Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 On 1/30/01 at 5:45 AM Michael Read wrote: º[...] ºWhat I said does have a somewhat subtle measure. There are situations ºand circumstances over which the 'individual' has no control. Natural ºdisasters of course rank right up at the top. True, better building ºpractices would/may have averted most if not all of the death and ºdestruction in India. Short sightedness and greed were the other ºmitigating circumstance that we who witness also have no control over. I got "acquainted" with the concept "cost of a human life" through a neighbor, who was studying for structural engineer: at that time, the cost of a Dutchman was $50,000 and that figure was used in calculations regarding lethal traffic accidents and the safety measures to prevent road killing. º ºIs there blame to be laid on karma accrued in past lives by those who ºdied? What a crock of shit! Karma is immediate. If not directly so, ºthen over a span of time. IE, poor building practices today cause the ºeffect of structural failure tomorrow or in a few years. If Karma would be immediate, no human would survive. In the course of events, all thoughts will "materialize" and that can be verified easily by anyone living the "last life". In that respect, Grace is that most of Karma is postponed immediately... So the thoughts of hatred and revenge will first create the destructive weapons to materialize those feelings and then, the course of events when the weapons will be used - unless again, "Grace intervenes", the weapons are destroyed and another direction is chosen. But sometimes that will take wars... Grace is not something one has to wait for: it will reveal itself by itself for those who didn't lose the "link" to Love and devotion through birth and or upbringing - and to those who are (sometimes miraculously) restored to it. º ºDespite the short sightedness/greed/stupidity inherehent in the human ºrace, there is much beauty and grace manifested through the vehicle of ºhumanity. I wonder if those qualifications are the culprit - if so, "the case of the human race" is deemed hopeless by that. Instead, I would point at the arising of a civilization where love and devotion have become rare but can be restored to "normalcy" (again)... Do I have to remind of the fact that what now, often with contempt, are called phallic symbols, once were undisputed sacred symbols? And let me help a bit more: if the following goes for Jnanadeva: -------------------------- The dates proposed for Jnanadeva are 1271-1293 (or 1275-1297). He voluntarily abandoned his body at the age of 22. He is quite famous for the excellent commentary on Bhagvad-gita called Jnaneshvari. He received hatha yoga teachings from his brother, Nivritti-natha and tries to combine this yoga with the gita. As he correctly notes, hatha yoga practiconers (most of them anyway) measure the wind with upstretched arms day and night and lack the slightest devotion. They should expect only sorrow in their path. ------------------------- What would he say about most of today's Hatha yoga practitioners - or "humanity at large"? And why would someone, supposedly happy, beyond the pairs of opposites, voluntarily leave the body? º ºIs the human race evolving and growing into a more grace filled ºspiritually minded species? Perhaps. Still the question remains, where ºdoes it all come from?! In advaita vendanta (and many other º'religions') the teaching is that it is all god's play, a grand ºillusion. We are but puppets. What puppet has the temerity to question ºits master?! As a consolation that is great - especially when it becomes clear, happiness does not depend on "external events". But the term "illusion" is greatly misunderstood - one of the greatest teachers of Advaita went at great length to restore it to its original purity and teach as many as possible... What else could that be called but love, devotion, compassion and dedication? Forget the (mental) gymnastics - unless they will lead love, devotion, compassion and dedication, they will only add to the burden of karma... º ºIn this grand illusion from time to time a character may step out of ºform and raise its fist to the heavens declaring, "God, you suck! you ºare the ultimate bastard! If you are a god of love, it is a sick and ºsadistic kind of perverted love. Fuck you!" Well, I hold that as a bit of ignorance - as the founder of Samramba yoga demonstrated, even a "path of hate" will lead to "oneness". In order to hate, it has to be loved first - and that goes for everything - including those "suck, yuck and fuck" remarks. º ºAll of the religious systems don't amount to a hill of beans. Look out ºacross the vastness of space. Will it go away if the planet earth is ºdestroyed? Don't bet on it! Other stars will continue to shine. Other ºplanets will bring forth life and sentient beings. Isn't that like finding an excuse as "not to clean 'our own house'"? º ºDoes anything count in this madcap, mixedup, motherfucker of a ºuniverse? Only the beauty of this moment as it unfolds into the next ºmoment. It is the neverending story. Manifested life is behaving according to certain natural laws. Abiding by/cooperating with bring beauty, harmony and happiness but won't prevent natural disasters. It will only make them visible before these events will actually occur and that "makes a hell of difference"... º ºMayhaps humanity will learn to play well and wisely. Then again we may ºnot. God can play rough. Damn rough. This illusory existance has no ºinherent meaning. It only is. We can rant and rave against the ºseeming injustice all we want. We can roll over and refuse to play. We ºcan stress out and succumb to visions. We can search frantically for ºsome great meaning that will justify our existance. And none of it ºwill matter one iota. Things are as they are. Blame God, blame the foreigners - even that blaming will "hit the originator of those thoughts": that is the consequence of all nondual teaching... And for some, witnessing others suffer is experienced as "far worse" than whatever pertains to the "own" body... º ºLife is best lived with gusto! Of course - a life without love, devotion, compassion and dedication is "less" than that of an inanimate rock... º º ºHAHAHAH and HOHOHO! Agreed... º ºPeace - and why not? - Michael Peace forever - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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