Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 To imply that the ego needs to die is illusion... It insinuates that the ego is in need of fixing, in need of repair..imperfect.... that is to place judgement on yourself as being imperfect... When the spirit of divine bliss sees us as absolutely perfect! Surrendering to the Beloved allows you to see perfection in yourself. Stop the judgements of your ego. Lyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Dear Lyn and all, As I see it, ego is merely the idea of a self. Kind regards, John Willemsens. .................... Advayavada Buddhism Infocenter - Amsterdam visit: www.euronet.nl/~advaya/sitemap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 , JustLynette@a... wrote: Hello Lyn Ego is natural function. Identifying with function is the source of all the mischief. I make a distinction between 'ego' and I-image. A few weeks ago I asked the question 'Is hunger an illusion?'- (there were some great responses to this question - thank you all). I feel that hunger is not an illusion - it is natural function that only arises as necessary. The 'problem' comes up when I identify with hunger and *react to 'what is' by thinking* 'I' am hungry! So, the problem is *ownership* - If I react to natural function (the ego) I create the I-image, the 'illusion of separation', and then suffer and struggle to be whole. There is no doer, no owner. There is doing as in listening - there is no listener. In the absence of an owner, I-image, life flows naturally as 'whatis' and awareness of 'what is' is natural. It was the ego that posted this message, not 'I'. Love to All, James > The spirit uses the ego to serve its purposes... The ego is unaware.. > > To imply that the ego needs to die is illusion... > It insinuates that the ego is in need of fixing, in need of > repair..imperfect.... > that is to place judgement on yourself as being imperfect... > > When the spirit of divine bliss sees us as absolutely perfect! > > Surrendering to the Beloved allows you to see perfection in yourself. > Stop the judgements of your ego. > > Lyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Rudolf Steiner, who had lots of training in Theosophy, said that the ego is stored in the blood.... His argument: when someone says something embarrassing about you, the blood activates, rushes to your head and you blush! Love, --Greg Greg, wonderful point... It is also why during organ transplants from one human to another, and blood exchange... The person will pick up some of the traits of the person they are sharing an organ with... Also why in some religions, blood transfusions are thought of to be either taking someone's spirit, or giving your spirit away.. {although what difference that makes, means nothing when you realize karma transfer happens without blood transfer} I'd like to say, I'm enjoying thoroughly every ONE's input on the ego... I have realized just recently... that there is no opposite end of the stick.. There is no duality... but really... does it matter?? The ego will still perceive duality throughout the remainder of its life... And it matters not.. =) All is as the Universal Spirit intended... we should just enjoy..... All That Is. Much love, Lynette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Dear Greg, You wrote: > His (Rudolf Steiner's) argument: when someone says something > embarrassing about you, the blood activates, rushes to your head and you > blush! I think that is so neatly and simply put, we should start with that... See if we can talk about the subject line without even mentioning the affliction? Because an affliction it is. The first incident in a person's life of... judgement, criticism, manipulation, conditional love (which is not love of course but manipulation), kicks a child out of direct unquestioned awareness into self consciousness, self questioning and self doubt. The child is now at odds with itself. When that happens often enough the conflicting circumstances create a confliction (conflict of interests), when it sticks it has become an affliction. activities of separation recoil, projection, rejection, resistance, counteraction, the list is lo o o o o o o o ng Whatever name we give it, the affliction is known and characterized by: guilt, fear, ought to, should, shouldn't have should've self incrimination the list is lo o o o o o o ng When you notice that any of the above activities and characteristics are driving you, you are suffering from that affliction... Remember, it started on the first moment that you were made consciously aware of a conditional manoeuvre. It may just have just started with your first defecation... that is if you are lucky... All to do with separation, non acceptance, someone putting a condition on their acceptance of you.... A person who is in the process of overcoming that affliction very often gets the WORD thrown at her or him, just another manoeuvre to not allow or to prevent the re-emergence of direct uncomplicated awareness... "I cannot be free so I will not let you become free" in all its variations. What to do now? Did you notice that some on the list are overcoming the affliction and using the list as a *place* to bring that about? So wonderful to witness... But then... (this *place* has a back door) What happens ? The predictable of course... the WORD gets thrown in... The affliction ready to sneak in through the backdoor. Love, Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Hi Folks, People use the word "ego" to mean so many different things... to me the important thing is to understand what the other guy means when he says it. _Then_ we can talk. ) It's Latin, of course, meaning "I." The Bailey/DK books use "ego" to mean the soul or the causal body, that is midway between personality and spirit. Bailey came from a Theosophist background... don't know whether the Theosophists in general use the word that way. > Ego is natural function. > > Identifying with function is the source of all the mischief. > > I make a distinction between 'ego' and I-image. Neumann, a Jungian, uses the term "ego image." Which works pretty well with using "ego" for "soul." Seems we're trying in some way to speak of that which we _think_ we are, until we find that it isn't so... I like the explanation that it's a persona (Gr. mask) that we think is the real I, until we discover the real I is there behind the mask/persona... and much more than the persona. After all, I have worn other personalities in other lives... it's very limiting to take the present persona for the "real me." > A few weeks ago I asked the question 'Is hunger an illusion?'- >(there were some great responses to this question - thank you all). > > I feel that hunger is not an illusion - it is natural function Seems to me it's a natural function of the physical body... >that only arises as necessary. The 'problem' comes up when I identify >with hunger and *react to 'what is' by thinking* 'I' am hungry! > > > So, the problem is *ownership* - If I react to natural function >(the ego) I create the I-image, the 'illusion of separation', and then >suffer and struggle to be whole. I might suggest that the separation has begun to happen already before you ever get a physical body... and emotions and intellect... that it is how we incarnate. And as we learn to use the body, emotions and intellect, we do identify with them and forget our former wholeness. Jung thought that it is natural and necessary to develop a human personality and sense of "ego" or yes, a separated I, in order to grow up human and live here. And then also natural at some point to begin to turn inward and discover the wider truth. He thought it generally happened at about the age of 30, the "high noon" of life, but I think we see it happening much younger now... an indication of the change in humanity. A long time ago, I had a dream. We were running, escaping into the mountains from a burning city. There were three of us... me and a boy or man, and an old man who was guiding us into the mountains. Then we saw an opening in the side of the mountain. There was a curtain across the lower part of the opening, and it looked like a marionette stage... I think there were some small figures there. We went right over the curtain and into the hole in the mountain. The inside was a vast cave, as if the mountain were hollow, and many others were there in the cave. I remember that everyone wore the same kind of garment... a hooded robe, and the hood came to a point on top, like a flame. I was wearing one too. A man took me over to the side of the cave to teach me something. There was a square space, extending up very high... like an elevator shaft. We stood in it, and he showed me how to rise upward and create a floor where we wanted to stop. Then upward again, and create another floor to stop. Going down, we just "disappeared" the floors and went on down through them until we wanted to stop. To me, the persona... what many call the ego... is what's on the stage in the doorway of the cave. A mask or marionette that we can use to communicate with the outside world. It's small, and the opening it's in is small. But on the inside of the mountain the cave is vast, and it's all accessible once we learn to move up and down. > There is no doer, no owner. > There is doing as in listening - there is no listener. Then who hears? > In the absence of an owner, I-image, life flows naturally as >'whatis' and awareness of 'what is' is natural. And who is aware? > It was the ego that posted this message, not 'I'. Who are you? Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 The child is now at odds with itself. When that happens often enough the conflicting circumstances create a confliction (conflict of interests), when it sticks it has become an affliction. I would like to share the way I have been feeling, lately... This sense of peace in all decisions, that are no longer really decisions. This feeling of openness, acceptance.... I had developed a habit of giving decisions to my husband to make... They were too difficult.. I could "what if" forever and never make a decision... Or I'd just do what someone else wanted just because that way I didnt have to decide for myself... Always weighing what I "thought" should be done versus what I "wanted" to do, versus If It "should" be done at all.... LOL... sounds confusing huh?? Yep... Its why I gave up deciding... I could never decide... always fearing I'd make the wrong decision, or I'd hurt somebody by deciding to do something one way, or the other... lol... Very sticky... I always wanted to make every body else happy, it didnt matter what I felt, or what I wanted, just so long as everybody else was happy.... And if I made one happy, and another unhappy by a decision, then I suffered the decision... Sooooooooo... I was very much at odd with myself... I even went into "submissive" training so I could surrender all decisions to my husband... Be at his beck and call... No decisions for me to make... Just hand them ALL to him.... I was hoping to totally free myself of feeling guilt in every decision.... And now.... I have.... and I am only submissive to myself.... lol.... Now, I just "do". I do not weigh the odds, think about how "so and so" might feel... I decide based on how I'm moved to decide....And completely at peace with it.... Plus actions that used to make me crazy, like being late to an appointment, or not having the house clean, or the kids not in bed at bedtime, or overspending at the grocery store, or buying a new outfit... They dont bother me anymore... I just go with the flow, and it all falls into place with no effort, no decision, no guilt... And because I dont feel the guilt anymore, I do not drive myself insane, I dont torment my kids by my insanity, I dont irritate my husband by asking him "what he thinks".... Oh there are still times, I stop and wonder which is the best way to go, its only natural... But I just let it go... The spirit has everything well in hand... So why fret? Thanks for letting me share. Love, Lynette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 , Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: Hi Dharma, I agree, people use the word "ego" to mean many things. Who hears? Who is aware? Who am I? As Ramana Maharshi and others have said, "I Am That I Am". I feel that there is something in what you say about incarnatiing. And, in a particular way, I agree when you say, "I might suggest that the separation has begun to happen already before you ever get a physical body" If I say, 'I am aware' or 'I hear' then one could ask who is this 'I' that is aware or hearing (the inquiry 'Who am I?') which leads to the insight: 'the observer is the observed' What has this to do with incarnation? All opposites require 'the illusion of separation/duality' (even though it is clear that they are simply two ends of the same stick- when we look at the whole). So, the observed needs the observer and the 'illusion of separation'. If all there is , is Silence - how would it be perceived? Sound appears in Silence is surrounded by Silence and returns to Silence. Sound points directly to Silence- nonduality is 'the path of no distance'. If 'I' react to a sound and say I hear it, then I support and live in duality. I identify with one end of the stick. If I say "I am not that, I am the other - I am still reacting, supporting duality, because I have identified with what I think is the other end of the stick. If I see globally, I see that 'I Am That I Am' and there is the 'Joy of Being'. Love, james > Hi Folks, > > People use the word "ego" to mean so many different things... to me the > important thing is to understand what the other guy means when he says it. > _Then_ we can talk. ) > > It's Latin, of course, meaning "I." The Bailey/DK books use "ego" to mean > the soul or the causal body, that is midway between personality and spirit. > Bailey came from a Theosophist background... don't know whether the > Theosophists in general use the word that way. > > > Ego is natural function. > > > > Identifying with function is the source of all the mischief. > > > > I make a distinction between 'ego' and I-image. > > Neumann, a Jungian, uses the term "ego image." Which works pretty well > with using "ego" for "soul." > > Seems we're trying in some way to speak of that which we _think_ we are, > until we find that it isn't so... I like the explanation that it's a > persona (Gr. mask) that we think is the real I, until we discover the real > I is there behind the mask/persona... and much more than the persona. > After all, I have worn other personalities in other lives... it's very > limiting to take the present persona for the "real me." > > > A few weeks ago I asked the question 'Is hunger an illusion?'- > >(there were some great responses to this question - thank you all). > > > > I feel that hunger is not an illusion - it is natural function > > Seems to me it's a natural function of the physical body... > > >that only arises as necessary. The 'problem' comes up when I identify > >with hunger and *react to 'what is' by thinking* 'I' am hungry! > > > > > > So, the problem is *ownership* - If I react to natural function > >(the ego) I create the I-image, the 'illusion of separation', and then > >suffer and struggle to be whole. > > I might suggest that the separation has begun to happen already before you > ever get a physical body... and emotions and intellect... that it is how > we incarnate. And as we learn to use the body, emotions and intellect, we > do identify with them and forget our former wholeness. > > Jung thought that it is natural and necessary to develop a human > personality and sense of "ego" or yes, a separated I, in order to grow up > human and live here. And then also natural at some point to begin to turn > inward and discover the wider truth. He thought it generally happened at > about the age of 30, the "high noon" of life, but I think we see it > happening much younger now... an indication of the change in humanity. > > A long time ago, I had a dream. We were running, escaping into the > mountains from a burning city. There were three of us... me and a boy or > man, and an old man who was guiding us into the mountains. Then we saw an > opening in the side of the mountain. There was a curtain across the lower > part of the opening, and it looked like a marionette stage... I think > there were some small figures there. We went right over the curtain and > into the hole in the mountain. > > The inside was a vast cave, as if the mountain were hollow, and many others > were there in the cave. I remember that everyone wore the same kind of > garment... a hooded robe, and the hood came to a point on top, like a > flame. I was wearing one too. > > A man took me over to the side of the cave to teach me something. There > was a square space, extending up very high... like an elevator shaft. We > stood in it, and he showed me how to rise upward and create a floor where > we wanted to stop. Then upward again, and create another floor to stop. > Going down, we just "disappeared" the floors and went on down through them > until we wanted to stop. > > To me, the persona... what many call the ego... is what's on the stage in > the doorway of the cave. A mask or marionette that we can use to > communicate with the outside world. It's small, and the opening it's in is > small. But on the inside of the mountain the cave is vast, and it's all > accessible once we learn to move up and down. > > > There is no doer, no owner. > > There is doing as in listening - there is no listener. > > Then who hears? > > > In the absence of an owner, I-image, life flows naturally as > >'whatis' and awareness of 'what is' is natural. > > And who is aware? > > > It was the ego that posted this message, not 'I'. > > Who are you? > > > Love, > Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 A question from the new girl on the block (you must admit there's bravery in just leaping in). I've often wondered if ego is not the root of all problems, but like what you've said about the identification with ego. From 50 plus yrs, it seems that ego is what prompts immediate responses - of fear, of self satisfaction, of guilt and shame, of anger (usually arising from fear). It is only after a whole breath and a second thought that people seem to be able to rise above ego and respond as their spirits would want them to. And here's where I'll probably offend someone without wanting to - please explain my error - I'm new to all this. But ego and "mind" have close connections to me. And sometimes I feel that this is where I experience problems with buddhism and feel a closer affinity to Jnani"ian" yoga - there is such a perisistent emphasis on mind - mind - mind - all "work" is geared toward stilling the mind. My first reaction is to think, why don't you just go beyond that and aim for the spirit itself? Must we spend thirty years arguing with the mind before we can find the self, the divinity that is there all the time? So if ego is a natural function, it must serve an important purpose. Hmm. Seems to get in the way to me. Admittedly, its probably behind such self preservation issues as fight or flight responses, but it is also the name of the wall we construct between all other living creatures that says 'I'm separate from you'. Sorry if my ramblings are yawners for everyone else, but I did warn you I'm new to this - so please share your thoughts - pam j. > > > > Ego is natural function. > > Identifying with function is the source of all > the mischief. > > I make a distinction between 'ego' and I-image. > > A few weeks ago I asked the question 'Is hunger > an illusion?'- > (there were some great responses to this question - > thank you all). > > I feel that hunger is not an illusion - it is > natural function > that only arises as necessary. The 'problem' comes > up when I identify > with hunger and *react to 'what is' by thinking* > 'I' am hungry! > > > So, the problem is *ownership* - If I react > to natural function > (the ego) I create the I-image, the 'illusion of > separation', and then > suffer and struggle to be whole. > > There is no doer, no owner. > There is doing as in listening - there is no > listener. > > In the absence of an owner, I-image, life > flows naturally as > 'whatis' and awareness of 'what is' is natural. > > > It was the ego that posted this message, not > 'I'. > > > > Love to All, > James > > > > > The spirit uses the ego to serve its purposes... > The ego is > unaware.. > > > > To imply that the ego needs to die is illusion... > > It insinuates that the ego is in need of fixing, > in need of > > repair..imperfect.... > > that is to place judgement on yourself as being > imperfect... > > > > When the spirit of divine bliss sees us as > absolutely perfect! > > > > Surrendering to the Beloved allows you to see > perfection in > yourself. > > Stop the judgements of your ego. > > > > Lyn > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Rudolf Steiner, who had lots of training in Theosophy, said that the ego is stored in the blood.... His argument: when someone says something embarrassing about you, the blood activates, rushes to your head and you blush! Love, --Greg At 05:50 PM 4/13/01 -0000, nisarga wrote: >, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote: > >Hi Dharma, > > I agree, people use the word "ego" to mean many things. > > Who hears? Who is aware? Who am I? > As Ramana Maharshi and others have said, "I Am That I Am". > > > > I feel that there is something in what you say about >incarnatiing. And, in a particular way, I agree when you say, "I might >suggest that the separation has begun to happen already before you >ever get a physical body" > > > > If I say, 'I am aware' or 'I hear' then one could ask who is >this 'I' that is aware or hearing (the inquiry 'Who am I?') which >leads to the insight: 'the observer is the observed' > > > What has this to do with incarnation? > All opposites require 'the illusion of separation/duality' (even >though it is clear that they are simply two ends of the same stick- >when we look at the whole). > > > So, the observed needs the observer and the 'illusion of >separation'. > > > > If all there is , is Silence - how would it be perceived? > Sound appears in Silence is surrounded by Silence and returns to >Silence. Sound points directly to Silence- nonduality is 'the path of >no distance'. > > > > If 'I' react to a sound and say I hear it, then I support and >live in duality. I identify with one end of the stick. > If I say "I am not that, I am the other - I am still reacting, >supporting duality, because I have identified with what I think is the >other end of the stick. > > > If I see globally, I see that 'I Am That I Am' and there is the >'Joy of Being'. > > > > Love, > james > > > > > >> Hi Folks, >> >> People use the word "ego" to mean so many different things... to me >the >> important thing is to understand what the other guy means when he >says it. >> _Then_ we can talk. ) >> >> It's Latin, of course, meaning "I." The Bailey/DK books use "ego" >to mean >> the soul or the causal body, that is midway between personality and >spirit. >> Bailey came from a Theosophist background... don't know whether the >> Theosophists in general use the word that way. >> >> > Ego is natural function. >> > >> > Identifying with function is the source of all the mischief. >> > >> > I make a distinction between 'ego' and I-image. >> >> Neumann, a Jungian, uses the term "ego image." Which works pretty >well >> with using "ego" for "soul." >> >> Seems we're trying in some way to speak of that which we _think_ we >are, >> until we find that it isn't so... I like the explanation that it's >a >> persona (Gr. mask) that we think is the real I, until we discover >the real >> I is there behind the mask/persona... and much more than the >persona. >> After all, I have worn other personalities in other lives... it's >very >> limiting to take the present persona for the "real me." >> >> > A few weeks ago I asked the question 'Is hunger an illusion?'- >> >(there were some great responses to this question - thank you all). >> > >> > I feel that hunger is not an illusion - it is natural >function >> >> Seems to me it's a natural function of the physical body... >> >> >that only arises as necessary. The 'problem' comes up when I >identify >> >with hunger and *react to 'what is' by thinking* 'I' am hungry! >> > >> > >> > So, the problem is *ownership* - If I react to natural >function >> >(the ego) I create the I-image, the 'illusion of separation', and >then >> >suffer and struggle to be whole. >> >> I might suggest that the separation has begun to happen already >before you >> ever get a physical body... and emotions and intellect... that it >is how >> we incarnate. And as we learn to use the body, emotions and >intellect, we >> do identify with them and forget our former wholeness. >> >> Jung thought that it is natural and necessary to develop a human >> personality and sense of "ego" or yes, a separated I, in order to >grow up >> human and live here. And then also natural at some point to begin >to turn >> inward and discover the wider truth. He thought it generally >happened at >> about the age of 30, the "high noon" of life, but I think we see it >> happening much younger now... an indication of the change in >humanity. >> >> A long time ago, I had a dream. We were running, escaping into the >> mountains from a burning city. There were three of us... me and a >boy or >> man, and an old man who was guiding us into the mountains. Then we >saw an >> opening in the side of the mountain. There was a curtain across the >lower >> part of the opening, and it looked like a marionette stage... I >think >> there were some small figures there. We went right over the curtain >and >> into the hole in the mountain. >> >> The inside was a vast cave, as if the mountain were hollow, and many >others >> were there in the cave. I remember that everyone wore the same kind >of >> garment... a hooded robe, and the hood came to a point on top, like >a >> flame. I was wearing one too. >> >> A man took me over to the side of the cave to teach me something. >There >> was a square space, extending up very high... like an elevator >shaft. We >> stood in it, and he showed me how to rise upward and create a floor >where >> we wanted to stop. Then upward again, and create another floor to >stop. >> Going down, we just "disappeared" the floors and went on down >through them >> until we wanted to stop. >> >> To me, the persona... what many call the ego... is what's on the >stage in >> the doorway of the cave. A mask or marionette that we can use to >> communicate with the outside world. It's small, and the opening >it's in is >> small. But on the inside of the mountain the cave is vast, and it's >all >> accessible once we learn to move up and down. >> >> > There is no doer, no owner. >> > There is doing as in listening - there is no listener. >> >> Then who hears? >> >> > In the absence of an owner, I-image, life flows naturally >as >> >'whatis' and awareness of 'what is' is natural. >> >> And who is aware? >> >> > It was the ego that posted this message, not 'I'. >> >> Who are you? >> >> >> Love, >> Dharma > > >/join > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Greg Goode (e-mail: goode) Computer Support Phone: 4-5723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 - Pamela Jernegan Friday, April 13, 2001 1:53 PM Re: Re: What is the ego A question from the new girl on the block (you mustadmit there's bravery in just leaping in). I've oftenwondered if ego is not the root of all problems, butlike what you've said about the identification withego. From 50 plus yrs, it seems that ego is whatprompts immediate responses - of fear, of selfsatisfaction, of guilt and shame, of anger (usuallyarising from fear). It is only after a whole breathand a second thought that people seem to be able torise above ego and respond as their spirits would wantthem to.And here's where I'll probably offend someone withoutwanting to - please explain my error - I'm new to allthis. But ego and "mind" have close connections tome. And sometimes I feel that this is where Iexperience problems with buddhism and feel a closeraffinity to Jnani"ian" yoga - there is such aperisistent emphasis on mind - mind - mind - all"work" is geared toward stilling the mind. My firstreaction is to think, why don't you just go beyondthat and aim for the spirit itself? Must we spendthirty years arguing with the mind before we can findthe self, the divinity that is there all the time?So if ego is a natural function, it must serve animportant purpose. Hmm. Seems to get in the way tome. Admittedly, its probably behind such selfpreservation issues as fight or flight responses, butit is also the name of the wall we construct betweenall other living creatures that says 'I'm separatefrom you'.Sorry if my ramblings are yawners for everyone else,but I did warn you I'm new to this - so please shareyour thoughts - pam j. Dear Brave New Girl on the Block, Pam, Leap away! You go, girl. You ask excellent questions that get to the heart of the matter. Your first impulse to just go beyond the mind and to find the divinity, know what is already there all the time is absolutely THE essence of inquiry. Indeed who will work and subdue the mind but the mind itself? "So don't mind your mind." Find the source of the mind, see what is always present. You are also right about the wall called ego, called whatever, in that it is only a perceived limitation of the limitless...the thought I am just this body, just this separate person..is only a mistaken perception. A thought is just an idea, how real is that? With insight into the truth of what you are, this ego may be seen for the puny futile resistance it is. All our efforts to be a separate self are like rowing a small boat while the ocean current carries us along. Welcome to a! Love, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Hi Pamela, The classical investigation goes like: "neither am I the body nor the mind, nor the senses nor the intellect". That is the tenet of Jnana yoga - and "who you are" can be discovered surprisingly fast - if that is all you care for. So the understanding of ego, mind, senses etc. is but secondary. But once "who you are" is known, it can happen that several feelings no longer are appreciated - like fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment, to name a few. And that's where disciplines like Raja or Jnana yoga can be of use - but not a requirement. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Hi Pamela, Joining in with Jan here. One of the points about jnana yoga is to distinguish the permanent from the temporary, the "real" from the "unreal," the "I" from the "other than I." Questions such as the following are deeply considered... When I go to sleep, am I still there? Is there evidence at that time the body is present? That the mind is present? (It is not evidence that later, someone else says they saw you sleeping. Rather, what was the evidence at the time??) When the body gets old, weak and gray, do *I* change? When I get in a mood, do *I* change or is it the mind/emotions? When anything changes, is there anything constant that observes this? What would that be? If I see the body, observe the variations in the mind, feel the sensations in the body, then can I be any of the things observed? If I am one or more of these things, then how could I be looking at them? If I am not any of these things, then what could I be? These are a few of the questions asked in jnana yoga... Another part of it is not to take anyone's answer for granted, it must be investigated on one's own... OM! --Greg At 11:17 PM 4/13/01 +0100, jb wrote: >Hi Pamela, > >The classical investigation goes like: >"neither am I the body nor the mind, nor the senses nor the intellect". >That is the tenet of Jnana yoga - and "who you are" can be discovered >surprisingly fast - if that is all you care for. >So the understanding of ego, mind, senses etc. is but >secondary. But once "who you are" is known, it can happen that several feelings >no longer are appreciated - like fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment, >to name a few. And that's where disciplines like Raja or Jnana yoga can be of use - >but not a requirement. > >Jan > > > > > >/join > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > Greg Goode (e-mail: goode) Computer Support Phone: 4-5723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Yes! The child needs to form a personality of some kind, a way to grow up human. Needs some image of self. Don't worry too much about "spoiling the child." A person with a "strong ego" is generally much better off than one with a "weak ego" and a poor self-image, a lack of personal power, etc. It's much easier to work with someone with a "strong ego." This is an interesting statement.... Of course I dont teach... And this is only conjecture on my part... But... someone with a strong ego is quite pleased as punch about their life..... why seek for anything better??? Whereas someone who has reached the bottom of the pit, and has no where to go but up... are the ones that see the up, and begin the climb.... I am such.... And my husband has a strong ego... He could care less about enlightenment... LOL.... He is happy... why change.... {of course he is soooo lucky, and I love him to death} I think this is why opposites attract actually.... His healthy ego, karma, soaks up alot of mine, and he doesnt even know it.. Looking back, over the years, he has processed alot of stuff for me... How do I know?????? Cause I feel so much better when he hugs me =) Love, Lynette ps... I guess all my chatter today is either I have my voice.... LOL... haha.. no.... it means I got k energy moving.... and am beginning to wonder what is surfacing.. Hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 >James: >snip< > If 'I' react to a sound and say I hear it, then I support and >live in duality. I identify with one end of the stick. > If I say "I am not that, I am the other - I am still reacting, >supporting duality, because I have identified with what I think is the >other end of the stick. > > > If I see globally, I see that 'I Am That I Am' and there is the >'Joy of Being'. Beautiful!! Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Hi Pam, >A question from the new girl on the block (you must >admit there's bravery in just leaping in). I've often >wondered if ego is not the root of all problems, I'm assuming you're using "ego" in the sense of "false ego" or "ego image" or persona... something related to the personality rather than higher levels. >but >like what you've said about the identification with >ego. From 50 plus yrs, it seems that ego is what >prompts immediate responses - of fear, of self >satisfaction, of guilt and shame, of anger (usually >arising from fear). Here you are talking about emotions, which arise in the emotional body, the second level of consciousness... there are other kinds of immediate responses, for instance: jerking your hand away from a hot iron, or going into an intellectual rant when someone pushes the right buttons. ) >It is only after a whole breath >and a second thought that people seem to be able to >rise above ego and respond as their spirits would want >them to. The trick is to become spirit. >And here's where I'll probably offend someone without >wanting to - please explain my error - I'm new to all >this. But ego and "mind" have close connections to >me. What we often mean by ego is a personality-level phenomenon, and the personality includes body, emotions, and mind... intellect, that is. >And sometimes I feel that this is where I >experience problems with buddhism and feel a closer >affinity to Jnani"ian" yoga - there is such a >perisistent emphasis on mind - mind - mind - all >"work" is geared toward stilling the mind. My first >reaction is to think, why don't you just go beyond >that and aim for the spirit itself? Right on the mark!! >Must we spend >thirty years arguing with the mind before we can find >the self, the divinity that is there all the time? No... arguing with the mind or arguing about the mind is just enjoying more personality stuff. ) Don't argue with it, just lift up and go higher. Remember my dream? Just go up higher and leave the intellect below. (I'll send you my meditation instructions, you might enjoy seeing how I teach this. They were written for an on-line group of young parents without background, so the language is very simple... not even any mention of chakras. ) >So if ego is a natural function, it must serve an >important purpose. Yes! The child needs to form a personality of some kind, a way to grow up human. Needs some image of self. Don't worry too much about "spoiling the child." A person with a "strong ego" is generally much better off than one with a "weak ego" and a poor self-image, a lack of personal power, etc. It's much easier to work with someone with a "strong ego." >Hmm. Seems to get in the way to >me. Admittedly, its probably behind such self >preservation issues as fight or flight responses, I think that's pretty automatic! > but >it is also the name of the wall we construct between >all other living creatures that says 'I'm separate >from you'. And that's growing up human... the baby learns it's a separate being from Mama... Another viewpoint... one of the devas or elementals of the Findhorn Garden said that we were once like the devas, with group consciousness... and that we were given a sense of separateness for a reason, in order to develop a different kind of focussed consciousness, to become more like the Creator Himself. And that now we are coming closer to the devas again... Well, I think I'll just send the whole text instead of trying to pull out a few bits of it. ) Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2001 Report Share Posted April 14, 2001 Thank you - thank you! I'll think on what you've said. pam --- Dharma <deva wrote: > Hi Pam, > > >A question from the new girl on the block (you must > >admit there's bravery in just leaping in). I've > often > >wondered if ego is not the root of all problems, > > I'm assuming you're using "ego" in the sense of > "false ego" or "ego image" > or persona... something related to the personality > rather than higher > levels. > > >but > >like what you've said about the identification with > >ego. From 50 plus yrs, it seems that ego is what > >prompts immediate responses - of fear, of self > >satisfaction, of guilt and shame, of anger (usually > >arising from fear). > > Here you are talking about emotions, which arise in > the emotional body, the > second level of consciousness... there are other > kinds of immediate > responses, for instance: jerking your hand away from > a hot iron, or going > into an intellectual rant when someone pushes the > right buttons. ) > > >It is only after a whole breath > >and a second thought that people seem to be able to > >rise above ego and respond as their spirits would > want > >them to. > > The trick is to become spirit. > > >And here's where I'll probably offend someone > without > >wanting to - please explain my error - I'm new to > all > >this. But ego and "mind" have close connections to > >me. > > What we often mean by ego is a personality-level > phenomenon, and the > personality includes body, emotions, and mind... > intellect, that is. > > >And sometimes I feel that this is where I > >experience problems with buddhism and feel a closer > >affinity to Jnani"ian" yoga - there is such a > >perisistent emphasis on mind - mind - mind - all > >"work" is geared toward stilling the mind. My > first > >reaction is to think, why don't you just go beyond > >that and aim for the spirit itself? > > Right on the mark!! > > >Must we spend > >thirty years arguing with the mind before we can > find > >the self, the divinity that is there all the time? > > No... arguing with the mind or arguing about the > mind is just enjoying > more personality stuff. ) Don't argue with it, > just lift up and go > higher. Remember my dream? Just go up higher and > leave the intellect > below. > > (I'll send you my meditation instructions, you might > enjoy seeing how I > teach this. They were written for an on-line group > of young parents > without background, so the language is very > simple... not even any mention > of chakras. ) > > >So if ego is a natural function, it must serve an > >important purpose. > > Yes! The child needs to form a personality of some > kind, a way to grow up > human. Needs some image of self. Don't worry too > much about "spoiling the > child." A person with a "strong ego" is generally > much better off than one > with a "weak ego" and a poor self-image, a lack of > personal power, etc. > It's much easier to work with someone with a "strong > ego." > > >Hmm. Seems to get in the way to > >me. Admittedly, its probably behind such self > >preservation issues as fight or flight responses, > > I think that's pretty automatic! > > > but > >it is also the name of the wall we construct > between > >all other living creatures that says 'I'm separate > >from you'. > > And that's growing up human... the baby learns it's > a separate being from > Mama... > > Another viewpoint... one of the devas or elementals > of the Findhorn Garden > said that we were once like the devas, with group > consciousness... and > that we were given a sense of separateness for a > reason, in order to > develop a different kind of focussed consciousness, > to become more like the > Creator Himself. And that now we are coming closer > to the devas again... > Well, I think I'll just send the whole text instead > of trying to pull out a > few bits of it. ) > > Love, > Dharma > > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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