Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 On 1/22/01 at 6:30 PM Jill Eggers wrote: ºHi Jan, º ºThanks for giving us the specifics of your diet. It tempts me to try a ºsimilar one, ºbut I have found for the past years of real active kundalini that there ºcan be a lot ºof trouble if my diet is very light. If I fast for any length of time or ºdon't ºregularly eat "heavy" foods like grains and oils, for example, it becomes ºdifficult ºto focus and stay in a "normal" grounded consciousness, or to keep ºconsciousness ºsufficiently in the physical body for its optimal (or sometimes basic!) ºfunctioning. Did you have this experience at any stage? [...] Hi Jill, Although it is thought that one can continue "life as usual" when K. is ascending, there are several occasions where this isn't the case and (supervised) temporary retirement from society would be required to remove a block. Not the kind of block you probably are used to, but one involving samadhi(s) and a complete, temporary "loss" of what is interpreted as "being grounded" but what really is just the sense of "I" or "doership". So what you are trying to avoid is what could be one of "THE" great events of a lifetime... Hi Jan, No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain challenging efforts toward integration. By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness, inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately. Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini. So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet you describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience. Jill In my case, over 30 years ago, the issue of being grounded was moot, having accepted "death" as "ground" and on several days the mind-body must have been performing its duties, without any remembrance of it remaining, when having returned from work and coming to "my" senses again.... Yet the work was done OK So I would say the issue isn't food but something far more important... Jan // All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 On 1/23/01 at 11:43 AM Eggers, Jill wrote: ºOn 1/22/01 at 6:30 PM Jill Eggers wrote: [...] º ºHi Jan, º º No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the º experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These º experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the º great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that º would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain º challenging efforts toward integration. º º By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences º that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness, º inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what º Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of º others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately. The majority of people cannot change from a processed food diet to a raw food one without going through "rough times". I came across too many stories (from doctors and clinics) to overlook that fact and what is more, I can see if people will experience great difficulties when changing - to me it is an easily recognizable damage that will show even at one's face.. The major symptom when changing will be severe physical weakness. º º Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think º I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body º sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness º brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its º duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in º the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and º dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area º of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body º functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini. Fortunately, when the K. was raging I didn't have any knowledge regarding K., diet, nonduality or anything concerning these matters. I just had an absolutely great adventure, the one of a lifetime that cannot be repeated. But one of the strangest effects was the disappearance of "having an opinion" in the sense of believing, irrespective of facts/evidence/probability. The disappearance of feeling identified, as having do defend when that belief was "attacked"... It is strange when a sense of "couldn't care less" starts to replace all the "sacred cows" - not one has been left behind... If anything, that could be called "not being grounded" as there appeared to exist no ground even for what is called "scientific evidence". But instead of being bothered, I ignored it, along with occasions where being opinionated was required. º º So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in º finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet ºyou º describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience. º º Jill To me, the problems related to "detoxification" alone can resemble a disease. Combined with K., one cannot be sure what is going on... One case of "detoxification only" is remarkable because it changed a behavior of religious zeal into atheism - just by itself In Holland, during the 1930ies there was a clinic for fasting and detoxing - the founder writing to have come to that decision because otherwise the patients were violating the diet, swearing at their dearest to follow the diet although a simple urine test would prove the contrary So he kept the patients under lock and key ) Some of them admitted their weakness (addiction?) before the cure was over and left... Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Thanks, Linda. Your perspective is always helpful and gets to the heart of the question. I have been playing a lot of Krishna Das while cooking lately--what do you recommend chanting? Jill LC wrote: > Hi Jill: > > It's always good to hear from you :-). Don't know if I have the exact answer to > your question but it sounds to me as if the 'vata' element is high in you and by > eating the light, raw foods you increase the 'vata' or air/ether element even > more. That increase would account for being ungrounded and unable to > concentrate. > > I've been following the food subject and it is apparent that there are many > different ways of approaching one's diet. Even if one cooks their food it is > possible to make the food "sattvic" by the choice of foods ie., ghee and > properly prepared milk and also chanting while preparing the food would add to > the high quality of the food. > > Without trying to step on anyone's toes here IMHO Jan's "K" experience was > different from most of us in that it appears to have gone straight up the > sushumna and he did not have blocks to work through or residues of energy to > purify. For lots of us other folks there is still work to be done and > enlightenment did not follow "K". It is interesting that Jan's fruit diet > follows the yogic scriptures for the latter part of one's life when spirituality > is the daily dharma....perhaps many of us can look forward to that at a future > time :-). For myself, vata also tends to go high and I find that I have many > responsibilities in the mundane world and I also need cooked veggies and > grains....now if I could just stay away from the cookies :-). > > Stay well. > > Love, > Linda > > Thanks for giving us the specifics of your diet. It tempts me to try a similar > one, > but I have found for the past years of real active kundalini that there can be a > lot > of trouble if my diet is very light. If I fast for any length of time or don't > regularly eat "heavy" foods like grains and oils, for example, it becomes > difficult > to focus and stay in a "normal" grounded consciousness, or to keep consciousness > sufficiently in the physical body for its optimal (or sometimes basic!) > functioning. Did you have this experience at any stage? Maybe Linda can also > address this issue-- what causes it. > > Also, I remember reading in several sources that in ayruveda mixing certain > fruits > in one dish or meal is not recommended, but I don't remember why. Can Linda or > anyone else on the list address this? > > Jill > > > > // > <//> > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back > > into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the > ocean, > > all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness > does > > not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. > > Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within > into > > It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > > www., and select the User Center link from the > > menu bar > > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > > subscription > > between digest and normal mode. > > // > <//> > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back > into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, > all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does > not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. > Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into > It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the > menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > eGroups Sponsor > > <http://rd./M=168002.1291681.2888959.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700060955:N/A=56 > 4957/*http://www.columbiahouse.com/gateway?token=7416> Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 > each! > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > <http://us.adserver./l?M=168002.1291681.2888959.2/D=egroupmail/S=170006 > 0955:N/A=564957/rand=379472541> > > // > <//> > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back > into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, > all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does > not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. > Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee > relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into > It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the > menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2001 Report Share Posted February 4, 2001 Eggers, Jill [eggersj] Hi Jan, No, this is not what I am describing. I am not "trying to avoid" the experience of samadhis or loss of a sense of "doership". These experiences came with the onset of kundalini activity, and as "the great events of a lifetime", became the central facts of a life that would clearly not continue "as usual", and served to sustain challenging efforts toward integration. By being ungrounded, I meant, in my earlier post, having experiences that included, among other things, extreme physical weakness, inability to focus and think clearly, and feeling too open to what Holly once called "psychic weather"--experiencing the emotions of others, present and not present, somewhat indiscriminately. Of course your experience and mine are very different--for me I think I had a HUGE amount of work to do to clear and clean up the mind-body sufficently to sustain and integrate the growth in consciousness brought by k. Unlike you, for me the mind-body could not perform its duties, either during states of transcendence, or outside of them in the states of ungroundedness I experienced as states of pain and dysfunction. For the past 9 years, diet questions have been an area of exploration for finding the best ways of keeping the body functional and strong enough to integrate the work of kundalini. So I remain interested both in learning from your experience, and in finding out the reasons, ayurvedically and otherwise, why the diet you describe does not seem to be appropriate to my current experience. Jill Good points Jill. Everyone has unique needs. I love raw foods. You know the usual oranges, mangoes, dates, avocados and all that stuff. Jan eats one avocado a month. I have sometimes eaten three or four California avocados in one sitting! Its not pretty because each avocado has about 30+ grams of fat. It is my way of showing respect to the raw food teachings. Of course, I also eat a lot of cooked food because we should show respect to the Fire God. Fire has helped our civilization get where we are. Because I eat both raw and cooked foods, I can say with confidence to anyone in matters of diet, " I am on your side and really mean it." I toast you Jan with a piece of Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special lentil soup recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2001 Report Share Posted February 5, 2001 But don't have a cow! love, Bart Harsha wrote: I toast you Jan with a piece of > Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special lentil > soup > recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us. > > Love > Harsha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2001 Report Share Posted February 5, 2001 May we not let 'vegetarian' and 'meat-eater' divide us either. It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get discarded. Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat. As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out, life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat, showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm. If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real shame. I would not give up my cat for adoption, because she does not choose to eat salads :-). Nor would I judge the lion for bringing down the antelope, or the shark for eating fish. The potential judgement is much more a cause for concern than dietary habits. Love, Omkara , "Mark W. Otter" <mark.otter@s...> wrote: > But don't have a cow! > > love, Bart > > Harsha wrote: > > I toast you Jan with a piece of > > > Cantaloupe. I celebrate you Jerrysan Rinpoche with my special lentil > > soup > > recipe. May we not let the "raw" and the "cooked" divide us. > > > > Love > > Harsha > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2001 Report Share Posted February 6, 2001 Tim, > It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however > there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from > doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the > killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get > discarded. But if enough of you choose not to eat it, a few less animals will be killed. > Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat > eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I > do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat. You are paying somebody else to do your killing for you. And unless you are very choosy about where you get your meat, the animals are treated with horrible cruelty. > As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out, > life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat, > showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm. Very true. Maybe in the ultimate sense it makes no difference that some people choose to feed on plants instead of animals. To me it just "feels right," and that's good enough. > > If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real > shame. It can be sometimes be a difficult subject to discuss. I have tried to make my statements here factual and judgment-free, but the facts alone often provoke a strong reaction. No offense to you or any non-vegetarians is intended. Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2001 Report Share Posted February 6, 2001 On 2/5/01 at 9:25 PM M.K. Hovila wrote: ºTim, º º> It's regretful that the lives of animals are taken for food, however º> there will be no guilt here for eating meat. My refraining from º> doing so 'on principle' will not affect the slaughterhouses, the º> killers. The meat I would not eat would otherwise spoil and get º> discarded. º ºBut if enough of you choose not to eat it, a few less animals will be ºkilled. It isn't so much of a choice - that would make the issue "rational". And as can be observed, arguments don't work. It is a matter of sensitiveness - that high enough, the "ambience" of a slaughterhouse is felt as very unpleasant. Feelings will determine the action, sensitiveness being high enough, it seems as if arguments alone can change one's mind. º º> Never would I intentionally kill a sentient being. But being a meat º> eater since childhood, there is no guilt associated with it... and I º> do not eat meat in great quantities, and rarely red meat. º ºYou are paying somebody else to do your killing for you. And unless you ºare ºvery choosy about where you get your meat, the animals are treated with ºhorrible cruelty. That is the issue of sensitiveness again.... Even lizards (without emotional brain) show responses like "preparing for the last blow" - an almost cataleptic state... But the survival instinct remains till the last breath. No creature "wants" to die... º º> As Nisargadatta Maharaj (a meat eater himself) astutely pointed out, º> life feeds on life. Even plants have been shown to react to threat, º> showing a sort of fear-response to potential harm. º ºVery true. Maybe in the ultimate sense it makes no difference that some ºpeople choose to feed on plants instead of animals. To me it just "feels ºright," and that's good enough. The difference is only a health-issue... º> º> If dietary habits ever became a 'sore point' it would be a real º> shame. º ºIt can be sometimes be a difficult subject to discuss. I have tried to ºmake ºmy statements here factual and judgment-free, but the facts alone often ºprovoke a strong reaction. No offense to you or any non-vegetarians is ºintended. º ºKelvin There isn't much use in discussing such issues - I have a good laugh seeing the bafflement on people's faces, when saying not to consume meat, fish, or dairy products or even bread. Sooner or later, the impression created, will have effect... Jan º º º º º º// º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º ºTo from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at º www., and select the User Center link from ºthe menu bar º on the left. This menu will also let you change your ºsubscription º between digest and normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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