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On 1/22/01 at 6:30 PM Jill Eggers wrote:

 

ºHi Jan,

º

ºThanks for giving us the specifics of your diet. It tempts me to try a

ºsimilar one,

ºbut I have found for the past years of real active kundalini that there

ºcan be a lot

ºof trouble if my diet is very light. If I fast for any length of time or

ºdon't

ºregularly eat "heavy" foods like grains and oils, for example, it becomes

ºdifficult

ºto focus and stay in a "normal" grounded consciousness, or to keep

ºconsciousness

ºsufficiently in the physical body for its optimal (or sometimes basic!)

ºfunctioning. Did you have this experience at any stage? [...]

 

 

Hi Jill,

 

Although it is thought that one can continue "life as usual" when K. is

ascending, there are several

occasions where this isn't the case and (supervised) temporary retirement

from

society would be required

to remove a block. Not the kind of block you probably are used to, but one

involving samadhi(s) and a complete,

temporary "loss" of what is interpreted as "being grounded" but what really

is

just the sense of "I" or "doership".

So what you are trying to avoid is what could be one of "THE" great events

of a

lifetime...

 

Hi Jan,

 

No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the

experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These

experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the

great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that

would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain

challenging efforts toward integration.

 

By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences

that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness,

inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what

Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of

others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately.

 

Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think

I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body

sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness

brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its

duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in

the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and

dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area

of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body

functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini.

 

So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in

finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet you

describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience.

 

Jill

 

 

In my case, over 30 years ago, the issue of being grounded was moot, having

accepted "death" as "ground" and on several days the mind-body must have

been

performing its duties, without any remembrance of it remaining, when having

returned from work and coming to "my" senses again.... Yet the work was done

OK

:)

 

So I would say the issue isn't food but something far more important...

 

 

Jan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

//

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

ocean,

all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness

does

not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart

Is.

Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within

into

It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

www., and select the User Center link from the

menu bar

on the left. This menu will also let you change your

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On 1/23/01 at 11:43 AM Eggers, Jill wrote:

 

ºOn 1/22/01 at 6:30 PM Jill Eggers wrote:

[...]

º

ºHi Jan,

º

º No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the

º experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These

º experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the

º great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that

º would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain

º challenging efforts toward integration.

º

º By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences

º that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness,

º inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what

º Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of

º others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately.

 

The majority of people cannot change from a processed food diet to a raw food

one without going through "rough times".

I came across too many stories (from doctors and clinics) to overlook that fact

and what is more, I can see if

people will experience great difficulties when changing - to me it is an easily

recognizable damage that will show even at one's face..

The major symptom when changing will be severe physical weakness.

º

º Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think

º I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body

º sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness

º brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its

º duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in

º the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and

º dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area

º of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body

º functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini.

 

Fortunately, when the K. was raging I didn't have any knowledge regarding K.,

diet, nonduality or anything

concerning these matters. I just had an absolutely great adventure, the one of a

lifetime that cannot be repeated.

But one of the strangest effects was the disappearance

of "having an opinion" in the sense of believing, irrespective of

facts/evidence/probability.

The disappearance of feeling identified, as having do defend when that belief

was "attacked"...

It is strange when a sense of "couldn't care less" starts to replace all the

"sacred cows" - not one has been left behind...

If anything, that could be called "not being grounded" as there appeared to

exist no ground

even for what is called "scientific evidence". But instead of being bothered, I

ignored it, along with

occasions where being opinionated was required.

º

º So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in

º finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet

ºyou

º describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience.

º

º Jill

 

To me, the problems related to "detoxification" alone can resemble a disease.

Combined with K., one cannot be sure what is going on...

One case of "detoxification only" is remarkable because it changed a behavior of

religious zeal into atheism - just by itself :)

 

In Holland, during the 1930ies there was a

clinic for fasting and detoxing - the founder writing to have come to that

decision

because otherwise the patients were violating the diet, swearing at their

dearest

to follow the diet although a simple urine test would prove the contrary :)

So he kept the patients under lock and key :)) Some of them admitted their

weakness (addiction?) before the cure was over and left...

 

Jan

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Thanks, Linda. Your perspective is always helpful and gets to the heart of the

question. I have been playing a lot of Krishna Das while cooking lately--what

do

you recommend chanting?

 

Jill

 

LC wrote:

> Hi Jill:

>

> It's always good to hear from you :-). Don't know if I have the exact answer

to

> your question but it sounds to me as if the 'vata' element is high in you and

by

> eating the light, raw foods you increase the 'vata' or air/ether element even

> more. That increase would account for being ungrounded and unable to

> concentrate.

>

> I've been following the food subject and it is apparent that there are many

> different ways of approaching one's diet. Even if one cooks their food it is

> possible to make the food "sattvic" by the choice of foods ie., ghee and

> properly prepared milk and also chanting while preparing the food would add to

> the high quality of the food.

>

> Without trying to step on anyone's toes here IMHO Jan's "K" experience was

> different from most of us in that it appears to have gone straight up the

> sushumna and he did not have blocks to work through or residues of energy to

> purify. For lots of us other folks there is still work to be done and

> enlightenment did not follow "K". It is interesting that Jan's fruit diet

> follows the yogic scriptures for the latter part of one's life when

spirituality

> is the daily dharma....perhaps many of us can look forward to that at a future

> time :-). For myself, vata also tends to go high and I find that I have many

> responsibilities in the mundane world and I also need cooked veggies and

> grains....now if I could just stay away from the cookies :-).

>

> Stay well.

>

> Love,

> Linda

>

> Thanks for giving us the specifics of your diet. It tempts me to try a

similar

> one,

> but I have found for the past years of real active kundalini that there can be

a

> lot

> of trouble if my diet is very light. If I fast for any length of time or

don't

> regularly eat "heavy" foods like grains and oils, for example, it becomes

> difficult

> to focus and stay in a "normal" grounded consciousness, or to keep

consciousness

> sufficiently in the physical body for its optimal (or sometimes basic!)

> functioning. Did you have this experience at any stage? Maybe Linda can

also

> address this issue-- what causes it.

>

> Also, I remember reading in several sources that in ayruveda mixing certain

> fruits

> in one dish or meal is not recommended, but I don't remember why. Can Linda

or

> anyone else on the list address this?

>

> Jill

> >

> > //

> <//>

> >

> > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

> back

> > into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

> ocean,

> > all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness

> does

> > not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart

Is.

> > Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

> > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within

> into

> > It Self. Welcome all to a.

> >

> > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

> > www., and select the User Center link from the

> > menu bar

> > on the left. This menu will also let you change your

> > subscription

> > between digest and normal mode.

>

> //

> <//>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back

> into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

ocean,

> all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness

does

> not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is.

> Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

> relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within

into

> It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

> To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

> www., and select the User Center link from the

> menu bar

> on the left. This menu will also let you change your

> subscription

> between digest and normal mode.

>

> eGroups Sponsor

>

>

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>

> //

> <//>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back

> into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

ocean,

> all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness

does

> not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is.

> Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

> relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within

into

> It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

> To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

> www., and select the User Center link from the

> menu bar

> on the left. This menu will also let you change your

> subscription

> between digest and normal mode.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Eggers, Jill [eggersj]

 

Hi Jan,

 

No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the

experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These

experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the

great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that

would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain

challenging efforts toward integration.

 

By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences

that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness,

inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what

Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of

others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately.

 

Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think

I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body

sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness

brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its

duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in

the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and

dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area

of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body

functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini.

 

So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in

finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet you

describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience.

 

Jill

 

 

Good points Jill. Everyone has unique needs. I love raw foods. You know the

usual oranges, mangoes, dates, avocados and all that stuff. Jan eats one

avocado a month. I have sometimes eaten three or four California avocados in

one sitting! Its not pretty because each avocado has about 30+ grams of fat.

It is my way of showing respect to the raw food teachings. Of course, I also

eat a lot of cooked food because we should show respect to the Fire God.

Fire has helped our civilization get where we are. Because I eat both raw

and cooked foods, I can say with confidence to anyone in matters of diet, "

I am on your side and really mean it." I toast you Jan with a piece of

Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special lentil soup

recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us.

 

Love

Harsha

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But don't have a cow!

 

love, Bart

 

Harsha wrote:

 

I toast you Jan with a piece of

> Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special lentil

> soup

> recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us.

>

> Love

> Harsha

>

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May we not let 'vegetarian' and 'meat-eater' divide us either.

 

It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however

there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from

doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the

killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get

discarded.

 

Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat

eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I

do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat.

 

As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out,

life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat,

showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm.

 

If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real

shame.

 

I would not give up my cat for adoption, because she does not choose

to eat salads :-). Nor would I judge the lion for bringing down the

antelope, or the shark for eating fish.

 

The potential judgement is much more a cause for concern than dietary

habits.

 

Love,

 

Omkara

 

, "Mark W. Otter" <mark.otter@s...> wrote:

> But don't have a cow!

>

> love, Bart

>

> Harsha wrote:

>

> I toast you Jan with a piece of

>

> > Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special

lentil

> > soup

> > recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us.

> >

> > Love

> > Harsha

> >

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Tim,

> It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however

> there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from

> doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the

> killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get

> discarded.

 

But if enough of you choose not to eat it, a few less animals will be

killed.

> Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat

> eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I

> do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat.

 

You are paying somebody else to do your killing for you. And unless you are

very choosy about where you get your meat, the animals are treated with

horrible cruelty.

> As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out,

> life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat,

> showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm.

 

Very true. Maybe in the ultimate sense it makes no difference that some

people choose to feed on plants instead of animals. To me it just "feels

right," and that's good enough.

>

> If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real

> shame.

 

It can be sometimes be a difficult subject to discuss. I have tried to make

my statements here factual and judgment-free, but the facts alone often

provoke a strong reaction. No offense to you or any non-vegetarians is

intended.

 

Kelvin

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On 2/5/01 at 9:25 PM M.K. Hovila wrote:

 

ºTim,

º

º> It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however

º> there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from

º> doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the

º> killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get

º> discarded.

º

ºBut if enough of you choose not to eat it, a few less animals will be

ºkilled.

 

It isn't so much of a choice - that would make the issue "rational". And as can

be observed, arguments don't work. It is a matter of sensitiveness - that high

enough, the "ambience" of a slaughterhouse is felt as very unpleasant. Feelings

will determine the action, sensitiveness being high enough, it seems as if

arguments alone can change one's mind.

º

º> Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat

º> eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I

º> do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat.

º

ºYou are paying somebody else to do your killing for you. And unless you

ºare

ºvery choosy about where you get your meat, the animals are treated with

ºhorrible cruelty.

 

That is the issue of sensitiveness again.... Even lizards (without emotional

brain) show responses like "preparing for the last blow" - an almost cataleptic

state... But the survival instinct remains till the last breath. No creature

"wants" to die...

º

º> As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out,

º> life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat,

º> showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm.

º

ºVery true. Maybe in the ultimate sense it makes no difference that some

ºpeople choose to feed on plants instead of animals. To me it just "feels

ºright," and that's good enough.

 

The difference is only a health-issue...

º>

º> If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real

º> shame.

º

ºIt can be sometimes be a difficult subject to discuss. I have tried to

ºmake

ºmy statements here factual and judgment-free, but the facts alone often

ºprovoke a strong reaction. No offense to you or any non-vegetarians is

ºintended.

º

ºKelvin

 

There isn't much use in discussing such issues - I have a good laugh seeing the

bafflement on people's faces, when saying not to consume meat, fish, or dairy

products or even bread. Sooner or later, the impression created, will have

effect...

 

Jan

º

º

º

º

º

º//

º

ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the

ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present.

ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome

ºall to a.

º

ºTo from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at

º www., and select the User Center link from

ºthe menu bar

º on the left. This menu will also let you change your

ºsubscription

º between digest and normal mode.

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