re bridges and Jai Uttal

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda,

 

You are quite sweet. Thanks. Jai Uttal has a web site:

http://www.jaiuttal.com/ which links to a schedule for Jai and Geoffrey,

who are based in CA. They are planning a kirtan trip to Bali, which

sounds like fun. I have a brochure somewhere.

 

I think alchoholism is a disease of isolation and hiding the truth, with

alchohol addiction itself a symptom more than the thing itself. I

remember being asked by my Mother when I was young what I wanted to be

when I grew up and answering "a hermit". (I also wanted to be a genius,

and was influenced by Linus from Peanuts to want to be a wild-eyed

fanatic as well.) I was a weird kid. Still am....

 

 

Love, Mark

 

 

Ah, Mark, you shared so much richness about yourself

that I am awed and

speechless. Thank you so much...I appreciate the links

and would very much

like to know more about the chanting you speak of (with

Jai Uttal and

Geoffrey Gordon). Where are they? Is there a website or

a way to contact

them?

 

I also am deeply appreciative of your sharing that you

are an alcoholic. I am

what is known in that paradigm as an ACOA (adult child

of an alcoholic). It

seems we have the same dis-ease and often resort to the

same kinds of

behaviors as alcoholics. I have resorted to some of

them recently (what

Alanonics refer to as an emotional slip), which at

first discourages me, but

them humbles me if I'm of a mind to be humbled (rather

than humiliated). I

believe I am going through something similar (again)

(oh no, not again!) to

the identity crisis you have been speaking of. It is as

though all the

familiar moorings have torn loose or been severed, and

I am standing in the

middle of my life saying to myself, "okay, now what?"

Ack, ack...babbling

again. I believe, now that I have completed this

journey west, which was very

much about solitude and focus inward, that my journey

to the southwest is

partly about community. This is very important to me as

something to be lived

every day. But I also know it will be different from

any community I've been

involved with before. I wonder if that is because I

sense that my spiritual

expression will now be a more significant aspect of

community for me. This

group is becoming that for me, a community, and for

that I'm deeply thankful.

(And aren't some of y'all ~ 'scuse me, my southernese

coming out ~ in the

southwest anywhere?). I will let you know where I land,

and perhaps we will

meet out there. Blessings to you and your journey,

Mark. Shanti ~Linda

[Guest guest]

mark.otter writes:

>I think alchoholism is a disease of isolation and hiding the truth, with

>alchohol addiction itself a symptom more than the thing itself.

 

Hi Mark!

 

I really agree with you (it has even been said that alcoholism is an

illness where one treats loneliness with isolation). As you know,

I am an alcoholic and also a drug addict (having been addicted to pills,

marijuana, cocaine, and speed, and having abused most every illegal

and illegal drug available). Addiction is an ass-kicker of an illness,

one that almost took from me everything I hold dear (I came within a

whisker of losing my life, my family, my career, my freedom, my job

and more).

 

Some people question whether alcoholism is an illness. I myself did

this for quite some time, assuming that I just didn't have enough

"willpower" to stop drinking, even after several bouts of pancreatitis

(before age 30). However, I have now come to see that by any criteria,

it is an illness (alcoholics' bodies have been shown to deal with alcohol

differently than do non-alcoholics).

 

But even more than this, I now realize that much of my illness of

drinking and drugging was spiritual in nature. By this I mean that as

long as I can remember, I have always felt "different," and have always

had a deep longing for something. The first time I drank, this longing

went away, and I'd thought that I'd found the solutions to all my

problems (even though I was only 13, I remember thinking "I must do

this as often as possible!")

 

But then, over time, I needed to drink more and more (and do more and

more drugs) to diminish this longing. Eventually, I found that nothing

I did could make it go away (and that my drinking and drugging had

caused huge problems in every aspect of my life). But even though the

drinking did little to help me feel better, I couldn't for the life of me

go even 12 hours without "medicating" myself with drink or drug.

I lived life like this for many years (the pain increasing and joy

becoming exceedingly rare).

 

Eventually, I was placed in a situation where I essentially had to get

help or die (asking for help was extremely difficult for me, especially

because as a psychiatrist I felt that I "should" know enough to be able

to help myself). And, eventually, I began to realize that this longing

which I had had for as long as I could remember (that alcohol and drugs

initially appeared to diminish) was in fact a longing for God/Truth/Oneness.

 

What I had wanted all along was spiritual connectedness, but I didn't

realize it until I stopped drinking and using drugs.

 

Isn't the dance of life in all its quirkiness and splendor a grand thing?

 

Thanks for listening, and Namasté-

 

Love,

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark and Mike,

>Some people question whether alcoholism is an illness. I myself did

>this for quite some time, assuming that I just didn't have enough

>"willpower" to stop drinking, even after several bouts of pancreatitis

>(before age 30). However, I have now come to see that by any criteria,

>it is an illness (alcoholics' bodies have been shown to deal with alcohol

>differently than do non-alcoholics).

 

I think some alcoholism is genetic, a physical tendency or abnormality that

can be inherited. I have known three people who were serious alcoholics

until they were diagnosed with diabetes and put on strict diabetic diets.

One of them told my parents that she would wake in the night and run to the

fridge for a glass of orange juice... and the feeling was exactly the same

as when she had needed a drink. When my father stopped drinking, he kept

Cokes and candy bars in the fridge, and I always thought that helped him.

When he went to cocktail parties, his friends always had Cokes for him.

 

When Dad stopped, he had to stop completely and never take another drink...

he couldn't have one without going on. I had a drinking problem at one

time, but when I was given the tools to get over my psychological problem,

I stopped drinking in one weekend with no withdrawal symptoms... so I

don't think it was a physical addiction. And I didn't have to avoid all

alcohol; I can have a glass of wine... or two... and stop. But I do

think I have a bit of that inherited problem. I have noticed that if I

have a drink... or two... and feel that I want another one, if I eat

something - and sweets work faster - then I no longer want the drink.

 

I don't mean to minimize your problems... I know this is not a simple

matter and it's enormously difficult. But if there's any diabetic/ blood

sugar component in your individual cases, then knowing that might be of

some help.

 

For what it's worth, I'll add that when I give myself sweets, I feel that

I'm rewarding myself... I feel good. And it's usually chocolate, which

does cause the release of lovely endorphins in the brain.

 

Love,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Thank you Mike for sharing from your heart. And thank you Mark as well for

starting the conversation on alcoholism.

 

Mike, your honesty and straight forwardness about your addiction is very

striking. It seems that deep honesty comes from deep suffering and I can see

you must have suffered much. I am so glad that you are here with us and that

you chose life and life chose you so that you could continue to grow and be

with your family and friends and contribute to your community in a way that

only you can.

 

I liked the clarity with which you explain Mike that the physiology of an

alcoholic is different and responds differently to alcohol. Many of us can

only imagine how difficult that would be.

 

We are all addicted to something in one way or another. That is the nature

of life.

 

May all our addictions transmute into loving kindness. Simultaneously we

forgive others and ourselves and become free to love again. It is possible

because our essential nature is that of Love.

 

Love

Harsha

 

 

UnbrknCh8n [unbrknCh8n]

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:13 AM

Re: re bridges and Jai Uttal

 

 

 

mark.otter writes:

>I think alchoholism is a disease of isolation and hiding the truth, with

>alchohol addiction itself a symptom more than the thing itself.

 

Hi Mark!

 

I really agree with you (it has even been said that alcoholism is an

illness where one treats loneliness with isolation). As you know,

I am an alcoholic and also a drug addict (having been addicted to pills,

marijuana, cocaine, and speed, and having abused most every illegal

and illegal drug available). Addiction is an ass-kicker of an illness,

one that almost took from me everything I hold dear (I came within a

whisker of losing my life, my family, my career, my freedom, my job

and more).

 

Some people question whether alcoholism is an illness. I myself did

this for quite some time, assuming that I just didn't have enough

"willpower" to stop drinking, even after several bouts of pancreatitis

(before age 30). However, I have now come to see that by any criteria,

it is an illness (alcoholics' bodies have been shown to deal with alcohol

differently than do non-alcoholics).

 

But even more than this, I now realize that much of my illness of

drinking and drugging was spiritual in nature. By this I mean that as

long as I can remember, I have always felt "different," and have always

had a deep longing for something. The first time I drank, this longing

went away, and I'd thought that I'd found the solutions to all my

problems (even though I was only 13, I remember thinking "I must do

this as often as possible!")

 

But then, over time, I needed to drink more and more (and do more and

more drugs) to diminish this longing. Eventually, I found that nothing

I did could make it go away (and that my drinking and drugging had

caused huge problems in every aspect of my life). But even though the

drinking did little to help me feel better, I couldn't for the life of me

go even 12 hours without "medicating" myself with drink or drug.

I lived life like this for many years (the pain increasing and joy

becoming exceedingly rare).

 

Eventually, I was placed in a situation where I essentially had to get

help or die (asking for help was extremely difficult for me, especially

because as a psychiatrist I felt that I "should" know enough to be able

to help myself). And, eventually, I began to realize that this longing

which I had had for as long as I could remember (that alcohol and drugs

initially appeared to diminish) was in fact a longing for God/Truth/Oneness.

 

What I had wanted all along was spiritual connectedness, but I didn't

realize it until I stopped drinking and using drugs.

 

Isn't the dance of life in all its quirkiness and splendor a grand thing?

 

Thanks for listening, and Namasté-

 

Love,

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha,

>May all our addictions transmute into loving kindness. Simultaneously we

>forgive others and ourselves and become free to love again. It is possible

>because our essential nature is that of Love.

 

This deserves to be framed and hung over our desks.

 

Thank you,

Dharma

[Guest guest]

Dharma writes:

>I think some alcoholism is genetic, a physical tendency or abnormality that

>can be inherited.

 

I agree. I think that there are many different "kinds" of alcoholism. Some

seem primarily genetic, some more "situational," and some that really don't

fall into any one classification.

>I have known three people who were serious alcoholics

>until they were diagnosed with diabetes and put on strict diabetic diets.

>One of them told my parents that she would wake in the night and run to

>the fridge for a glass of orange juice... and the feeling was exactly the

same

>as when she had needed a drink.

 

That's very interesting. It does indeed seem that many alcoholics have

metabolic abnormalities (although it is often not clear whether these

problems preceded or were caused by alcohol abuse).

>When Dad stopped, he had to stop completely and never take another drink...

>he couldn't have one without going on. I had a drinking problem at one

>time, but when I was given the tools to get over my psychological problem,

>I stopped drinking in one weekend with no withdrawal symptoms... so I

>don't think it was a physical addiction. And I didn't have to avoid all

>alcohol; I can have a glass of wine... or two... and stop. But I do

>think I have a bit of that inherited problem. I have noticed that if I

>have a drink... or two... and feel that I want another one, if I eat

>something - and sweets work faster - then I no longer want the drink.

 

Thanks for sharing this about youself and your family. Many people (if

not most) have been touched in one way or another by problems with

alcohol or drugs (or have their family members or friends).

>I don't mean to minimize your problems... I know this is not a simple

>matter and it's enormously difficult. But if there's any diabetic/ blood

>sugar component in your individual cases, then knowing that might be of

>some help.

 

Again, I agree. And Dharma, I don't at all believe that you are minimizing

my problems. Instead, I realize that you are sharing your own experiences

and knowledge in an attempt to help, and for that I thank you. :-)

>For what it's worth, I'll add that when I give myself sweets, I feel that

>I'm rewarding myself... I feel good. And it's usually chocolate, which

>does cause the release of lovely endorphins in the brain.

 

Oh yes, I love chocolate myself, and I have been known to sit down and eat

large amounts of it. Of course, I have a very addictive nature, and have at

times quite addictively used food, sex, gambling and exercise (in addition to

alcohol and drugs) to alter my mood. Some of my spiritual practices have

even been in an effort to achieve euphoria/bliss, much as I used drugs to

try to obtain the same goal.

 

Gradually, I have been working on letting go of my attachment to feeling

happy or euphoric (just as I've been working on letting go of everything

else in my life). As I continue to do this, my desire to alter my own

reality has gradually decreased. Also, the realization that I don't have to

personally identify with my "story" (my ego, my drama, my past, my

accomplishments and failures, etc.) has also decreased my need to use

substances or behaviors in order to change my feelings or perceptions.

 

Thanks for writing.

 

Love,

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

>Some of my spiritual practices have

>even been in an effort to achieve euphoria/bliss, much as I used drugs to

>try to obtain the same goal.

>

>Gradually, I have been working on letting go of my attachment to feeling

>happy or euphoric (just as I've been working on letting go of everything

>else in my life).

 

"Happy" is an emotion, I think. But Joy is a spirit or soul quality... it

comes from much higher than the emotions. At the first meeting of a new

meditation group, I ask everyone to find his own joy symbol... something

that, when he thinks of it, it brings joy. It may be a scene, a face, a

piece of music... Then they can use this in meditation. If they are

having trouble moving up to the next plane/level/state of consciousness,

they can use the joy symbol... and Joy will lift them up higher. For me

it's Beethoven's joy music.

 

I find that I can be joyful even while not especially happy on a

personality level... what Lynette was saying, I think.

> As I continue to do this, my desire to alter my own

>reality has gradually decreased.

 

I think "my desire to" are the keywords there... with development, one's

"normal" reality IS altered.

 

Love,

Dharma