Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Rajanji I love your analysis! I will pass on my response and your original message to as well. First, what you have to offer is very astute, clean, and well organized! My general comment is that the bridge between "Theory" and "Reality" is created by Grace. Ramana Maharshi once said (to paraphrase) that Divine Grace is vouchsafed for the True Yogi who has practiced with all his heart and mind and then surrendered his efforts. Grace is the Ever-Present Reality that We Already Are. The Advaitic Spiritual practice consists of a fundamental inward movement where Awareness suddenly becomes Aware of ItSelf. This is why they say "That Thou Are!" or "Know That by which you know all else". Some quality of awareness permeates across all living beings, animals, humans, gods, etc. All are aware of their own existence with some degree of clarity or another. Whereas generally the feeling of existence is associated with a body (gross or subtle), the ancient Rishis saw that Existence can also be Experienced as Pure Existence as the Self independent of all bodies. And That Pure Existence (Sat-Chit-Ananda) is Ever the Same with bodies or without bodies. This is all open to verification as demonstrated by the Sage of Arunachala. All verification is only Self-Verification. One must turn to one's Own Awareness and enquire into its nature. All else is speculation which may be useful for the time being but at some point one must be absolutely direct in one's enquiry. Love to all Harsha PBV Rajan [rajanpbv] Saturday, March 24, 2001 8:53 AM advaitin Advaitin, Gods & Moksha Dear Distinguished List members, Namaste. The question raised by Shri Dennis Waite was, as I understood it, Why Advaitins, who consider world as unreality (as there is only one reality-which is themselves), worship a matter like God? The answers from most of the active members of the list has been profound but not fully convincing. I think the answer could be: 1) Advaitin is a Hypothesis, it is not an independent religion from Hinduism nor was it designed to be. Any serious practitioner, if he ever found the ultimate truth, which the hypothesis so uncompromisingly states, would not be available to either announce it or find an audience, because as per its own theory, there is no one else besides him. 2) Vedas, the fundamental scripts on which the Hindu religion was developed, explicitly accepts the presence of several gods. While it mentions in passing the advaitin hypothesis also, it is neither the opening line nor the concluding line nor the whole content. In short it is much more than one hypothesis. This has been the basis for different hypothesis developed by Ramanuja & Madhava among others, although Advaitin was elaborated 3 centuries earlier by Sankara. The jury is still out. So Hindus have many Gods and we have no regrets, whether others like it or not. If we are Pagans, so be it. 3) Gods can be interpreted as creations evolved from man upwards with more powers and senses and option to have a body or not. Simply put, they exist with specific powers with respect to their own portfolio. They play a senior management role in the kingdom of God. Man is a citizen. By sadhanas, he too can get promoted to be a god and be in heaven. If he does not make it, he gets transferred to another location on this earth or somewhere lower down, depending upon his past record. 4) The head office is Moksha. After that there are no promotions. He joins the Board of Directors (or the cabinet if you are a politician)and the advaitin hypothesis is that there is only one Director or PM. Other Hindus believe that Param Atma is the Chairman or President. This is the end of the journey of the soul, which is accepted by all Hindus. Till then-keep trying. Whether we as human fashioned our organizations on the basis of Gods own design or our Rishis designed our concepts on "God & Soul", based on humans social organization, literally, only God Knows. By the way, the answer to Dennis question still remains outstanding. I am not a advaitin scholar so I cannot comment on it. Have I got it somewhat right or all wrong? With Pranams P.B.V.Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Namaste All, It seems to me that basing the philosophy on the Vedas of the Indo Europeans is somewhat erroneous. Adwaita and its teachers predate the written and perhaps learned Vedas, as such. I believe this knowledge goes back to Mu, the Motherland, and the Naacal(Nagas) Priests who brought it into India long before the Indo European language was spoken there. It seems they taught a K system from the sound of their names. No doubt within the Vedas there is ancient knowledge, they were from different time periods. Indian Gods are really no different from the pantheon of Christian Saints, it really superstition........Om Namah Sivaya..Tony. , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > Rajanji I love your analysis! I will pass on my response and your original > message to as well. > > First, what you have to offer is very astute, clean, and well organized! > > My general comment is that the bridge between "Theory" and "Reality" is > created by Grace. Ramana Maharshi once said (to paraphrase) that Divine > Grace is vouchsafed for the True Yogi who has practiced with all his heart > and mind and then surrendered his efforts. Grace is the Ever-Present Reality > that We Already Are. The Advaitic Spiritual practice consists of a > fundamental inward movement where Awareness suddenly becomes Aware of > ItSelf. This is why they say "That Thou Are!" or "Know That by which you > know all else". > > Some quality of awareness permeates across all living beings, animals, > humans, gods, etc. All are aware of their own existence with some degree of > clarity or another. Whereas generally the feeling of existence is associated > with a body (gross or subtle), the ancient Rishis saw that Existence can > also be Experienced as Pure Existence as the Self independent of all bodies. > And That Pure Existence (Sat-Chit-Ananda) is Ever the Same with bodies or > without bodies. > > This is all open to verification as demonstrated by the Sage of Arunachala. > All verification is only Self-Verification. One must turn to one's Own > Awareness and enquire into its nature. All else is speculation which may be > useful for the time being but at some point one must be absolutely direct in > one's enquiry. > > Love to all > Harsha > > > > PBV Rajan [rajanpbv@u...] > Saturday, March 24, 2001 8:53 AM > advaitin > Advaitin, Gods & Moksha > > > Dear Distinguished List members, > Namaste. > > The question raised by Shri Dennis Waite was, as I understood it, Why > Advaitins, who consider world as unreality (as there is only one > reality-which > is themselves), worship a matter like God? > > The answers from most of the active members of the list has been profound > but > not fully convincing. > > I think the answer could be: > > 1) Advaitin is a Hypothesis, it is not an independent religion from Hinduism > nor was it designed to be. Any serious practitioner, if he ever found the > ultimate truth, which the hypothesis so uncompromisingly states, would not > be > available to either announce it or find an audience, because as per its own > theory, there is no one else besides him. > > 2) Vedas, the fundamental scripts on which the Hindu religion was developed, > explicitly accepts the presence of several gods. While it mentions in > passing > the advaitin hypothesis also, it is neither the opening line nor the > concluding line nor the whole content. In short it is much more than one > hypothesis. This has been the basis for different hypothesis developed by > Ramanuja & Madhava among others, although Advaitin was elaborated 3 > centuries > earlier by Sankara. The jury is still out. So Hindus have many Gods and we > have no regrets, whether others like it or not. If we are Pagans, so be it. > > 3) Gods can be interpreted as creations evolved from man upwards with more > powers and senses and option to have a body or not. Simply put, they exist > with specific powers with respect to their own portfolio. They play a senior > management role in the kingdom of God. Man is a citizen. By sadhanas, he too > can get promoted to be a god and be in heaven. If he does not make it, he > gets > transferred to another location on this earth or somewhere lower down, > depending upon his past record. > > 4) The head office is Moksha. After that there are no promotions. He joins > the > Board of Directors (or the cabinet if you are a politician)and the advaitin > hypothesis is that there is only one Director or PM. Other Hindus believe > that > Param Atma is the Chairman or President. This is the end of the journey of > the > soul, which is accepted by all Hindus. Till then-keep trying. > > Whether we as human fashioned our organizations on the basis of Gods own > design or our Rishis designed our concepts on "God & Soul", based on > humans > social organization, literally, only God Knows. > > By the way, the answer to Dennis question still remains outstanding. I am > not > a advaitin scholar so I cannot comment on it. > > Have I got it somewhat right or all wrong? > With Pranams > P.B.V.Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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