Guest guest Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 Hi Michael You wrote to Linda: > thanks for your lucid words which have struck some chord within me. I don't > think the Lord Buddha, or the Lord Jesus, or any of the great ones, ever > encouraged their disciples to speak much of their spiritual attainments, or > states of enlightenment. Rather, they stressed the importance of the > practical virtues, plus meditation or prayer. Well Saint Paul was not afraid to display some verbal fireworks.... I suppose Michael and Linda are kind of right, but there is more to it. Humility can also be quite egocentrally displayed. (I have an aunt who died of it) Humility can very well be a deviated display of lack of self respect, lack of clarity of mind and lack of free will. It is not so simple. Beware the pharisees in the front of the temple and the "unworthy-in-their-own-eyes" in the back. Jesus also invited people to come forward... Jesus did not put his light under a "korenmaat" (Dutch, a conical vessel to measure grain with). Jesus was also interested in what ppl thought about who he was, he even asked his disciples. I wonder if he ever considered the word "humility" the way we nowadays use it, let me find out... OK, he is quoted using the word "humble" about four or five times, when referring to poor people, the meek. That is not the same meaning as humility. The word 'humility was only used by some apostles in later writings. I do not think that people on lists like this talk about their "attainments" to show off, rather they will say that anybody can reach or *reclaim* their original spiritual power or strength. They will very often mention that theirs are not attainments but the results of SELF reclamation and Spiritual cleansing. When they talk about that, it is often to show: "Hey this is in you too, unhide it , reclaim yourself, you are a divine child." Not speaking our truth, is usually stuffed into us in order to for us to stay at the bottom of some pyramidal scheme, there maybe 'class' reasons for that. Class distinctions even if we think so, have not been gotten rid of yet. There is a strong Calvinist, Lutheran streak all through us, even if we have no such background, even humanists display the same kind of moral prescriptions or ways of behaviour. It has even influenced Roman Catholic Christianity where it did not use to be. There is more to this than what we popularly admire. Many female holy people were disapproved of during and since the middle ages... these ladies were definitely not humble in the moral sense and were quite outspoken in displaying their strengths and convictions. Did they ever have to fight a pope or two... Patriarchal pressures.... you bet. People who have met Mother Theresa acknowledge her strength and lack of artificial humility as she strongly talked about her actions to some, so as to be an example of strength and give some of her volunteers practical hints and pointers. Michael it may not have been all this that you were referring to, maybe I'm just rambling along a bit.... but... When I was or thought to be humble I got stressed out and taken advantage of. Eventually I became depressed. When I retrieved original being siddhis came as well and they are there for everyone to regain as well... and I am not afraid to talk about it as it is all an expression of the divine on earth... Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Hi Wim: I would definitely agree that humility can be a symptom of an ego that is just as unbalanced as that of the narcissist. It is wonderful that we have lists like these to let others know that the spiritual power of self can be reclaimed by all and that in fact reclaiming this spiritual self is really the only point of living. Often I've been, like yourself, taken advantage of through some aspects of having a spiritual approach to life. I attribute this to a lack of discrimination on my part more than anything else. Surrender does not mean that one becomes powerless and humility does not mean one becomes a doormat. My point is that detachment does not mean one can always be so cut off from others that an opportunity to offer assistance should be ignored. It should mean that one is detached from the fruits of the action and that one can be in the self no matter what activity of the body and mind. I am not pointing a finger at the lists I am just aware that it is possible for one to be just as selfish and uncaring under the guise of being a spiritual seeker as it is to be in that state of mind while ripping someone off at a used car lot. To know the self is to know that one is not disconnected from anything and that has to equate with coming from love and compassion. We are so fortunate to be able to share and participate in spiritual teachings with ease but in the end it means nothing if it works only to isolate us in some ivy covered tower of detached smugness. Sorry if I sound preachy it's just the "Pollyanna" in me that wishes we could all work to uplift others. Once I was at a Krishna Das kirtan and he said "If your spirituality is not like making love why bother?" Love does not turn it's back away but seeks to heal and uplift. Love, Linda > Humility can also be quite egocentrally displayed. (I have an aunt who died > of it) Humility can very well be a deviated display of lack of self respect, > lack of clarity of mind and lack of free will. > It is not so simple. > > >>>snip>>> > I do not think that people on lists like this talk about their "attainments" > to show off, rather they will say that anybody can reach or *reclaim* their > original spiritual power or strength. They will very often mention that > theirs are not attainments but the results of SELF reclamation and Spiritual > cleansing. When they talk about that, it is often to show: "Hey this is in > you too, unhide it , reclaim yourself, you are a divine child." Not speaking > our truth, is usually stuffed into us in order to for us to stay at the > bottom of some pyramidal scheme, there maybe 'class' reasons for that. Class > distinctions even if we think so, have not been gotten rid of yet. There is > a strong Calvinist, Lutheran streak all through us, even if we have no such > background, even humanists display the same kind of moral prescriptions or > ways of behaviour. It has even influenced Roman Catholic Christianity where > it did not use to be. > > There is more to this than what we popularly admire. > > Many female holy people were disapproved of during and since the middle > ages... these ladies were definitely not humble in the moral sense and were > quite outspoken in displaying their strengths and convictions. Did they ever > have to fight a pope or two... Patriarchal pressures.... you bet. > People who have met Mother Theresa acknowledge her strength and lack of > artificial humility as she strongly talked about her actions to some, so as > to be an example of strength and give some of her volunteers practical hints > and pointers. > > Michael it may not have been all this that you were referring to, maybe I'm > just rambling along a bit.... but... > > When I was or thought to be humble I got stressed out and taken advantage > of. Eventually I became depressed. When I retrieved original being siddhis > came as well and they are there for everyone to regain as well... and I am > not afraid to talk about it as it is all an expression of the divine on > earth... > > Love, Wim > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Dear Linda, Well appreciated Love, Wim - "LC" <jyotish <> Friday, March 09, 2001 6:27 AM Re: The dispaly of humility. > Hi Wim: > > I would definitely agree that humility can be a symptom of an ego that is > just as unbalanced as that of the narcissist. It is wonderful that we have > lists like these to let others know that the spiritual power of self can be > reclaimed by all and that in fact reclaiming this spiritual self is really > the only point of living. Often I've been, like yourself, taken advantage > of through some aspects of having a spiritual approach to life. I attribute > this to a lack of discrimination on my part more than anything else. > Surrender does not mean that one becomes powerless and humility does not > mean one becomes a doormat. My point is that detachment does not mean one > can always be so cut off from others that an opportunity to offer assistance > should be ignored. It should mean that one is detached from the fruits of > the action and that one can be in the self no matter what activity of the > body and mind. > > I am not pointing a finger at the lists I am just aware that it is possible > for one to be just as selfish and uncaring under the guise of being a > spiritual seeker as it is to be in that state of mind while ripping someone > off at a used car lot. To know the self is to know that one is not > disconnected from anything and that has to equate with coming from love and > compassion. We are so fortunate to be able to share and participate in > spiritual teachings with ease but in the end it means nothing if it works > only to isolate us in some ivy covered tower of detached smugness. > > Sorry if I sound preachy it's just the "Pollyanna" in me that wishes we > could all work to uplift others. Once I was at a Krishna Das kirtan and he > said "If your spirituality is not like making love why bother?" Love does > not turn it's back away but seeks to heal and uplift. > > Love, > Linda > > > > Humility can also be quite egocentrally displayed. (I have an aunt who > died > > of it) Humility can very well be a deviated display of lack of self > respect, > > lack of clarity of mind and lack of free will. > > It is not so simple. > > > > >>>snip>>> > > > I do not think that people on lists like this talk about their > "attainments" > > to show off, rather they will say that anybody can reach or *reclaim* > their > > original spiritual power or strength. They will very often mention that > > theirs are not attainments but the results of SELF reclamation and > Spiritual > > cleansing. When they talk about that, it is often to show: "Hey this is in > > you too, unhide it , reclaim yourself, you are a divine child." Not > speaking > > our truth, is usually stuffed into us in order to for us to stay at the > > bottom of some pyramidal scheme, there maybe 'class' reasons for that. > Class > > distinctions even if we think so, have not been gotten rid of yet. There > is > > a strong Calvinist, Lutheran streak all through us, even if we have no > such > > background, even humanists display the same kind of moral prescriptions or > > ways of behaviour. It has even influenced Roman Catholic Christianity > where > > it did not use to be. > > > > There is more to this than what we popularly admire. > > > > Many female holy people were disapproved of during and since the middle > > ages... these ladies were definitely not humble in the moral sense and > were > > quite outspoken in displaying their strengths and convictions. Did they > ever > > have to fight a pope or two... Patriarchal pressures.... you bet. > > People who have met Mother Theresa acknowledge her strength and lack of > > artificial humility as she strongly talked about her actions to some, so > as > > to be an example of strength and give some of her volunteers practical > hints > > and pointers. > > > > Michael it may not have been all this that you were referring to, maybe > I'm > > just rambling along a bit.... but... > > > > When I was or thought to be humble I got stressed out and taken advantage > > of. Eventually I became depressed. When I retrieved original being siddhis > > came as well and they are there for everyone to regain as well... and I am > > not afraid to talk about it as it is all an expression of the divine on > > earth... > > > > Love, Wim > > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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