not true./Mark O

[Guest guest]

- Mark Otter

harsha

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:24 PM

not true.

Dear Harsha,This is not true. I've been pretty depressed these past

two weeks -even to the point of suicidal ideation. I don't know when

Michael is oris not feeling joy, but I doubt very much that my mood

exactly mirrorshis. (I certainly do wish for him and for all of you

to feel joy, andwhen you communicate joy to me, I am empathetic about

it, so by allmeans, please express joy - it lifts my spirits.) You

mention that"a focuses on the aspirations and

experiences ofindividuals on the spiritual path." Do you mean to

limit the focus topositive aspirations and experiences, or are

negative aspirations andexperiences worthy of discussion as well?In

comradeship on the spiritual journey,Markps I don't mean by my post

to imply any judgement of you or any othermember of the list, or to

imply any consistency of attitude on my part.I'm just inquiring into

the implications of your communiques about thepurpose of the list for

posts which focus on negative experiences, oruse negative language, or

generate negative experiences.

Dear Mark,

>From what little I know of Harsha's intentions, and it isn't all that

much...there is no need to hold back sharing your own experiences or

feelings about yourself, however negative or painful they may seem to

you or others. Many have shared their own hearts and this tends most

often to open the hearts of others who hear such honest sharing. Life

may be full of difficulties and suffering and we need not pretend

otherwise. Rather than generate negative experiences in others, these

sort of confessions more often generate compassion.

A sangha is meant to be a place of sanctuary, a place where one may

expect kindness rather than attacks. We are here to share on

another's burdens and sorrows (tho hopefully not to add to them)and

not to pretend all is a bed of roses. For example, if Michael would

say that hearing the term 'beloved' serves his own sense of

separation and is a concept that disturbs him... there is no

presumption that Mark (WW) feels the same way or has this problem.

I'm sure you must be familiar with this concept from psychology of

making "I" statements rather than judgemental "you" statements.

Spiritually, it is rather commonly known that most "you" statements

actually are "I" statements, in the sense that what problems and

failings we tend to see in others is often just as much a reflection

of how we are ourselves or how we see things. Spiritual joy embraces

and is deeper than any mood of depression or sorrow, it can allow

others to feel and be however they are at the moment, without

requiring any change of them.

If we truly wish to communicate with another person, respecting them

and observing basic kindness would seem a good start.

What does a negative aspiration mean to you? perhaps I do not understand what you are asking about?

Love,

Gloria

[Guest guest]

Hi Gloria:

How very well put as usual :-). It is important to remember that the

"spiritual path" is a button pusher and we are not going to agree

with everyone nor are many of us without buttons and at those times

keeping in mind the sangha as a place of sanctuary can help with

keeping the communication at a more thoughtful level.

Namaste,

Linda

. .>A sangha is meant to be a place of sanctuary, a place where one

may >expect kindness rather than attacks. We are here to share on

another's >burdens and sorrows (tho hopefully not to add to them)and

not to pretend >all is a bed of roses. For example, if Michael would

say that hearing the >term 'beloved' serves his own sense of

separation and is a concept that >disturbs him... there is no

presumption that Mark (WW) feels the same way >or has this problem.

I'm sure you must be familiar with this concept from >psychology of

making "I" statements rather than judgemental "you" >statements.

Spiritually, it is rather commonly known that most "you" >statements

actually are "I" statements, in the sense that what problems >and

failings we tend to see in others is often just as much a reflection

>of how we are ourselves or how we see things. Spiritual joy embraces

and >is deeper than any mood of depression or sorrow, it can allow

others to >feel and be however they are at the moment, without

requiring any change >of them.

>If we truly wish to communicate with another person, respecting them

and >observing basic kindness would seem a good start.

Love,

Gloria

/joinAll paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

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