re persona (warning - long and incoherent, but my ego's just about to push the send butto...

[Guest guest]

Hi Dharma,

 

 

Thank you for your thoughtful input on this.

 

>Hi Mark,

>Thank you for this reminder. This was an interesting

weekend. I think

>the name game was truly a last ditch strategy to keep

some part of my

>persona intact (some sarcasm directed primarily at

myself perhaps). It

>was all a joke, but at the same time it was all

serious. I am letting

>go of the "professional scientist" part of my mask. It

never fit well in

>the first place, but it was stuck on with a lot of

"real effort glue".

>Peeling it off is not easy.

 

I think it's easier if you just realize that it's a

mask... Neumann, a

Jungian, refers to it as the personality image...

seeing the personality

as the whole level, extending into the subconscious,

and the personality

image as that construct which you think is you...

until you finally

realize it isn't.

 

I see three modes of operating here. One (which I have done for most of

my life, as I suspect have most folks) is to be caught up in the drama -

to identify completely with that personality construct, to believe that

what happens, happens to me, Mark. Another is to see it all for the

play it may well be - to be the still witness commonly referred to as

"that" (or "I am that", or whatever name you like Brahman, God, Spirit,

so many names - you know what I mean.) Somewhere in between (?) is the

being like myself who is aware of these two stances and trying to

determine which one is preferable (okay, perhaps that's the trap, but

let me carry on with this line of reasoning...)

 

So how does that being behave when his career comes to a crashing halt?

Well, force of habit, if nothing else, propels him into emotional states

wherein he questions the outcome of so much hard work. ("Why me, Oh

Lord?") (In particular, why the huge investment only to decide to back

out at the last moment and then to question that decision once it's

essentially too late. Worse, I don't question the outcome of the

decision - I don't want to do research anymore, but still feel the pain

of losing the opportunity and whatever humiliation/shame/fear that

causes.)

 

But at the same time, he (I) may question this questioning and wonder if

it's worth all the energy. Now my experience has not been that the

second question, having arisen negates the first question, but that both

questions rumble around and there seems to be a tug of war, an internal

battle of sorts about what is going on here. So part of me is glad to

be free of science, a lifestyle that didn't suit me. Part of me is

really bummed because he wanted to be a scientist, just didn't really

know what that would entail, and still wishes he could be one, but on

his own terms. Part of me feels he was set up like a bowling pin and

wants to punch the owner of the bowling lanes in the face. Part of me

is watching, hoping to see what the drama was all about (ie to reap a

reward that makes up for not reaping the obvious rewards - success,

security, the respect of my colleagues, etc). Golly, so juicy. Aren't

you glad I'm sharing here?

 

Okay, so now I am pretty deep into my personal story. What if it's JUST

a story? It's a persona, after all, a mask to be donned at will and

taken off at will. Only, that's not true. I can't put this mask back

on. I'm part of an academic community. I won't get a second chance at

this one. (at least not in this lifetime, certainly not at this

institution) So if you take the mask off, you may never be able to put

it back on. It's Pandora's box. Okay, maybe I'm mixing up the mask

itself with the results of wearing the mask, but this is where I am. I'm

exploring taking the mask off, and I'm finding it's not reversible.

Ohhhhh Nooooooooo, Mr. Bill...

 

It's a mask, and you can wear it or not wear it. You

don't have to have

it... though I think we do need to use _some_ persona

when we interact

with other people. Trying to be without any

personality makes Jack a dull

boy. But it doesn't have to be that one. You could

create another

personality image or persona, as many actors do. You

could also use a

persona from another life, if you have the memory. But

it's easiest to

just use the persona you've spent so much time

developing. And knowing

that it's just a mask to use makes a world of

difference.

>As I do so, I find some serious pain in

>concepts such as "failure" and "abandoned",

"rejected", which I am

>probably milking, but that's not the intent. The

intent is to let it

>exhaust itself so that I don't continue to carry it

around.

 

Sometimes when life gets difficult, it's hard to

remember that it's just a

mask and not you... hard to lift away from the

emotions. I once wrote to

Sandeep that I was having a difficult day, and said:

>It may not end for a while - the outcome seems

uncertain. I'm trying not

>to care, but that's like straining to relax! ) Think

I'll go play with

>horoscopes for a while!

 

Sandeep:

>May I suggest that you be aware of the fact that you

care and also be

>aware that you are hoping not to care about the

outcome.

>A witness around whom this drama of caring, not

caring, hoping, fearing,

>expecting a particular "type" of outcome, all this

drama is taking place

>around the witness which is really you. The drama is

not you but the

>witness to the drama is you.

 

Dharma:

>I feel more like an actor on stage. Trouble is, I'm a

"method" actor. Hard

>to step out of it.

 

Sandeep:

>Aren't we all?

>The trick is to remember the "role" one has assumed on

the stage of life.

>Nothing wrong with any "role" and I repeat any "role".

Only remember it is

>a "role" not you.

 

This seems impossible while the emotions are strong, but seems possible

when the storm subsides, so I guess what I am trying on for size is

allowing the emotions to be strong, even accentuating them, so that they

get the exercise they've been denied so long (having been penned up),

and get exhausted, allowing me to shine through again. And since you

guys are here, I'm dragging you along.

-----------------------

 

Mark:

>I think I

>am also debunking the "serious spiritual guy" part of

my mask, and of

>course giving Harsha a hard time simply because I'm

Satan and out to get

>him.

 

Satan? Where did that come from?

 

Well, if we embrace everything, that must be embraced as well. Ohhhh

Noooooo, Mr. Bill..... No, I think this is just a joke to hide my

embarrassment at picking on dear Harsha for no reason and then feeling I

have to continue it like a running joke - some sort of misbegotten

persona fragment. I think I'm still reacting to the sumo wrestler

comments from that previous lifetime when Harsha was named Sahajman.

(never mind, I'm off the tracks again.)

>But seriously, you guys are so helpful in making

something that

>feels serious (even devastating) into a lark. In the

end, I think it'll

>all be just fine.

 

It's the greatest adventure of all! But as my son

has pointed out, an

adventure isn't always fun at the time.

 

Amen to that!

 

Love,

Dharma

 

Love, Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

>I see three modes of operating here. One (which I have done for most of

>my life, as I suspect have most folks) is to be caught up in the drama -

>to identify completely with that personality construct, to believe that

>what happens, happens to me, Mark. Another is to see it all for the

>play it may well be - to be the still witness commonly referred to as

>"that" (or "I am that", or whatever name you like Brahman, God, Spirit,

>so many names - you know what I mean.)

 

But the you behind the mask... the witness... is not what we mean by

THAT. Nothing that exists in this universe in particular is what we mean

by THAT... except in the sense that everything is THAT.

> Somewhere in between (?) is the

>being like myself who is aware of these two stances and trying to

>determine which one is preferable (okay, perhaps that's the trap, but

>let me carry on with this line of reasoning...)

 

Can it really be preferable to think you _are_ the personality image, the

persona, and nothing more? Anyway, I'm not sure that you have that choice,

once you've really seen it for a mask. Sure, it's easy to slip into it in

the moment of anger or the heat of passion, but you know now what it is.

>So how does that being behave when his career comes to a crashing halt?

 

I haven't been reading the list for a while, so I didn't realize this had

happened to you. Sorry to hear about it... it's happened to me several

times, I know it's painful.

>Well, force of habit, if nothing else, propels him into emotional states

>wherein he questions the outcome of so much hard work.

 

I am convinced that no learning (both school learning and experience) is

wasted. Sooner or later, you'll find that what you have learned is coming

in very handy and is very important to everything you are doing then.

> ("Why me, Oh

>Lord?") (In particular, why the huge investment only to decide to back

>out at the last moment and then to question that decision once it's

>essentially too late. Worse, I don't question the outcome of the

>decision

 

Sounds like you _are_ questioning it... but if it's done, might as well

accept and move on.

> - I don't want to do research anymore, but still feel the pain

>of losing the opportunity and whatever humiliation/shame/fear that

>causes.)

 

Yes, what THEY will say! ) Well, if you're going to do unusual things,

you just have to give up caring about what everyone else thinks. If you're

doing what you know is right for you, that's all that's important. And

it's the _best_ you can do.

>But at the same time, he (I) may question this questioning and wonder if

>it's worth all the energy. Now my experience has not been that the

>second question, having arisen negates the first question, but that both

>questions rumble around and there seems to be a tug of war, an internal

>battle of sorts about what is going on here. So part of me is glad to

>be free of science, a lifestyle that didn't suit me. Part of me is

>really bummed because he wanted to be a scientist, just didn't really

>know what that would entail, and still wishes he could be one, but on

>his own terms.

 

Well, you _are_ a scientist. If you drive a taxicab, you'll be a scientist

driving a taxicab. If you have acquired the scientific mindset, then

you're a scientist, whatever your job is.

>Part of me feels he was set up like a bowling pin and

>wants to punch the owner of the bowling lanes in the face.

 

And who do you think set up what was to happen in this life? Gonna punch

yourself in the nose? )

> Part of me

>is watching, hoping to see what the drama was all about (ie to reap a

>reward that makes up for not reaping the obvious rewards - success,

>security, the respect of my colleagues, etc).

 

Yes, there's the question. What's it all about? If this all has a

purpose... and is in line with what you planned for this life... then

what did you intend to result from it?? Possibly not success in the usual

terms... or security or respect. You'll find out, sooner or later... as

you live it. A great adventure!

>Golly, so juicy. Aren't

>you glad I'm sharing here?

 

Yes!!

>Okay, so now I am pretty deep into my personal story. What if it's JUST

>a story? It's a persona, after all, a mask to be donned at will and

>taken off at will. Only, that's not true. I can't put this mask back

>on. I'm part of an academic community. I won't get a second chance at

>this one. (at least not in this lifetime, certainly not at this

>institution) So if you take the mask off, you may never be able to put

>it back on. It's Pandora's box. Okay, maybe I'm mixing up the mask

>itself with the results of wearing the mask, but this is where I am. I'm

>exploring taking the mask off, and I'm finding it's not reversible.

>Ohhhhh Nooooooooo, Mr. Bill...

 

Well, your job wasn't the whole personality image. But maybe leaving the

job is all part of the work you're doing with yourself at this period...

which seems to include demasking... or seeing the mask for what it is.

 

You know, your consciousness is vast, but there's a focus of

consciousness... what you mean when you say "I" without meaning any of the

outward trappings. Just pure "I." And that focus is movable. The guy who

thinks he IS the persona has his focus of consciousness right smack in the

middle of the personality image. Think of yourself holding a mask in front

of your face. You can put your conscious focus in the mask and forget

everything else... or you can put the conscious focus up behind, from

where you can see the mask and know it for what it is.

 

>> Dharma:

>> >I feel more like an actor on stage. Trouble is, I'm a

>>"method" actor. Hard

>> >to step out of it.

>>

>> Sandeep:

>> >Aren't we all?

>>

>> >The trick is to remember the "role" one has assumed on

>>the stage of life.

>> >Nothing wrong with any "role" and I repeat any

"role".

>>Only remember it is

>> >a "role" not you.

>

>This seems impossible while the emotions are strong, but seems possible

>when the storm subsides, so I guess what I am trying on for size is

>allowing the emotions to be strong, even accentuating them, so that they

>get the exercise they've been denied so long (having been penned up),

>and get exhausted, allowing me to shine through again.

 

In my experience, accentuating the emotions on purpose will NOT exhaust

them, though YOU may get exhausted temporarily... it only builds them up

and they get bigger and bigger.

 

That's because of the nature of the beast. The emotions are made of the

very stuff of the astral plane, which has been called the Great Illusion.

As in a dream, you can create things from the stuff of the astral plane...

and make them bigger and badder... or clean them up and put a smile on

them.

 

My carpal tunnel stuff is acting up... must stop writing. Here's

something from my files:

>One day in meditation my spiritual guru said something that made me angry.

>I responded, and he kept answering in the same way... and I became

>angrier and angrier. I found myself unable to move my body, which was

>just as well... I got so angry I wanted to hit him... or hit something!

>) Then suddenly I began to laugh... I saw what he was doing...

>stirring up the anger so I could see it mushrooming... it wasn't anger

>_about_ anything... it's so easy to latch onto some anger... and stir it

>up... and poke it to make it bigger and bigger... but when I saw that,

>it was gone. Poof!

>

>I thought we would work with other emotions, but apparently that was

>enough to show me how they work...

>

>How you can use this: when you feel angry, look at the anger itself.

>Watch it, study it to see what it is... You can program yourself to

>remember to do this with any strong emotion. When you feel a strong

>emotion, you can think, OH, it's a chance to study it! Then look at it,

>see what it is, how it works...

 

Those emotions are just astral stuff... look at them closely, and you'll

see right through them. )

 

Love,

Dharma