Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 This is a powerful poem for me today as I ponder my career in biomedical engineering, where I killed perhaps 60 or so dogs to try to understand why (and how) bending their bones caused tiny electrical signals to be generated. Why? Because maybe these electric signals are related to osteoporosis and osteoporosis causes a lot of suffering and I don't like suffering. I'm just not sure that it was the right thing to do and I don't understand anything anymore. Some of you say that there is a joy that surrounds and supports all the things that happen and that this joy is more real than the suffering. I don't believe you. Mark, I have no clue how to respond to this.....Just that if you feel it is wrong for you, then feel good that you have made the change. I wont patronize your depth of emotion and pain by spouting philosophy... Just know that there is a skeleton in everyones closet that has caused us grief and despair... I feel your despair... Love, Lynette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 mark.otter writes: >This is a powerful poem for me today as I ponder my career in biomedical >engineering, where I killed perhaps 60 or so dogs to try to understand >why (and how) bending their bones caused tiny electrical signals to be >generated. Why? Because maybe these electric signals are related to >osteoporosis and osteoporosis causes a lot of suffering and I don't like >suffering. Hello Mark. I can relate not just to your pain, but to the issue you mention above. Over the years I have been personally involved in research involving rabbits, mice and rats (meaning I handled the animals, and often was the one responsible for euthanizing them). I have also anesthetized dogs, performed surgery on them, then sacrificed them. Most of this was for "research," although some of it was for my medical education. Was it necessary to kill these gentle creatures for the research I was doing? Probably not (I really can't say for sure because at this point in my life I was a lab assistant, and not a principle investigator). Would I do these things again? Probably not. Actually, I'm not even sure that I could, because lately my compassion for animals (and children) has been enormous, and I'm not sure that I could easily put that aside, whatever the cause. I have come to forgive myself for the animal research I have done. As I see life as eternal (and animals--like people--are manifestations of the Divine) I don't see that I've done any irreparable harm (I actually regret the pain and suffering I caused to the animals more than the taking of their lives). >I'm just not sure that it was the right thing to do and I >don't understand anything anymore. Some of you say that there is a joy >that surrounds and supports all the things that happen and that this joy >is more real than the suffering. I don't believe you. Hey Mark- I love you! Pain and suffering really suck (some may say that this is a judgment that reinforces the individual self, but fuck em! ;-) Let me know if I can do anything for you. Love, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Hi Mark, >This is a powerful poem for me today as I ponder my career in biomedical >engineering, where I killed perhaps 60 or so dogs to try to understand >why (and how) bending their bones caused tiny electrical signals to be >generated. Why? Because maybe these electric signals are related to >osteoporosis and osteoporosis causes a lot of suffering and I don't like >suffering. I'm just not sure that it was the right thing to do Oh Mark, such a difficult thing to cope with! It seems to me that in some things we can never be sure what was the right thing... we just have to make a decision and go with what seems best at the time. When you killed those dogs, you thought your good purpose made it the right thing to do. Now you're not sure... but you're not doing it any more. You did the best you knew at the time, and second-guessing the past is no use... you can't change it that way. What I would do... this is pretty far out, but you could consider it anyway. There is a great spirit or deva in charge of or encompassing all dogs, in and out of incarnation... you could think of him/her as Father Dog or Mother Dog. I would ask to speak to Mother Dog, and I would ask forgiveness. I would tell her what I did and explain why it seemed the right thing to do. And ask her forgiveness for the pain and suffering I caused her little ones. And thank her. And then forgive myself. You need to find a way to forgive yourself, the personality of this life. You were trying to do good, and we all make mistakes. Forgive yourself for the past... >and I >don't understand anything anymore. Well, that can't be quite true. I guess you mean that you're not as certain about many things as you used to be. That isn't so bad, just takes some getting used to. A period of change is never easy and it can be very difficult. So much is changing, so much is different. And you wonder if it's really better... and you wonder if you've made the right decisions... and you wonder what's ahead... and you wonder... I know, because I've been going through a period of change too. So much has changed in my life in recent years, and especially in the last year, and then again just recently... more change! I'm just getting used to my new life now... the dust is still settling. But here's something interesting. Many times when I ask GB, my guide, about this or that, he says, "Just get through this period." He gives me a real sense that it's all right to sleep a little more... all right to give myself that treat... all right to take my time finding a new job... all right not to worry about a million things... that it's important to just get through this time. I hope you can think of that when things seem overwhelming... it's okay not to make that big decision today... it's okay to pamper yourself a little... just get through this period! > Some of you say that there is a joy >that surrounds and supports all the things that happen and that this joy >is more real than the suffering. I don't believe you. What I said was that it's possible to feel the joy at the same time as you feel something different at the personality level. You actually exist on ALL levels, though you're not consciously aware of much of yourself and what's going on beyond your immediate conscious awareness. There is ALWAYS joy at your higher levels... whatever may be going on at the personality level. Being aware of it is just a matter of widening your perception, picking up on more than one level at once. As for what is more _real_, that's a matter of words and perspective, isn't it? If there's a car coming straight at me, it's damn real. And if I don't get out of the way, the consequences will be so real that I really don't want that... so I jump fast! If I get hit and end up in a hospital bed, the pain and suffering may be so extreme that it will be very difficult to be aware of anything else. But the joy will still be there! At a high level I will still be in joy... and if I'm able to be aware of more than one level... widen the scope of my awareness... I can find the joy. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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