On various teachers...long

[Guest guest]

Scuse the length, but tho't may be of interest to some who like to compare gurus.... Gloria

Message: 2 Thu, 05 Apr 2001 13:10:25 -0000

daveoshana (AT) hotmail (DOT) comSubject: John de Ruiter, Andrew Cohen and me,

and a spare under-inflated egoDear Heather,I loved your letter. It

really is so very well put, and really speaks for itself. I cannot

comment for sure about why you had a hard exciting teacher and then a

softer calmer one and how that all worked for your growth. I do not

even know what led to my own awakening.My first consideration is to

ask if there is anything more that you need? I am sure that you would

ask if that was so.I didn't name "A" because the email was slightly

critical though it was mostly affectionate towards "A". A is someone

who was an Osho Sannyasin and then with Poonja (Papaji).I could have

named "A" to stir up some controversy and thereby generate some

attention for my work as your teacher Andrew Cohen has unavoidably

done in the past. But I generally feel all teachers are

well-intentioned, and one day I will meet some of them, and I would

hope that the meeting is more beautiful than intellectual.I met

Andrew over 10 years ago. After that time I met softer teachers too.

Andrew seemed gesturally pugnacious, he would laugh nasally and cackle

at certain type of `out of bounds' questions. I hear that he likes

watching boxing matches. I felt challenged by him but also lost by

his concepts. There seemed little time to speak to him and he seemed

to smirk at people's questions. There was a vibe from a notional

`security team' around him that seemed to repel people. I later heard

of some `persistent' questioners being ejected. I also heard that

Andrew has been challenged by other teachers who were with Papaji. As

you know I prefer the gentle approach.I would say that when I met

Andrew he had no practices or structure that was `scary'. Now, I hear

that there is a structure.People talk of a powerful energy about

Andrew, they say he got it as a gift from Papaji. Whatever is the

case - simply that `energy' is more than sufficient to create a huge

buzz - regardless of the philosophy being spoken. I did wonder if all

the practices and discussions on Andrew's retreats are just like

energetic waiting rooms, since people may require something to do

until they get to see the main man - the source.It may start to seem

that I have a strong viewpoint on Andrew - I don't. All teachers are

enigmas and have unique expressions. They do their best to help

people to get `IT'. Andrew was around in the early days. I felt a

power around him but never understood what was going on.I don't speak

of the ego much. But let's say I do massage it. until it dissolves!

All this talk of ego and trying to do things just seems to create

another ego, and they are all illusory. There was a lot of efforting

going on in Andrew's group when I was there, or so it seemed, though

I can see some people got into all kinds of states too. Maybe

Andrew helped tire your ego out. I don't know if he would see it that

way. As I say I don't really see the ego. I just see if there is a

capacity to experience/catch the fullness of Being Alive in all parts

of one's Being. I also apply a little shoe-horn and almond oil to

stretch that space - it's almost imperceptible unless you are very

sensitive.It sounds like something really great is happening with you

and you are just seeking a bit of understanding. I am guessing is your

new teacher the latest big splash in the pool - John de Ruiter?I met

John 4 years ago and people still remember the taped conversations

that I had with him ("From Endarkenment to Enlightenment" and "The

Still .Voice"(?). I don't have either of them) . That was before my

Awakening. I did half a longish, 2 hour conversation with John the

first night he was in London few months ago. I was hoping to hear

Mira, Papaji's wife, talk with John. She didn't so I decided that I

wanted to speak and was lucky to be given a chance to have the mic. I

raised some questions about statements he had made - partly what I had

thought up myself and partly what some people in Mira's entourage had

been talking about by way of comparison with Papaji and Advaita. Mira

later met John a few days later, I missed it for my sins!John is also

difficult to fully understand. He speaks a lot less than Andrew. Both

have powerful energies. Interestingly, in the Total Freedom Dialogue

meetings we get quite a few people who have been with John, Osho and

Papaji. Why? Because I guess, Freedom and not structure is on offer.

We get a few people who have left Andrew. Perhaps, ironically, it is

too challenging to be with Andrew and be in a meeting that makes no

demands at all. We don't get many Buddhist and Christians either. We

offer no practices, no rules and no membership or staged fellowship.

The only commitment one has to make is to oneself: to be honest, open

and vulnerable. That can be scary but it is the only way to finish

the journey.I don't know if that answers your questions but it

allowed me to say a few things for the record, so thanks.Lots of love

daveHi Dave, Just wondering how your soft/gentle approach handles ego.

I have been with a teacher, perhaps even the one referred to as "A" in

the message you are responding to here, and his teaching was a very

big challenge to ego and that seemed to be the whole point. There was

a fire and a passion experienced as well as the noble desire to do the

right thing which was very thrilling as well as terrifying at times.

There was the discovery of a reservoir of strength that enabled me to

abandon everything personal; family, possessions, ideas and desires

for acceptance and recognition. I experienced states and

relationships that were completely unknown to me previously. There

was also the deep love and reverence for A. as he lived the example

of perfection in action and helped others to rise up out of their

small and limited ideas of who they were to meet him in that

challenge. It was like living the most incredible adventure

imaginable.... I have since been with a teacher who speaks very

gently from the depths of Presence and found this to be a much more

direct encounter with the deeper state of Consciousness that accepts

What Is happening in the field of NOW with no challenge to anything

whatsoever. No resistance, no challenge, just pure and gentle

awareness of being Conscious NOW. No little me to fight against or

sacrifice, but rather the allowing of everything to be as it

is...including the rising and falling of thoughts, feelings, and

circumstances. My experience of life is now very peaceful, quiet and

ordinary. There is still a thrill, however it is the thrill of

feeling alive in every cell of my being and is not dependant on any

outer condition. There is the recognition that every form is also

alive in this thrill...the cows in the field, the trees, the birds,

the whole of Nature springing up in this awake and alive energy of

Beingness. Gentle and very sweet awareness of being alive...NOW. So I

am wondering if my previous experience with A. was a necessary one in

which the hard shell of ego was penetrated to the point that enabled

this very soft and gentle awareness to flower. I am grateful for both

teachings but wonder at getting stuck in ideas of striving for

perfection that require time and never seem to really take one all

the way home. I would like to know from your experience, just what

you think of this question. Love from Heather