Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Hi everyone, It may seem, in what follows, that I am taking Tony on personally, that is not the case... The two of us have quite a history of skating around each other at close range and not connecting... but bumping into each other we have not yet... and I'm sure we won't. While the two of us are on the same ice and hear the same music to dance to, it appears that we both hear the music differently... Now I take the position that I hear the music fully and Tony does not... (What???!!!) Why I take that privilege (humorously, believe me), does not matter at the moment... Also... Tony is a quite resilient fellow... so don't worry about him. (I am sure that Tony and I will at some point spin together, not worrying about perfect sixes.) Dear Tony, You wrote: > Most of the practitioners of these odd behaviours > do not follow a path of advaita or non dual knowledge, > in its truest *sense*. In the ordinary 'sense' of the words you use, I understand what you say. But as you are a person who wants to recover the essence of being, you need to be more careful with the use of words. You are wondering what prevents you from realizing moksha (freedom, liberation)... well part of it is the improper use of words and application of concepts, it confuses you no end. When you say above: "...in its truest sense" what is the meaning of the word 'sense' here? Now that would not matter if you would not be concerned with 'senses', but as you are also saying "It is the senses..... there is no moksha until they are risen above," you need to find out where the confusion lies. > These odd behaviours do not help, in fact they continue > to reinforce the senses, which in essence are the cause of our > bondage. It is the senses that keep us on planet earth, there is no > moksha until they are risen above. No no Tony, the senses are not the problem, they do not keep us here. With or without senses, we are already on this planet earth as you attest. Our 5 (or 6)senses help us to find out more about it, helping us to discover more and more of the mysterious and wondrous reality of all this. And I tell you, it is not 'in the mind', or 'mind' or whatever 'non-sense' observation like that. (I have often enough talked about the pathology of mentalism and illusion) see: http://aurasphere.org/Kundalini%20Posts/PathologyOfIllusion There IS NO problem with being here on planet earth (etc.) and our senses do NOT keep us here. If you however think that it is a problem to be here and that the senses keep us here... you will not recover moksha. Do you think you are here in order not to be here? When our senses operate unimpeded (not controlled by what one is allowed or not allowed to sense, not controlled by judgements, likes or dislikes, not controlled by what we do not want to sense or what we want to sense again and again) we discover that moksha (freedom, liberty) was 'never not'. It is *attachment or detachment* to what the senses observe, THAT is the problem... The activity of putting conditions on what is sensed as sensible', 'senseless' or 'nonsense', what is sensitive or insensitive, that is the problem. Attachment-to-the-senses is not the problem, we could not do without them, we could not even do without the sensed, but what we DO to the 'sensed', that and how we judge the sensed, that is the problem... That is where the problem of the mind comes in. (I have written about that in a previous post.) Keeping the above in mind positively, when you now read ORIGINAL yogic scripture again, with that 'unconditionality of sense and mind', when you now go about life with unconditioned senses and a non-conditioning mind, you will easily recover moksha on this our lovely planet earth, etc. So, when our senses eventually sense unconditionally again, that means when they purely sense conditions (Latin, meaning 'that what is a given') freedom is recovered and fully sensed... that is bliss. We have a sense for that, 'the seventh one'. Love, Wim http://www.aurasphere.org PS Anything up to now, that you think that bliss is (you made a remark about that in a previous post) is not bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Namaste Wim et al, Yeah I don't mind what they call me as long as they pay me ha ha. Wim yes, to answer your question: I really do think that we are here on planet earth, to learn how NOT to be here. Or rather to be here without any attachment until the body drops. I believe my moksha is written and when the time arrives, I will recover it. If we do not have attachment to the senses, then we are not here. There is nobody to be here to enjoy the senses, the body just spins like a wheel whose engine has been turned off, but there are some revolutions to complete. I don't mind saying that I cannot comprehend your understanding of moksha and how to attain it. I'm afraid my path is advaita vedanta, and there is no point in searching for new ones. I have just about got an intellectual understanding of this one. So my thinking process will be all very much in that vein. Om Namah Sivaya...... , "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphere@h...> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > It may seem, in what follows, that I am taking Tony on personally, that is > not the case... The two of us have quite a history of skating around each > other at close range and not connecting... but bumping into each other we > have not yet... and I'm sure we won't. While the two of us are on the same > ice and hear the same music to dance to, it appears that we both hear the > music differently... > Now I take the position that I hear the music fully and Tony does not... > (What???!!!) > Why I take that privilege (humorously, believe me), does not matter at the > moment... Also... Tony is a quite resilient fellow... so don't worry about > him. > (I am sure that Tony and I will at some point spin together, not worrying > about perfect sixes.) > > Dear Tony, > > You wrote: > > Most of the practitioners of these odd behaviours > > do not follow a path of advaita or non dual knowledge, > > in its truest *sense*. > > In the ordinary 'sense' of the words you use, I understand what you say. But > as you are a person who wants to recover the essence of being, you need to > be more careful with the use of words. You are wondering what prevents you > from realizing moksha (freedom, liberation)... well part of it is the > improper use of words and application of concepts, it confuses you no end. > > When you say above: "...in its truest sense" what is the meaning of the word > 'sense' here? Now that would not matter if you would not be concerned with > 'senses', but as you are also saying "It is the senses..... there is no > moksha until they are risen above," you need to find out where the confusion > lies. > > > These odd behaviours do not help, in fact they continue > > to reinforce the senses, which in essence are the cause of our > > bondage. It is the senses that keep us on planet earth, there is no > > moksha until they are risen above. > > No no Tony, the senses are not the problem, they do not keep us here. With > or without senses, we are already on this planet earth as you attest. Our 5 > (or 6)senses help us to find out more about it, helping us to discover more > and more of the mysterious and wondrous reality of all this. > > And I tell you, it is not 'in the mind', or 'mind' or whatever 'non-sense' > observation like that. (I have often enough talked about the pathology of > mentalism and illusion) see: > http://aurasphere.org/Kundalini%20Posts/PathologyOfIllusion > > There IS NO problem with being here on planet earth (etc.) and our senses do > NOT keep us here. If you however think that it is a problem to be here and > that the senses keep us here... you will not recover moksha. > > Do you think you are here in order not to be here? > > When our senses operate unimpeded (not controlled by what one is allowed or > not allowed to sense, not controlled by judgements, likes or dislikes, not > controlled by what we do not want to sense or what we want to sense again > and again) we discover that moksha (freedom, liberty) was 'never not'. > It is *attachment or detachment* to what the senses observe, THAT is the > problem... The activity of putting conditions on what is sensed as > sensible', 'senseless' or 'nonsense', what is sensitive or insensitive, that > is the problem. Attachment-to-the-senses is not the problem, we could not do > without them, we could not even do without the sensed, but what we DO to the > 'sensed', that and how we judge the sensed, that is the problem... That is > where the problem of the mind comes in. > (I have written about that in a previous post.) > > Keeping the above in mind positively, when you now read ORIGINAL yogic > scripture again, with that 'unconditionality of sense and mind', when you > now go about life with unconditioned senses and a non-conditioning mind, you > will easily recover moksha on this our lovely planet earth, etc. > > So, when our senses eventually sense unconditionally again, that means when > they purely sense conditions (Latin, meaning 'that what is a given') freedom > is recovered and fully sensed... that is bliss. > We have a sense for that, 'the seventh one'. > > Love, Wim > http://www.aurasphere.org > > PS > Anything up to now, that you think that bliss is (you made a remark about > that in a previous post) is not bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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