of churches and bats and belfries

[Guest guest]

>> I was raised in the Christian Church, and at the moment am trying

to slow release my responsibilities in the church...No longer

believing in a heaven and hell.... No longer believing in the 'one

chance to get it right <<

Ah, Lynette, isn't this one of the most dreadful beliefs ever

perpetrated on and by humans? I was baptized Episcopalian, went to

Methodist church as a young girl, then got converted to Catholicism

with my family, lock, stock and barrel when my mother was searching

for something to hold onto. (I've already said enough about my family

that this group will understand the why of her need.) The Catholic

church got me when I was "ripe" for the picking, just pre-adolescent.

Every meanspirited and nasty thing I was taught to believe about

myself being "BAD" was reinforced spectacularly. When I was 21, I was

still sleeping with a crucifix under my pillow. It has taken me a long

time to release the bats in my belfry. You have great courage and love

to be in this process so consciously and lovingly.

and also...

>> Two weeks ago, my 7 yr old daughter, who's changes have been almost

as fast as my own, said to me " momma, you know when we die, we get to

come back and do this again" <<

I have been reading one of Sylvia Browne's books recently and she

talks about how young children, usually up to the age of about 7,

still recall past lives, may remember their "mission" for this one,

and know/remember other profound spiritual truths. Most parents, the

schools, etc. don't recognize past lives, so children's

knowledge/experience gets invalidated, and eventually many of them/us

go to sleep. (Fortunately, some of us also wake up again.) : )

and...

>> And today I watched her struggle with what the church has taught

her and what her spirit tells her is truth...She said "I dont think

there is a hell, because there are NO bad people... Only sad people

trying to feel better" <<

What an amazing thing for a parent to hear from a child. What a

wonderful thing for her to know and believe this. What a sad thing

for her to be invalidated by her Sunday School teacher. What a

wonderful thing for her to have such an aware, loving, communicative

mother. Thank you so much for sharing this. I recall, from my days

being Catholic, reading a "comic book" I got from church. The story

showed pictures of a little girl who had a little white heart. She

did "bad" things (I don't recall what they were) and got a little bit

of her heart turning black. Then more and more turned black until it

was all black. Bah humbug! What an ugly thing to plant in the mind of

a child.

When my own little girl (now 31) was about 8, she was going to a

"free" school (yes, I was a flower child). I was in college at the

time, so after school she went to a friend's house (this was not a

close friend). One day she asked me if she could go to a bible study

group with the little boy she stayed with. Inwardly I cringed in

horror, but I did not want to plant any negative seeds of any kind,

so I said yes. Then after a couple of weeks, one day after I picked

her up, Amy started talking about her heart turning black. (I

couldn't believe it! This wasn't even a Catholic group. How do these

folks all come up with the same terrifying stuff!) She thought it was

happening to her. I was shocked and outraged, but calmly asked her why

she felt that way. It was because she had forgotten to brush her

teeth. (ARGH!!!!) I calmly told her that her heart would always be

white as new snow and that forgetting to brush your teeth did not

make you "bad." I also told her I didn't think it would be a good

idea for her to continue in the group. I am thankful that she agreed

with me. Shanti ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda:

It's interesting to me that the Catholic Church got to you as a

pre-adolescent with such force. I went to 12 years of Catholic

School and had the black heart theory demonstrated to me when I was 6

years old...in that version I was born with a black heart and it was

turned white (demonstrated on the blackboard) by being baptized. Of

course, those not baptized continued to have a black heart and we

would turn our hearts black by sinning. Maybe because I was so young

and knew better I remember not quite believing the theory. I was a

very devout girl and had plans on becoming a nun until my teens at

which point even while in Catholic high school I stopped going to

mass....which my mother only recently admitted to me flipped her out

as I was the only one of her kids that attended Catholic high school

:-). In retrospect I think that seeing the priests and nuns on a day

to day basis helped me to see that for all of their theories they

were as crazy and angry as the rest of us.....the philosophy lost

much of it's hold on me. However, I do believe that praying and

going to church so often planted some wonderful seeds which flowered

through yoga and the eastern philosophies of my adulthood. Perhaps

coming of age in the hippie days allowed me to rebel against religion

early on with little negative adult impact for as I look back I'm

grateful that there was a spiritual basis in my childhood even if it

was the mis-guided Catholic variety.

Namaste,

Linda

>The Catholic church got me when I was "ripe" for the picking, just

>pre-adolescent. Every meanspirited and nasty thing I was taught to

believe >about myself being "BAD" was reinforced spectacularly. When

I was 21, I was >still sleeping with a crucifix under my pillow. It

has taken me a long time >to release the bats in my belfry. You have

great courage and love to be in >this process so consciously and

lovingly. >>snip>>>. I recall, from my days being Catholic, reading a

"comic book" I >got from church. The story showed pictures of a little

girl who had a little >white heart. She did "bad" things (I don't

recall what they were) and got a >little bit of her heart turning

black. Then more and more turned black until >it was all black. Bah

humbug! What an ugly thing to plant in the mind of a >child.

/joinAll paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

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[Guest guest]

She thought it was happening to her. I was shocked and outraged, but

calmly asked her why she felt that way. It was because she had

forgotten to brush her teeth. (ARGH!!!!) I calmly told her that her

heart would always be white as new snow and that forgetting to brush

your teeth did not make you "bad." I also told her I didn't think it

would be a good idea for her to continue in the group. I am thankful

that she agreed with me. Shanti ~ Linda

Oh Gosh, that is horrible... poor baby.... my 13 yr old daughter,has

been in the church for quite a while, and is having a terrible time

accepting this... I keep telling her not to worry, that she will

understand, just give it time.. I dont talk to her about what I've

been experiencing... unless she asks.... But she worries now all the

time... I have a friend that keeps saying, "you dont have to leave

the church", but I say "yes I do.... do I want my two little ones to

forget so much of their truth, by keeping them in the church? for

me, the church does no harm to me, but I want my children to find

their own truths for themselves..

This past sunday I refused communion... I have been refusing it for

months now.. but this is the first time my 13 yr old noticed.. She

said "mom....!!!!"

I told her simply.."no where in the bible does it say I have to TAKE

communion, to be IN communion with god." I think she understood.

Love, Lynette