Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Dear friends, Please allow me to place an important correction to our website: << question I cannot regard 'progress' as a 'fourth seal' in the way you suggest, because I see progress as the illusory grasping of an imagination that is seeking to have an ongoing position which it does not have. I have no problem with constructing a scheme for evaluating 'becoming' in terms of 'progress', as long as this is seen for what it is: a conceptual exercise, a thought-based activity. answer In our view, the aforegoing is true also for the other three signs of being experienced by Buddhists: impermanence, selflessness and suffering. What Advayavada seeks to teach is that, in addition to this, what we experience as 'progress' is that which follows the otherwise indifferent pattern and direction in which overall existence advances over time. It is therefore that we say that progress (pratipada, patipada) is the fourth sign of being. The Advayavadin experiences pratitya-samutpada, the infinite relatedness and 'indifferent becoming' of existence, as impermanence, selflessness, suffering and progress, and believes that as we advance along the Path our understanding of these shall deepen and finally climax into the fullest realization of the wonders of being. >> Thank you. Kind regards, John Willemsens. .................... Advayavada Buddhism Infocenter - Amsterdam visit: www.euronet.nl/~advaya/sitemap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Hi John, It's a nice answer to this question, thank you for the explanation. A response arises here to the points you raise: The thinker arises with the thought. No thought, no thinker. Impermanence is that each thought arises in an instant, each thinker of each moment is a different thought construct. Selflessness is no inherent self-nature to any thought, any thing, or any moment, nor the negation of any self-nature. Suffering is the inevitable friction inherent in the process of life, as structures tend to maintain and continue themselves against "opposing forces" or whatever "discontinues" the structure. Clarity of the nature of this suffering is the release of the suffering -- there are no independent structures, and seeing the universality of "discontinuity" reveals this ... From this point of view, "progress" can only be an aspect of the suffering, the tendency to want to build, want to evolve ... This seems a natural tendency to human beings, and if we try to fight against our own meaning-making, we are in self-contradiction. However, for me, trancendence is indeed beyond human meaning-making. Where "my" reading of meaning into events ceases, there is no progress nor suffering, no investment, and the acausal interdependent and unsplit reality is evident -- without requiring an observer there, to which it is to be evident, nor a thought about it, with which a thinker would arise. So, transcendence involves the end of meaning-making, and release from any sense of continuing self as meaning-maker, no investment in the meanings that have been construed. "Now", if meaning-making occurs, it is taken as is, as an aspect of the interdependent being, without any investment in continuity -- as present infinite interrelatedness and indifferent becoming ... Again, thanks for answering this, I feel a sense of resonance with your perspective that I don't remember feeling when I first proposed the question. Namaste. Dan >Dear friends, >Please allow me to place an important correction to our website: ><< >question I cannot regard 'progress' as a 'fourth seal' in the way you >suggest, because I see progress as the illusory grasping of an imagination >that is seeking to have an ongoing position which it does not have. I have >no problem with constructing a scheme for evaluating 'becoming' in terms of >'progress', as long as this is seen for what it is: a conceptual exercise, >a thought-based activity. >answer In our view, the aforegoing is true also for the other three signs >of being experienced by Buddhists: impermanence, selflessness and >suffering. What Advayavada seeks to teach is that, in addition to this, >what we experience as 'progress' is that which follows the otherwise >indifferent pattern and direction in which overall existence advances over >time. It is therefore that we say that progress (pratipada, patipada) is >the fourth sign of being. The Advayavadin experiences pratitya-samutpada, >the infinite relatedness and 'indifferent becoming' of existence, as >impermanence, selflessness, suffering and progress, and believes that as we >advance along the Path our understanding of these shall deepen and finally >climax into the fullest realization of the wonders of being. > >> >Thank you. >Kind regards, >John Willemsens. >................... >Advayavada Buddhism Infocenter - Amsterdam >visit: www.euronet.nl/~advaya/sitemap.htm > > > > >/join > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, >perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and >subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not >different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the >nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. >It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the >Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of >Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome >all to a. > >To from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at > www., and select the User Center link from > the menu bar > on the left. This menu will also let you change your > subscription > between digest and normal mode. > > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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