Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 JB -- I don't believe the practice of equanimity means accepting situations that may be destructive to us. Forgive me for interpreting a little bit: it seems you are asking for permission to exit/alter this relationship, or at least part of you is. I would focus on this "agent" whose permission you need. This is the power that actually traps you. This could be parental, cultural or some other kind of expectation for yourself that you still hold -- you'll have to go on a deep search to find the source. When it truly is okay with this agent (you) if you leave the relationship, you might actually find the freedom to remain. The decision to go or stay will become much clearer. I have to go through much more mundane variants of this process with my husband all the time. The "problem" is always ultimately within me and when I identify how I am still reinforcing egoic images internally, I know what to do to handle each situation. With love, Holly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 >>> JB789 04/05/01 10:40AM >>> Hi (snipped major text) Apart from 'all is illusion.. your not the body, mind, emotions, ears, words..you are -That' what else would you say to this poor chap in despair ? JB JB, It sounds like the only question remaining is why are you thinking of staying in this relationship? It sounds torturous to you. Recently you asked the list this question and framed it in terms of your spiritual growth. I remember you saying that you felt your energy and growth were drained and hampered in this relationship. The other jb answered that that in itself was a good indicator that you should move out of this. I agree. Jill /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription between digest and normal mode. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 I assume you are inviting comments and suggestions. Here goes: , JB789@h... wrote: > It is about communication in an intimate relationship. > About her incomplete messages (I have to guess the first/half part), > .. her apparent living in her private world of -romantic mentality > which wanting undisturbed, looks away from the actuality of our > relating. About my being drained of energy, when having to often > repeat a statement or practical info, at least 3 times before being > heard.. and sometimes not even then,.. This is incredibly judgmental on your part. See comments below. > > For an occasional misunderstanding or not listening,..getting a talk > about 'sugar' as a reply to 'please, pass the salt'.. however off > that might be, one does not have to be a Buddha to menage without > great irritation. But how about 20 of such incidents a day ? > Personally, at some point, the body starts to shake inwardly and > despair sets in. Because after 5 years of making her aware of > this, .. talking.. talking.. well I am burned out by now. > > A couple of 'communication' samples: > - Passing by a grocer's I say: Look at those nice melons.. should'nt > we buy one ?.. her reply: 'oh yes, lemon, we need lemon.. let's buy > lemon !' . I say ' but, what about the melon ?..' .. she:'for the > fish, lemon for the fish..' I say: 'ok, but I asked about the > melon .. why do you keep on talking about lemon ?'.. she:'because, I > ahve some very nice fish home and it needs lemon..' This makes me laugh. You say that your partner doesn't communicate. Who isn't communicating. You are thinking of melons, she of lemons, so who isn't listening to who? Just because you are thinking of melons doesn't mean partner must also think about melons, does it? It seems like you were refusing to think about lemons, from partners point of view. > Well I'd better stop before I provoke too much detached/nondualistic > thinking in the reader. > > But imagine yourself exposed to this input hundreds of times... > Where would your non-reactional awareness beyond good/bad, be at ? > Should one carry on with it, in the name of 'seeing ones reactions' > and not escaping ? > > With age, the sexual togetherness naturally withers (unless you're > willing to torture yourself with 'tantric' manipulation).. so if > there is not some sane verbal communication, what is -left ? > > As for the non-verbal one,.. the Being/unconditional love, .. can > that fragile flower of communion be, if the verbal is utter chaos, > feeding a lot of high-blood pressure, nervous states etc. ? > Can that communion be, when one abides in complete Non-Presence.. > except for her presence to her own personal univers' romantic > creations ? > To be honest, at times I feel that either I get a nervous breakdown or > become apathetic, speechless and with a voluntarily numbed > sensitivity to what's happening around me.. (no see/no hear),.. > called perhaps manio-depression. > > There is love for her, so there is this dilemma. > > > Apart from 'all is illusion.. your not the body, mind, emotions, > ears, words..you are -That' what else would you say to this poor chap > in despair ? > > JB JB: After my personal experiences, I have concluded that relationships should be based upon maximum tolerance. We have been handed a load of false expectations in what is taught about relationships: there are no clear communications, no ideal moments of sexual bliss, no perfect sunny days when being with the other is smooth with not a hair out of place...what is is what is. Lets stare reality in the face and get on with it. "THere is love for her", and if so, there is no dilemna. What is love to you? Your programmed responses to what arises is getting in the way of love, if you ask me. So wake up, smell the roses that are right in front of you and apply some mindfulness, equanimity, and guess what? I would say that you would no longer be some poor chap in despair. Love, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Apart from 'all is illusion.. your not the body, mind, emotions, ears, words..you are -That' what else would you say to this poor chap in despair ? Oh my JB..... I'm dizzy from reading.... {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} is all this chatterbox woman can give you. Love, Lynette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Hi Am rather tired, so I'll make it short. , tmnabata@h... wrote: > I assume you are inviting comments and suggestions. Here goes: > > , JB789@h... wrote: > > > It is about communication in an intimate relationship. > > About her incomplete messages (I have to guess the first/half part), > > .. her apparent living in her private world of -romantic mentality > > which wanting undisturbed, looks away from the actuality of our > > relating. About my being drained of energy, when having to often > > repeat a statement or practical info, at least 3 times before being > > heard.. and sometimes not even then,.. > > This is incredibly judgmental on your part. See comments below. > > ### At least some of the things I mention,.. are _facts. But you seem to treat them as the holy what-is, to be put up with forever and ever, even at the cost of making the body'mind chronically ill. It is a form of idealism..(accept, etc.) which believe it or not, I've been doing for years. > > > > For an occasional misunderstanding or not listening,..getting a talk > > about 'sugar' as a reply to 'please, pass the salt'.. however off > > that might be, one does not have to be a Buddha to menage without > > great irritation. But how about 20 of such incidents a day ? > > Personally, at some point, the body starts to shake inwardly and > > despair sets in. Because after 5 years of making her aware of > > this, .. talking.. talking.. well I am burned out by now. > > > > A couple of 'communication' samples: > > - Passing by a grocer's I say: Look at those nice melons.. should'nt > > we buy one ?.. her reply: 'oh yes, lemon, we need lemon.. let's buy > > lemon !' . I say ' but, what about the melon ?..' .. she:'for the > > fish, lemon for the fish..' I say: 'ok, but I asked about the > > melon .. why do you keep on talking about lemon ?'.. she:'because, I > > ahve some very nice fish home and it needs lemon..' > > This makes me laugh. You say that your partner doesn't communicate. > Who isn't communicating. You are thinking of melons, she of lemons, > so who isn't listening to who? Just because you are thinking of > melons doesn't mean partner must also think about melons, does it? It > seems like you were refusing to think about lemons, from partners > point of view. > ### With all respect, .. but this is precisely the type of 'communication' I am talking about, and I find draining. To start to unwind the spagetti-structure of such a logic, would take too much energy, and I do not have it, at the present time. It is not a matter of having/not the right to think about whatever.. It is a matter about of _response... If you say: 'please pass me the salt'.. and I say :'yeah, the ocean water is not sweet is it ?.. do you remember when we ate Thai food ?.. it had so much chilli,... who would want any salt .. sugar!, much better'.. Would you just say to yourself : what-is what-is compassion compassion, and keep on smiling/accepting ? Ok,.. once in a while,.. how about 20 time a day fo this kind of communication ? > > Well I'd better stop before I provoke too much detached/nondualistic > > thinking in the reader. > > > > But imagine yourself exposed to this input hundreds of times... > > Where would your non-reactional awareness beyond good/bad, be at ? > > Should one carry on with it, in the name of 'seeing ones reactions' > > and not escaping ? > > > > With age, the sexual togetherness naturally withers (unless you're > > willing to torture yourself with 'tantric' manipulation).. so if > > there is not some sane verbal communication, what is -left ? > > > > As for the non-verbal one,.. the Being/unconditional love, .. can > > that fragile flower of communion be, if the verbal is utter chaos, > > feeding a lot of high-blood pressure, nervous states etc. ? > > Can that communion be, when one abides in complete Non-Presence.. > > except for her presence to her own personal univers' romantic > > creations ? > > To be honest, at times I feel that either I get a nervous breakdown > or > > become apathetic, speechless and with a voluntarily numbed > > sensitivity to what's happening around me.. (no see/no hear),.. > > called perhaps manio-depression. > > > > There is love for her, so there is this dilemma. > > > > > > Apart from 'all is illusion.. your not the body, mind, emotions, > > ears, words..you are -That' what else would you say to this poor > chap > > in despair ? > > > > JB > > JB: After my personal experiences, I have concluded that relationships > should be based upon maximum tolerance. ### yes, tolerance,.. done that for years,..but maybe I am not strong enough to follow that 'should'.. my body-mind breaks down, you see. We have been handed a load of > false expectations ### false expectations ?.. is my 'expectation' to 'get the salt' instead of a lecture on Thai spices, a terrible 'demand' ? in what is taught about relationships: there are no > clear communications, no ideal moments of sexual bliss, no perfect > sunny days when being with the other is smooth with not a hair out of > place...what is is what is. Lets stare reality in the face and get on > with it. "THere is love for her", and if so, there is no dilemna. > What is love to you? Your programmed responses to what arises is > getting in the way of love, if you ask me. So wake up, smell the > roses that are right in front of you and apply some mindfulness, > equanimity, and guess what? I would say that you would no longer be > some poor chap in despair. Love, Terry ### I am not looking for perfection in a relationship. I know there is not. Just a bit of simple sanity. Some, of less spiritual mentality/ideals, suggest that she might have attention deficit disorder. Thanks for your time. jb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Hi Holly And thanks. I found very significant what you wrote about: >it > seems you are asking for permission to exit/alter this relationship, or at > least part of you is. I would focus on this "agent" whose permission you > need. This is the power that actually traps you. This could be parental, > cultural or some other kind of expectation for yourself that you still hold > -- you'll have to go on a deep search to find the source. I was suspecting something like this for a while. It is so, that my mother and father had a rather unhappy relationship. She would be insecure he would live her.. much screaming thru the years. When a child of 3, (so my father told me) my mother threatened with killing me if my father left her. Finally, when of advanced age.. over 60, he did leave without telling of it.. moved to another country ... I had to listen to much of my mother's cries and bitterness,.. though just via telephone/letters, since I was also in another country. When I was a child, I would be woken up by screams of jealousy of my mother, when father would come home late. They're now both dead, and I am 56... but perhaps this still haunts me.. and paralyses me from acting.. since I think that if I leave it wiuld hurt her deeply.. though I know she would not scream like my mother.. good point. But I also doubt, whether the acknowledgement of this fact-or, would do anything at all, in this actual situation. Thanks again. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Dear JB: Just a quick reply. I am sorry if my response came across as spiritual idealism. I was trying to be practical. When I say relationships are not perfect, I also mean that what manifests as spiritual reality is also not "perfect". Maximum tolerance is not meant as a judgment of your tolerance, but a pointing to the fact that in some sense, all relationships are the same, and that each one will end up with flaws and so on. You mentioned love. This is very important. If, in the midst of all this trouble, there is love, then I see hope. You must be very kind and tolerant to have gone through this, and to seek support in this very public forum. I wish you well, however you resolve this situation. Love Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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