Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Dear Amanda, Mark, and JB. > And why is it that I can't chomp on Mark, Wim ??? Did you put this line there at the bottom of your post to Mark to check out whether I read all the messages? Well, I do. Chomp? You know, Amanda, I think that Mark did such a good thing to be so forthright about his predicaments. He even indirectly got JB to tell us about what is behind his "Don't tell me it is all is illusion.. you're not the body, mind, emotions, ears, words..you are -That" line. Mark and JB, I think both of you deserve a good cry... What can we do Amanda to get that to happen, I don't think chomping helps... You know Mark and JB, about four years ago I went through weeks of crying, I did not even know what is was about, I just needed to, had to... The "Why?" came later with the answer not too much after that... Love, Wim. PS for Mark "Chomping wood, recycling water?" Mark, tears feel better than letting go of the other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Wonderful Vicky the way you radiate - and I experience it - you are what I call a MENSCH. Some jewish folks use this express to wish you the BEST possible be a mensch A real human being.... What you are experiencing in this lifetime together is - in my humble opinion - t h e chance of experiencing real LOVE to each other which is the best test - again in my opinion - to learn to LOVE GD THE ALMIGHTY Vicky and Bob thank you for being with me I learn soooo much thru your trying... sorry for my lacking capability to express what did go on reading your lines in "me" in love and gratitude Michael Bindel - "skiplaurel" <vicki <> Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:12 AM Tears > Tears > > I have shed an awful lot of tears in my lifetime. Bob and I saw a family counselor last week (at my insistence). He is as stoic as the next guy, but every now and then I need a reality check. Does he really have incurable cancer and are we really doing okay with that? That is a stupid question. No one "does okay" under those circumstances. You simply do the best you can and on any given day, you may suddenly crash, ripping right through reality and landing in a pile of "Oh, God, say it's not so." > > It is so, and even God is silent on this subject. I, however, got my full fifty-minutes' worth. We have seen this counselor before and I like the way he quotes Rumi. I told him about my website and that I worried about being too introverted. He said a few lines of Rumi, about "I've given you the poems," or something like that. He makes everything seem perfectly reasonable. > > Bob said he was concerned about asbestos in our drinking water and the counselor said, "Maybe you wouldn't feel quite so guilty about being sick if you could find a reason....." So Bob paid some money to a lab only to be told that no asbestos was to be found. We live in a neighborhood with far too many cases of cancer. > > Every night I take a walk and see reality up close and personal. A white cat sits on the driveway. A party is going on at the community pool. People are pruning and planting. Life is good even when it's not. I look at tree bark and listen to kids playing. I come back in and turn on the television, have something to eat. Tonight Bob starts back on the drug that gave him seizures; only now he is on Dilantin. The two of us are tough right in the middle of it all. Even so, one of us cries more than the other. > > Vicki Woodyard > http://www.bobwoodyard.com > > > > > /join > > > > > > "Love itself is the actual form of God." > > Sri Ramana > > In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Thank you Vicki for your sharing. We are listening and are with you and are holding you and Bob in our hearts. Love, Harsha , "skiplaurel" <vicki@b...> wrote: > Tears > > I have shed an awful lot of tears in my lifetime. Bob and I saw a family counselor last week (at my insistence). He is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Vicki Dearest, the picture here is entitled "Portrait of an old man as the Apostle Paul." It is by Rembrandt, which you probably know, and it hangs in the National Gallery in London. I first saw it about three years ago, on my first visit to the gallery. It is a big picture, and it is the first thing that captures your attention when you walk into the Rembrandt room. You can't see it very well from this reproduction, but when you look into the eyes that Rembrandt has drawn you see, if you are open to it, an extraordinary tenderness. You see into the soul of someone who has seen and experienced immense suffering but who hasn't been at all embittered by this experience. You see how the experience of life has created a soul open and loving and compassionate. When I saw it I burst into tears. And other people react in the same way, too. When I read your postings where you talk about your suffering, the death of your child and the impending death of your husband, I feel a deep communion with you. We are all in this situation. We are all children of time, not knowing when our time will be over but knowing most certainly that it will end, sooner or later. You have more reminders than most, and I thank you for reminding me and the rest of us. Your husband as any kind of recognizable person will certainly die. And you and Warwick, as any kind of recognizable persons, will certainly die. And all our achievements, and all our good deeds and all our blunders will be extinguished and eventually forgotten. And there is not just one death; there are many little deaths. As the French say, "To say goodbye is to die a little." But you are still strong and vigorous, and you have the strength to look squarely into the face of death and ask, "What is it that lives, and what is it that dies. And is there something, whatever it might be, that is not subject to change and not subject to death. Everything that is subject to change will die. The earth and all its creatures will die eventually. So what did Jesus mean when he said: "I" is the way, and "I" is the truth, and "I" is the light. What was Paul Simon getting at, what did he see vaguely, from the corner of his eye, as it were, when he wrote; Maybe we'll be obliged to defend, every love, every ending, Or maybe we all shall be received, in Graceland. To imagine the world and life going on and on and on, endlessly, while I am dead forever, is agony. But is that true? Is that the way it is? Is life really just a cruel joke played on helpless creatures by a malevolent Creator? What would be the escape from, or relief from, death? Would it be the endless continuation of activity as physical body? Or would it be the endless continuation of activity as an immaterial soul, as is the conventional view? And what do the sages mean when they say you are already eternal? Very much love Warwick --- Original Message ----- skiplaurel Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:12 AM Tears TearsI have shed an awful lot of tears in my lifetime. Bob and I saw a family counselor last week (at my insistence). He is as stoic as the next guy, but every now and then I need a reality check. Does he really have incurable cancer and are we really doing okay with that? That is a stupid question. No one "does okay" under those circumstances. You simply do the best you can and on any given day, you may suddenly crash, ripping right through reality and landing in a pile of "Oh, God, say it's not so."It is so, and even God is silent on this subject. I, however, got my full fifty-minutes' worth. We have seen this counselor before and I like the way he quotes Rumi. I told him about my website and that I worried about being too introverted. He said a few lines of Rumi, about "I've given you the poems," or something like that. He makes everything seem perfectly reasonable.Bob said he was concerned about asbestos in our drinking water and the counselor said, "Maybe you wouldn't feel quite so guilty about being sick if you could find a reason....." So Bob paid some money to a lab only to be told that no asbestos was to be found. We live in a neighborhood with far too many cases of cancer.Every night I take a walk and see reality up close and personal. A white cat sits on the driveway. A party is going on at the community pool. People are pruning and planting. Life is good even when it's not. I look at tree bark and listen to kids playing. I come back in and turn on the television, have something to eat. Tonight Bob starts back on the drug that gave him seizures; only now he is on Dilantin. The two of us are tough right in the middle of it all. Even so, one of us cries more than the other.Vicki Woodyardhttp://www.bobwoodyard.com/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Attachment: (image/jpeg) Rembrandt Elderly man as Saint Paul.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Dear Warwick thank you for this loving letter you touched me and helped me too if you find this foto somewhere where I can look at it thank you In love for the Almighty om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Michael Bindel - Warwick Wakefield Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:18 AM Re: Tears Vicki Dearest, the picture here is entitled "Portrait of an old man as the Apostle Paul." It is by Rembrandt, which you probably know, and it hangs in the National Gallery in London. I first saw it about three years ago, on my first visit to the gallery. It is a big picture, and it is the first thing that captures your attention when you walk into the Rembrandt room. You can't see it very well from this reproduction, but when you look into the eyes that Rembrandt has drawn you see, if you are open to it, an extraordinary tenderness. You see into the soul of someone who has seen and experienced immense suffering but who hasn't been at all embittered by this experience. You see how the experience of life has created a soul open and loving and compassionate. When I saw it I burst into tears. And other people react in the same way, too. When I read your postings where you talk about your suffering, the death of your child and the impending death of your husband, I feel a deep communion with you. We are all in this situation. We are all children of time, not knowing when our time will be over but knowing most certainly that it will end, sooner or later. You have more reminders than most, and I thank you for reminding me and the rest of us. Your husband as any kind of recognizable person will certainly die. And you and Warwick, as any kind of recognizable persons, will certainly die. And all our achievements, and all our good deeds and all our blunders will be extinguished and eventually forgotten. And there is not just one death; there are many little deaths. As the French say, "To say goodbye is to die a little." But you are still strong and vigorous, and you have the strength to look squarely into the face of death and ask, "What is it that lives, and what is it that dies. And is there something, whatever it might be, that is not subject to change and not subject to death. Everything that is subject to change will die. The earth and all its creatures will die eventually. So what did Jesus mean when he said: "I" is the way, and "I" is the truth, and "I" is the light. What was Paul Simon getting at, what did he see vaguely, from the corner of his eye, as it were, when he wrote; Maybe we'll be obliged to defend, every love, every ending, Or maybe we all shall be received, in Graceland. To imagine the world and life going on and on and on, endlessly, while I am dead forever, is agony. But is that true? Is that the way it is? Is life really just a cruel joke played on helpless creatures by a malevolent Creator? What would be the escape from, or relief from, death? Would it be the endless continuation of activity as physical body? Or would it be the endless continuation of activity as an immaterial soul, as is the conventional view? And what do the sages mean when they say you are already eternal? Very much love Warwick --- Original Message ----- skiplaurel Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:12 AM Tears TearsI have shed an awful lot of tears in my lifetime. Bob and I saw a family counselor last week (at my insistence). He is as stoic as the next guy, but every now and then I need a reality check. Does he really have incurable cancer and are we really doing okay with that? That is a stupid question. No one "does okay" under those circumstances. You simply do the best you can and on any given day, you may suddenly crash, ripping right through reality and landing in a pile of "Oh, God, say it's not so."It is so, and even God is silent on this subject. I, however, got my full fifty-minutes' worth. We have seen this counselor before and I like the way he quotes Rumi. I told him about my website and that I worried about being too introverted. He said a few lines of Rumi, about "I've given you the poems," or something like that. He makes everything seem perfectly reasonable.Bob said he was concerned about asbestos in our drinking water and the counselor said, "Maybe you wouldn't feel quite so guilty about being sick if you could find a reason....." So Bob paid some money to a lab only to be told that no asbestos was to be found. We live in a neighborhood with far too many cases of cancer.Every night I take a walk and see reality up close and personal. A white cat sits on the driveway. A party is going on at the community pool. People are pruning and planting. Life is good even when it's not. I look at tree bark and listen to kids playing. I come back in and turn on the television, have something to eat. Tonight Bob starts back on the drug that gave him seizures; only now he is on Dilantin. The two of us are tough right in the middle of it all. Even so, one of us cries more than the other.Vicki Woodyardhttp://www.bobwoodyard.com/join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 - Michael Bindel Dear Warwickthank you for this loving letter you touched me and helped me tooif you find this foto somewhere where I can look at it thank youIn love for the Almighty om namo bhagavate sri ramanayaMichael Bindel ************************************************************** Hi Michael, you can find many reproductions of Rembrandt's paintings by typing "Rembrandt" into the Google search engine; that's how I got this one. When you have the picture on the screen you put your mouse arrow up around the topleft corner and some icons will come up giving you a choice of downloading or sending to a friend or whatever. Choose download. Much love Warwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 , "Warwick Wakefield" <formandsubstance@t...> wrote: > Vicki Dearest, > > > the picture here is entitled "Portrait of an old man as the Apostle Paul." > It is by Rembrandt, which you probably know, and it hangs in the National Gallery in London. > > I first saw it about three years ago, on my first visit to the gallery. > It is a big picture Yes, you have drawn the big picture...thank you. We are each working on our little corner, busily drawing solace from "our part" in it...while all the time Eternity smiles. It cannot do otherwise. The tears are mystery drops. Love, Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 - skiplaurel To: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:23 AM Re: TearsYes, you have drawn the big picture...thank you. We are each working on our little corner, busily drawing solace from "our part" in it...while all the time Eternity smiles. It cannot do otherwise.The tears are mystery drops.Love, Vicki**************************************************8 Vicki Dearest, There is a crucial point I would like to make here. The beauty of the world, the sowing and the reaping of the harvests, the exquiste shape and colour of flowers and trees, the spontaneity of young children; this is not the what is meant by the joy of "here and now." The joy of here and now lies not in the objects that you perceive if your attention is focused on those things that are in front of you, here and now. This is a huge mistake. The sacredness, the beauty and the joy of "here and now", lies in the perception of that which is inside, not that which is happening, or existing, in front of one. Therapists have utterly distorted the significance of "here and now." They have given us to believe that if we pay attention to the things and events that can be observed "here and now", we will be free from the distress contained in our minds, and we will be happy. This is utterly wrong. The importance of "here and now " is that it is not the realm of things and events, it is the realm of the unchanging consciousness, which is found within. Things and events, children at play and birds singing, although they belong to the "natural world", still belong to the world of time and form, and to be focused in the world of time and form, things and events, no matter how beautiful they may be, is to be focused in the realm of suffering. I know the usual theory; it goes like this: "you are caught up in your worries, your fears and expectations, the scenarios you create in your mind about what might happen -- just pay attention to what is happening right here, now, and you will be free from the fears created by your imaginings " This is terrible advice. This is totally misleading advice to a truth-seeker. What is to be found, or seen, here and now, has nothing to do with observing the beauty of nature and the kindness of ordinary people. That is a HUGE mistake. What is to be found here and now, the sacredness of what is here and now, is what is ALWAYS here and now. What is always here and now is only the formless witness; "I", the Self, pure consciousness. Vicki, you ARE the formless witness, you have always been the formless witness, it is not possible for you not to be the formless witness. The formless witness was never born. The formless witness will never die. Your husband is the formless witness; he will never die. Your child also is (not was) the formless witness; she never died. You as a person will die. Your husband as a person will die. You and Warwick as persons will die. But persons is not what we are. Vicki, find that non-person which you are. That eternal and changeless something which you are. It is not difficult. It is not, as they say, rocket science. Vicki, forget about the the trees and the birds and the children playing; these are simply distractions until you at least are given a glimpse of this unchanging consciousness that you are. Furthermore, the beauty of the birds and trees and children playing, the beauty that is without attachment, is not in these things themselves; their beauty lies in the presence in which they exist, the Self in which they exist. This is why, to one who knows who she truly is, all things, all ordinary things, are fulfilling, are perfect or divine or whatever word you want to use. Maybe you can read books about the truth, and when they make statements about the truth, look inside and check it out. See teachers. Do whatever your creativity suggests, but do not get caught in the trap of thinking that the understanding of the divine comes from observing what is going on outside you, here and now. Very much love Warwick /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Sponsor LinksTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Dear Warwick, thank you for your posting to Vicky. Its great to know this truth INSIDE - and greater to live accordingly. Live accordingly especially if you are in deep love with "family"..... Living this love and not being "attached"..... tell me about your practical experiences living this wonderful truth, which I share... In deep respect Michael Bindel - Warwick Wakefield Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:00 AM Re: Re: Tears - skiplaurel To: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:23 AM Re: TearsYes, you have drawn the big picture...thank you. We are each working on our little corner, busily drawing solace from "our part" in it...while all the time Eternity smiles. It cannot do otherwise.The tears are mystery drops.Love, Vicki**************************************************8 Vicki Dearest, There is a crucial point I would like to make here. The beauty of the world, the sowing and the reaping of the harvests, the exquiste shape and colour of flowers and trees, the spontaneity of young children; this is not the what is meant by the joy of "here and now." The joy of here and now lies not in the objects that you perceive if your attention is focused on those things that are in front of you, here and now. This is a huge mistake. The sacredness, the beauty and the joy of "here and now", lies in the perception of that which is inside, not that which is happening, or existing, in front of one. Therapists have utterly distorted the significance of "here and now." They have given us to believe that if we pay attention to the things and events that can be observed "here and now", we will be free from the distress contained in our minds, and we will be happy. This is utterly wrong. The importance of "here and now " is that it is not the realm of things and events, it is the realm of the unchanging consciousness, which is found within. Things and events, children at play and birds singing, although they belong to the "natural world", still belong to the world of time and form, and to be focused in the world of time and form, things and events, no matter how beautiful they may be, is to be focused in the realm of suffering. I know the usual theory; it goes like this: "you are caught up in your worries, your fears and expectations, the scenarios you create in your mind about what might happen -- just pay attention to what is happening right here, now, and you will be free from the fears created by your imaginings " This is terrible advice. This is totally misleading advice to a truth-seeker. What is to be found, or seen, here and now, has nothing to do with observing the beauty of nature and the kindness of ordinary people. That is a HUGE mistake. What is to be found here and now, the sacredness of what is here and now, is what is ALWAYS here and now. What is always here and now is only the formless witness; "I", the Self, pure consciousness. Vicki, you ARE the formless witness, you have always been the formless witness, it is not possible for you not to be the formless witness. The formless witness was never born. The formless witness will never die. Your husband is the formless witness; he will never die. Your child also is (not was) the formless witness; she never died. You as a person will die. Your husband as a person will die. You and Warwick as persons will die. But persons is not what we are. Vicki, find that non-person which you are. That eternal and changeless something which you are. It is not difficult. It is not, as they say, rocket science. Vicki, forget about the the trees and the birds and the children playing; these are simply distractions until you at least are given a glimpse of this unchanging consciousness that you are. Furthermore, the beauty of the birds and trees and children playing, the beauty that is without attachment, is not in these things themselves; their beauty lies in the presence in which they exist, the Self in which they exist. This is why, to one who knows who she truly is, all things, all ordinary things, are fulfilling, are perfect or divine or whatever word you want to use. Maybe you can read books about the truth, and when they make statements about the truth, look inside and check it out. See teachers. Do whatever your creativity suggests, but do not get caught in the trap of thinking that the understanding of the divine comes from observing what is going on outside you, here and now. Very much love Warwick /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Sponsor LinksTo visit your group on the web, go to:/ To from this group, send an email to: Your use of Groups is subject to the /join "Love itself is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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