Consciousness

[Guest guest]

Joyce Short posted a short excerpt, in which a Tibetan lama suggests

that to us, wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

inanimate object. Mumble cat suggests that deep dreamless sleep is

being without consciousness, and that this is occuring when awake, but

we can't "know it", because of the noise of ordinary waking state.

There is something insulting to think of ourselves as lumps of

insentient matter, but is this the base? Is this where non-dual

wisdom is heading, to our basic state as matter, before thought, and

so on? I'd really like to know. Terry

[Guest guest]

On 4/19/01 at 7:30 PM tmnabata wrote:

 

ºJoyce Short posted a short excerpt, in which a Tibetan lama suggests

ºthat to us, wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

ºinanimate object. Mumble cat suggests that deep dreamless sleep is

ºbeing without consciousness, and that this is occuring when awake, but

ºwe can't "know it", because of the noise of ordinary waking state.

ºThere is something insulting to think of ourselves as lumps of

ºinsentient matter, but is this the base? Is this where non-dual

ºwisdom is heading, to our basic state as matter, before thought, and

ºso on? I'd really like to know. Terry

 

In that case, there is no alternative but to "sit through" what in Rosicrucian

terms is called "transfiguration". Invariably that means the "experience"

but accepting any description will transform it into belief.

Another way of putting the issue is "under which circumstances one could be

awake and functional without noticing the one time the eyes close being the last

one"

 

hope this helps,

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

> On 4/19/01 at 7:30 PM tmnabata@h... wrote:

>

> ºJoyce Short posted a short excerpt, in which a Tibetan lama

suggests

> ºthat to us, wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

> ºinanimate object. Mumble cat suggests that deep dreamless sleep is

> ºbeing without consciousness, and that this is occuring when awake,

but

> ºwe can't "know it", because of the noise of ordinary waking state.

> ºThere is something insulting to think of ourselves as lumps of

> ºinsentient matter, but is this the base? Is this where non-dual

> ºwisdom is heading, to our basic state as matter, before thought,

and

> ºso on? I'd really like to know. Terry

>

> In that case, there is no alternative but to "sit through" what in

Rosicrucian

> terms is called "transfiguration". Invariably that means the

"experience"

> but accepting any description will transform it into belief.

> Another way of putting the issue is "under which circumstances one

could be

> awake and functional without noticing the one time the eyes close

being the last one"

>

> hope this helps,

>

 

Namaste,

 

Thought came before matter for matter is thought. Dreamless sleep is

just being in a state where there is only one thought, and that is 'I

am asleep', so to speak. It is close to 'being' but is in a tamasic

non aware state. Being as experiencing is still in illusion and is a

state with an attribute, the true state is beyond being and attributes

or nirguna.........We are as individual as whirlpools are separate

from an ocean, yet the ocean is illusion and doesn't exist...Om Namah

Sivaya....Tony.

> Jan

[Guest guest]

Joyce Short posted a short excerpt, in which a Tibetan lama suggests

that to us, wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

inanimate object. Mumble cat suggests that deep dreamless sleep is

being without consciousness, and that this is occuring when awake,

but we can't "know it", because of the noise of ordinary waking

state.

There is something insulting to think of ourselves as lumps of

insentient matter, but is this the base? Is this where non-dual

wisdom is heading, to our basic state as matter, before thought, and

so on? I'd really like to know. Terry

Hi Terry...

It's not that we'll be your basic thoughtless rock

(been there, done that, still do occasionally)

but that the thoughts that are normally racing through our mindless mind

will be seen quite differently.

We thought thought was a thought we hear...

but we find instead that (pure, knowing) thoughts are things

(to be) seen, not heard.

Not mindlessly, but mindfully.

And those thoughts

that are co-created joyfully

with pure knowing,

pure consciousness

seen in the light of day

not just for the see'r to see or the knower to know

(duh)

but for all to see and know.

The knowing comes when you

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send $89.95 to tg

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

> On 4/19/01 at 7:30 PM tmnabata@h... wrote:

>

> ºJoyce Short posted a short excerpt, in which a Tibetan lama

suggests

> ºthat to us, wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

> ºinanimate object. Mumble cat suggests that deep dreamless sleep

is

> ºbeing without consciousness

 

No, dreamless sleep is not being without consciousness but rather,

attributeless consciousness, meaning it's without impressions of

anything but consciousness, consciousness only being aware of itself.

In practical terms, that means pure being, existence and knowledge of

such alone, nothing more.

 

 

, and that this is occuring when awake, but

> ºwe can't "know it", because of the noise of ordinary waking

state.

> ºThere is something insulting to think of ourselves as lumps of

> ºinsentient matter, but is this the base? Is this where non-dual

> ºwisdom is heading, to our basic state as matter, before thought,

and

> ºso on? I'd really like to know. Terry

 

Not insentient matter, but nothing more but sentience. The socalled

sentient matter can't imagine what only-sentience is because it's so

used to the attribute filled screen of impressions, despite the root

cause for the attributes being consciousness (and only that) too.

 

Hence there is nothing without consciousness, but not consciousness

in medical terms which usually means mental activity and verbalized

thoughts.

>wisdom "without consciousness" would be like a rock or

> ºinanimate object.

 

One can say that consciousness confusing its results with itself is

the loss of wisdom and the opposite is the gain of wisdom; knowledge

becoming the knower. I wonder if you're not thinking about "wisdom

without conscience" which is bit if a different matter than

consciousness.

 

 

Love,

 

Amanda.