 'followers' may. Hoo! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:27:41 Mark W. Otter wrote: >For what it's worth, I recommend you love the monks who meet upstairs >from you and that you also love the Dalai Lama and the folks who follow >him. Both (all) are human beings, and therefore, as near as I can tell, >both have limited perspective. I certainly do, and that may well be the >only thing I can say with any authority. Nonetheless, I suspect that >loving everyone is the right action to take. > >I empathize with your situation, and I wish you well. I think you have put the finger on something central here. In all religious disputes, more than in disputes of more worldly flavor, disagreement and exchange of views soon degenerate into (however subtle) accusations of not following the right faith and of the opponents being destined to whatever hell the religion is having for holding these and such views. Perhaps the problem at heart is interpretation. It's ok to become informed of all sides of the conflict and to side, but maybe it can stop there. Maybe it's not necessary to view the opposing side of the conflict (if one has taken a stance) as "the evil and wrong ones". Maybe it's enough to note that they have taken another stance, are actively working for their interests and views, which can or cannot be worked against, and then leave it at that. In nature, animals fight without any sense of personal animosity, but nevertheless do to put all their energy into it (not like they have a choice). That is zen fighting, if you now are in a situation you have to fight. Love, Amanda. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Dear Amanda and Mace, Amanda wrote: >In nature, animals fight without any sense >of personal animosity. <snip> That's it, isn't it? No anger. I wonder what animal 'fear' is like? Animal fear (if it exists at all) can not be the same as human fear. 'Fight or flight' is not the same as 'anger or fear'. Fierceness is not anger. Backing off is not fear. Flight is not from fear, it comes from a sense of measured reality, realism instead of illusion. It seems to me that there is no illusion in the animal world or in non-human nature... (Not talking about too 'humanly' (?) domesticated dogs, cats, riding horses, etc.) Anyway, Amanda I was just looking for those words that you posted. You phrased it so well. Would love to write something to Mace that makes sense to him - about fear and anger brought about by unjust and unjustified judgement, loveless punishment. I was really struck by what he wrote: >Any violence done to oneself is by it's >nature voluntary, to attribute it's source to >others is a delusion, realise that all fear >is created by oneself and only oneself. The implication of this is too far reaching, a bit too much Calvinism creeping in? I cannot accept that we are to blame personally for what we (may) have done wrong. There are so many variables and influences, causes and effects. We cannot make it so simplistic. It is too much of a self centered negativism. There are so many wheels turning this universe, so many strings pulling each other. The self-blame originates from a wrong (narcissistic like) psychology, a discompassionate religious outlook, an unrealistic philosophy. Plainly a self defeatist, self punishing strategy that can make life so joyless, hopeless for too many a sufferer. Sorry Mace, I mean this well, am just looking for ways to present you with a different view... If anything, maybe we should try to combine our views. Am willing to consider that... but I don't see how that can be done yet... Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 In a message dated 1/15/01 10:58:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, goode writes: << Your video sounds very interesting, and it is a blessing to be acquainted with such nice monks. We have a branch of the New Kadampa Buddhist organization here in NYC. Led by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and some lay instructors, they teach Madhyamika Buddhism, but mostly meditation. They do have some ceremonies for empowerment by Dorje Shugden, who they present (at this open level) as a dharma protector. >> Hi Greg, lt's interesting that these monks in NY are presenting ceremonies involving Shugden. Our monks don't include him in anything they offer the public -- it's a subject they stay as far away from as possible. lt took me 5 months to decide to let the monks use my home as a monastery. There seemed to be alot of conflicting considerations, one being that with my k problems l haven't been able to do any spiritual practice for 8 yrs and haven't considered myself Tibetan Buddhist or anything else during this time. But this looked like something l could do to make a contribution and to be part of a spiritual community, rather than continuing to be holed up here in isolation with my k miseries. lt's felt really good and has worked out well for everyone so far. There has been one problem: our lama has powerful energy, and l've found it hard to be around him -- makes my system go into overdrive -- so when he's here (which thankfully he's not, most of the time) l keep my distance. Now that really hurts, to be honest, but l'm used to k spoiling things for me. As my best spiritual friend said, after l told her this: "God, you've got strange karma." l couldn't put it better. Love from Mt Kailash, jerrysan rinpoche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 Hi Jerry, My thoughts are with you on the k problems. You have dharma and sangha surrounding you there, and I can feel your kindness in every word you write. The monks are certainly benefitting also by your presence and the offering you are giving. Gassho, --Greg At 01:23 PM 1/16/01 EST, GCWein1111 wrote: >In a message dated 1/15/01 10:58:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, goode >writes: > ><< > Your video sounds very interesting, and it is a blessing to be acquainted > with such nice monks. We have a branch of the New Kadampa Buddhist > organization here in NYC. Led by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and some lay > instructors, they teach Madhyamika Buddhism, but mostly meditation. They > do have some ceremonies for empowerment by Dorje Shugden, who they present > (at this open level) as a dharma protector. > >> > > Hi Greg, > lt's interesting that these monks in NY are presenting ceremonies >involving Shugden. Our monks don't include him in anything they offer the >public -- it's a subject they stay as far away from as possible. > > lt took me 5 months to decide to let the monks use my >home as a monastery. There seemed to be alot of conflicting considerations, >one being that with my k problems l haven't been able to do any spiritual >practice for 8 yrs and haven't considered myself Tibetan Buddhist or anything >else during this time. But this looked like something l could do to make a >contribution and to be part of a spiritual community, rather than continuing >to be holed up here in isolation with my k miseries. > > lt's felt really good and has >worked out well for everyone so far. There has been one problem: our lama has >powerful energy, and l've found it hard to be around him -- makes my system >go into overdrive -- so when he's here (which thankfully he's not, most of >the time) l keep my distance. Now that really hurts, to be honest, but l'm >used to k spoiling things for me. As my best spiritual friend said, after l >told her this: "God, you've got strange karma." l couldn't put it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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