Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 I tend toward the latter, as it is backed up by my experience. "What you resist, persists." Some indulgence is beneficial. ====== And of course 'some' is open to different interpretations and requirements. Asceticism or indulgence are both polarities that may lead to centering. My own view is very simple I have little concern with what does not concern me. There is on this forum a certain expectation and direction. I have no concern over this because it is helpful and part of a fruitful process. ====== My first experience of my sexual orientation was in a Shamanic time travel dream, age 9.. as I had no educational background on alternate forms of expression, so it was traumatic to think my adult self had gone insane.. some education would have been beneficial, in hindsight.. but I look for perfection in what Is. ===== I would not be too concerned about insanity. We have concensus insanity. New Age fluffy cloud insanity and Lobster insanity. Perfection in what is can be a very profound viewpoint. For most of us we have to become aware of a 'Higher Perfection'. In other words that everything though perfect (if we can understand and experience its perfection) it also represents or underlies an archetype of greater perfection. The reason for this is quite simple. Acceptance (which is also a requirement) is not the same as aquiesence. Acceptance is part of a process of change. So we make choices about what needs changing and what does not (few of say - it is perfect - no need for change). This is why some people need to be aware that excluding certain forms of expression is not part of a spiritual process but to do with personal trauma and restrictions. That is OK, we all have our hang ups but we have to have the integrity and honesty to be aware of them. ============= BTW, thank you for the candida page. I have been dealing with it, for the past several months. It was gone for years, then it came back.. probably something I ate.. Karma vampire. Since I did the page, no more sugar cravings! What a relief! Blessings.. ========= :-) Good news. Lobster eXXo- "eXXo welcomes children, vampyres, snakes, duelists and Enlightened Beings" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 ========== Yes. I sometimes write emails sometimes that rant. I set them aside and come back a day later, when I am calmer, and edit them generously so they end up centered. Of course, what looks centered, to me, appears polarized, to others.. because they have different boundaries. ======== Hi Angelique, everyone :-) I do the same it is a good policy . . . Boundaries are not a part of The Center. An email will sound the same from The Center whoever the source. If it comes from us, it will very much be flavoured by our peculiarities. ========== That's the funny thing. You cannot locate the center until you know where the edges are.. I have gone to a lot of extremes, to stretch my boundaries.. to get "bigger", along the process of integrating "all that Is." After every stretch, I come back to a new center. My center is so far off the beaten path that it appears very extreme to many people.. and yet, it also has its own Asceticism. ========= Going to the edges and extremes of self makes one 'bigger' and off center. Moving to the center makes one smaller and centered. Still on the right path? There is no wrong path? ======= There is something I want.. but it is not really for myself. I want an abandoned 400 room hotel in a ghost town in the rain forest of the central coast BC. It was the location of the dream I had, when I was 9 years old. It is where my future lies. I am sailing up to see it again, in June. Wanna come along? ======= For myself I would love to come along. However I am busy locating dreams. Thanks for the offer and good luck. ========= >My own view is very simple >I have little concern with what does not >concern me. Heh. You are the one who made the crucifixion joke, but nobody chastised you for it.. so, it does not concern you. ====== Was it a joke? Perhaps I was being serious. Incidentally the offer still stands anyone who requires crucifixion (or burning) or any devils who need a little love and forgiveness, Lobster is your crustacean. We all seem to drag ourselves to a position. For example mad Lobster or bad witch and then defend the position. To quote Jennifer Rabbit: 'I am not bad, I was just drawn that way' Who does all the colouring? Let something go and it is soon erased . . . ========= In one of the "Hitch hiker's guide to the Galaxy" books, Douglas Addams refers to a technique of invisibility called a "somebody else's problem" field. I have heard of this idea actually being used in some magical circles. ===== LOL The only 'serious' magical book on invisibility I have come across suggested a training program that required long periods of sitting in cupboards (yes really) ;-) ======= It is a manifestation of a very human tendency to tune out things that are "not my problem." Like how American TV has no news of international events, unless it involves Americans. Or like how Unions won't deal with anything that is the work of another union. Like how this list has no interest in the issue of censorship. Totally invisible behind a "somebody else's problem" field. Well, we all have to prioritise. === Yes indeed my priority is to not be concerned about what effectively I have no sphere of influence over and choose not to be involved with. For example your union affiliations. Just as I choose to be effective and transformative over those areas I am concerned and involved with. ==== >According to logotherapy, meaning can be discovered by three ways: "(1) by >creating a work or doing a deed; (2) by experiencing something or >encountering someone; and (3) by the attitude we take toward unavoidable >suffering," he wrote. ==== Interesting. Some Vedanta, Buddhist and Taoist philosophies would probably affirm the idea of a 'meaningless', 'empty' universe. In other words the idea of 'meaning' (as described) is seen to be an assumption and need. This is a different emphasis to the Judeo-Christian model. Meaning is seen as an arising. In a condition where such arisings are not directed to a goal, influenced by meeting people or situations or suffering this is considered residing in the Tao, Enlightenment or mahamudra/dzogchen. Far from being empty of meaning, it is a more fulfilling way of existing. Is this the same as a condition that ends? ============ Bliss, was not fulfillment. Having no beliefs, made my life meaningless. Fulfillment came, in coming back to Earth, back into duality, rolling up my sleeves and going back to doing the work I love. Teaching, healing, activism. Service to other. There is no other, and no-one is truly in need.. but they believe that they are, they experience separation.. I serve, by accepting that, and giving them what they ask for, as best I can. Sometimes, they do not know what they are asking. Someone said, that every act is either love, or a cry for love.. =========== Bliss is not fulfillment. Bliss is just another arising. Any recognizable spiritual state' that begins or ends is an arising . . . ======== >This is why some people need to be Sigh.. so it comes back to what "some people need". Judgments. The phrase, "some people" reminds me of Wim and his "So and So". ========== My use of language (in my judgement) might be better phrased as 'People might choose to recognise a need' of course if some people are perfect (in their judgement) then they have no need to avoid judgements about herself or others . . . What I clearly need is no fear of making judgements (in my judgement). Yes Angelique I do judge you and you judge this as a judgement. Why the sigh? Is it because judgement is avoidable? Undesirable? Bad? In whose judgement? ========= >That is OK, we all have our hang ups but >we have to have the integrity and honesty to be aware of >them. yup. >eXXo- >"eXXo welcomes children, >vampyres, snakes, duelists >and Enlightened Beings" Also, perverts, heretics, Christian matrons, and motherf**king S.O.B.'s .. Blessings.. =========== Indeed . Angelique and Jerry are now 'moderators' of eXXo Would Harsha and/or Gloria be able to join - as moderators of course - to spread the light? Lobster eXXo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 At 08:00 AM 4/24/01, you wrote: > Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:15:28 -0700 > Lobster <lobster >perfection in what Is > >I tend toward the latter, as it is backed up by my experience. "What you >resist, persists." Some indulgence is beneficial. > >====== > >And of course 'some' is open to different >interpretations and requirements. >Asceticism or indulgence are both polarities >that may lead to centering. Yes. I sometimes write emails sometimes that rant. I set them aside and come back a day later, when I am calmer, and edit them generously so they end up centered. Of course, what looks centered, to me, appears polarized, to others.. because they have different boundaries. That's the funny thing. You cannot locate the center until you know where the edges are.. I have gone to a lot of extremes, to stretch my boundaries.. to get "bigger", along the process of integrating "all that Is." After every stretch, I come back to a new center. My center is so far off the beaten path that it appears very extreme to many people.. and yet, it also has its own Asceticism. I don't own a house, or a car. I don't have an RRSP, mutual funds, life insurance, a credit card or a regular source of income. I have no savings, to speak of, and no schedule. I don't want any of these things.. I'm a net-geek Guru-hermit. druid often wants to buy me gifts, but I am so un materialistic he has a very hard time finding something that I want. There is something I want.. but it is not really for myself. I want an abandoned 400 room hotel in a ghost town in the rain forest of the central coast BC. It was the location of the dream I had, when I was 9 years old. It is where my future lies. I am sailing up to see it again, in June. Wanna come along? The price tag for it, with some other buildings thrown in, is 5 million cdn. I called the owner up, and told him what I wanted it for. A healing center, and meditation retreat. He asked if I was crazy. I told him, "Yes. Batsh*t crazy. I'd have to be, wouldn't I?" The next night, he called me up, and told me that if I could raise the 5 million purchase price, he would refund it back to me, as an investment in the project. He is crazy, too. Everyone in the ghost town, told me so. His reasoning is that fixing the building up will cost millions, so there is no point in giving the building to anyone who cannot afford to repair it. In the dream, we had only fixed up a few rooms of it.. the rest, were being cleaned up, as they were needed. As the community grew. Raising the money, is not up to me.. Goddess gave me the dream, She will provide the $$. Somewhere, there is a crazy millionaire looking to invest in a dream... or maybe, a million crazy people, looking to invest $5. >My own view is very simple >I have little concern with what does not >concern me. Heh. You are the one who made the crucifixion joke, but nobody chastised you for it.. so, it does not concern you. In one of the "Hitch hiker's guide to the Galaxy" books, Douglas Addams refers to a technique of invisibility called a "somebody else's problem" field. I have heard of this idea actually being used in some magical circles. It is a manifestation of a very human tendency to tune out things that are "not my problem." Like how American TV has no news of international events, unless it involves Americans. Or like how Unions won't deal with anything that is the work of another union. Like how this list has no interest in the issue of censorship. Totally invisible behind a "somebody else's problem" field. Well, we all have to prioritise. >There is on this forum a certain >expectation and direction. >I have no concern over this >because it is helpful and part >of a fruitful process. >====== You have no concern over it, because you pay little attention to it, and get away with doing so.. > My first experience of my sexual orientation was in a Shamanic time >travel dream, age 9.. as I had no educational background on alternate forms >of expression, so it was traumatic to think my adult self had gone insane.. >some education would have been beneficial, in hindsight.. but I look for >perfection in what Is. > >===== > >I would not be too concerned about insanity. I am not, anymore.. I make no claims to being sane.. I am batsh*t crazy.. but at age 9, I felt differently. >We have concensus insanity. New Age >fluffy cloud insanity and Lobster insanity. >Perfection in what is can be a very profound >viewpoint. >For most of us we have to become aware >of a 'Higher Perfection'. In other words >that everything though perfect (if we can understand >and experience its perfection) it also represents >or underlies an archetype of greater perfection. >The reason for this is quite simple. >Acceptance (which is also a requirement) is not >the same as aquiesence. >Acceptance is part of a process of change. >So we make choices about what needs changing >and what does not (few of say >- it is perfect - no need for change). Exactly so. The perfection lies in how events motivated me to pursue certain goals. Lately I am drawn to the writings of Victor Frankl. He is a world famous author and psychiatrist who became enlightened in a Nazi concentration camp, when he realized that no matter what the Nazis did to his body, they could not restrict his mind. What strange perfection, that out of the horrors of Auschwitz, such a great spirit could be born. He wrote a book, "Man's search for meaning".. http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/frankl/frankl.html >During and partly because of his suffering in concentration camps, Frankl >developed a revolutionary approach to psychotherapy known as logotherapy. > >At the core of his theory is the belief that humanity's primary >motivational force is the search for meaning, and the work of the >logotherapist centers on helping the patient find personal meaning in >life, however dismal the circumstances may be. > >Frankl's teachings have been described as the Third Vienna School of >Psychotherapy, after that of Sigmund Freud and Alfred Adler. > >In "Man's Search for Meaning," which has sold approximately nine million >copies worldwide and been translated into twenty-three languages. The >Library of Congress called the book one of the ten most influential books >of the twentieth century. Frankl said: "There is nothing in the world, I >venture to say, that would so effectively help one to survive even the >worst conditions as the knowledge that there is a meaning in one's life." > >According to logotherapy, meaning can be discovered by three ways: "(1) by >creating a work or doing a deed; (2) by experiencing something or >encountering someone; and (3) by the attitude we take toward unavoidable >suffering," he wrote. > >"We must never forget that we may also find meaning in life even when >confronted with a hopeless situation," he insisted, a theory he gradually >developed as a concentration camp survivor. > >"As such, I also bear witness to the unexpected extent to which man is >capable of defying and braving even the worst conditions conceivable," he >wrote. I have been at that high vibration of believing in nothing, perfect love and perfect bliss, perfection in everything and nothing to do, nothing needing any change. I was happy, blissed out and content to do nothing, sit on my ass under the Boddhi tree blissing out for the rest of my life. I had no motivation to do anything. Nothing to do, nothing to fix. My lists called to me to return to them. My slaves called to me to touch them and teach them. I knew that they did not need me, I could see Goddess in them and knew they truly needed nothing.. their belief in need was an illusion. Nothing to do, nothing to fix. But they did not know it. They called out to me, with their belief that they needed me.. until finally, my blissful inaction started to feel .. meaningless. A waste of a perfectly good body. I started to feel like perhaps, sitting on my ass being a Buddha under the metaphorical boddhi tree, was not why I had chosen to be born. I was back to where I had been, before I was born.. in non-duality. If that was all I wanted, why incarnate? Usually I think of selfishness as a positive antidote to "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".. I examine my selfishness to discover my true motivations and avoid the perils of judgment about "what someone else needs".. but this vibration of bliss began to feel like the worst kind of selfish self centeredness. Bliss, was not fulfillment. Having no beliefs, made my life meaningless. Fulfillment came, in coming back to Earth, back into duality, rolling up my sleeves and going back to doing the work I love. Teaching, healing, activism. Service to other. There is no other, and no-one is truly in need.. but they believe that they are, they experience separation.. I serve, by accepting that, and giving them what they ask for, as best I can. Sometimes, they do not know what they are asking. Someone said, that every act is either love, or a cry for love.. >This is why some people need to be Sigh.. so it comes back to what "some people need". Judgments. The phrase, "some people" reminds me of Wim and his "So and So". I wonder if Wim, (who so loves to dissect words and expressions to uncover their hidden meaning) being a Dutchman, knows that in North American euphemisms, "So and So", is a ladylike way of saying "motherf**king son of a bitch", or something similar.. "Pompous idiot", maybe. Or "old rice bag." : ) It is an expression that previously, I have only heard used by Christian matrons who were pissed off enough to want to call someone bad names, but were too stuck in the repressed prison of being ladylike to actually swear. Of course, in deference to the Christian matrons on this list, I have used ** so that I am not actually swearing, either. So, I translate: This is why some Oeidipus S.O.B.'s need to be >aware that excluding certain forms of expression >is not part of a spiritual process >but to do with personal trauma and restrictions. I agree.. <the rest of my comments snipped so as not to offend Christian matrons, and Oeidipus S.O.B.'s> >That is OK, we all have our hang ups but >we have to have the integrity and honesty to be aware of >them. yup. >eXXo- >"eXXo welcomes children, >vampyres, snakes, duelists >and Enlightened Beings" Also, perverts, heretics, Christian matrons, and motherf**king S.O.B.'s .. Blessings.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shaman, Psychic, Empath, Healer www.fire-serpent.org/healing/ Fire Serpent Tantra www.fire-serpent.com Kundalini Gateway www.Kundalini-gateway.org Personal website www.domin8rex.com ================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Dear Angelique, I saw that!! :-) No, I did not know that... But I did stop the S&S practice... > Sigh.. so it comes back to what "some people need". Judgments. > > The phrase, "some people" reminds me of Wim and his "So and So". > > I wonder if Wim, (who so loves to dissect words and expressions to > uncover their hidden meaning) being a Dutchman, knows that in North > American euphemisms, "So and So", is a ladylike way of saying > "motherf**king son of a bitch", or something similar.. "Pompous idiot", > maybe. Or "old rice bag." : ) > It is an expression that previously, I have only heard used by > Christian matrons who were pissed off enough to want to call someone bad > names, but were too stuck in the repressed prison of being ladylike to > actually swear. Of course, in deference to the Christian matrons on this > list, I have used ** so that I am not actually swearing, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 Namaste All, Mystress Angelique wrote:->perfection in what Is > > > >I tend toward the latter, as it is backed up by my experience. "What you > >resist, persists." Some indulgence is beneficial. > > > >====== > > > >And of course 'some' is open to different > >interpretations and requirements. > >Asceticism or indulgence are both polarities > >that may lead to centering.< Namaste, It is my understanding of the vedanta that we should rise above desires, as there is no way of eliminating them with indulgence. It is just like pouring oil on the flames. There used to be a punishment in the middle east were people were sentenced to death by indulgence. They were kept in a cage until their own indulgences killed them. This attitude is a result of the preoccuption with experiences, which a lot of K is all about. A preoccupation with the cleansing process instead of what is being cleansed. The polarities of ascetism and indulgence can be translated as bondage and freedom/moksha. This really is difficult to appreciate if one doesn't understand nirguna and believes that saguna is the ultimate. The whole purpose of life is to render the tendencies or samskaras to burnt seeds, whence they can never regenerate. Watering them even a little only keeps them alive. This difference in philosophies isn't strange, Nisargadatta Maharaj ventures that only one in ten million can really understand non-dualism even intellectually. That is the reason for dvaita, visishtadvaita and advaita, something for all. This list is based on Ramana, which is advaita. Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony. > ================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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